Cleanest Tour de France in Years and Cadel wins...

[chinggis77]

Most commentators and experts are saying that all the evidence points to this being the most clean Tour de France in years. Low positive tests, no unbelievable superhuman/effortless efforts (e.g. Landis), lots of pain evident from all the cyclists.

Eg, see: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/2011-tour-de-france-the-cleanest-in-recent-years

Lo and behold Cadel finally wins one.

Cadel has long been widely believed to be a clean rider. He has campaigned long and hard against performance enhancing drugs himself as did his former coach to whom he dedicated his win. He also has the genetics to back up his status as an elite rider having done tests as a youngster at AIS by the same guy who tested Armstrong indicating he has better athletic/cardio/endurance traits than Armstrong. If anyone is clean - he is.

In past years he has lost out to guys like Contador (failed test), Armstrong (so much circumstancial evidence of use) etc. In fact of all the previous winners only Sastre (who beat Evans into second) has maintained a clean aura.

All through this Cadel copped criticism from many that he was not an attacking rider and wasn't champion material.

I think we are now seeing that Cadel is probably the true champion (Sastre also). He wasn't as attacking because he wasn't on what everyone else was on. He never had much support in the mountains as his teammates were not allowed to get on the gear (Sastre the exception as the Schlecks were his teammates).

Whilst nothing can be certain in the world of professional cycling where cyclists can be years ahead of testers, but Evan's history, the fact he tested as an exceptional athlete when young (i.e. better than Armstrong) and his squeaky clean record allude to the probable fact that he may have been the leading clean rider in multiple tours, not just the one he just won.

Kudos to Cadel. So glad that he now gets recognition and the critics are silenced. He is a true champion.

Really hope Andy Schleck wins one also as he deserves it. Cheater Contador stole one of him when he gained 39secs when Andy's chain slipped (going against Tour convention) - the time he won the tour by over Andy.

 

[Sasquatch]

Cheater Contador stole one of him when he gained 39secs when Andy's chain slipped (going against Tour convention) - the time he won the tour by over Andy.

Contador did nothing wrong. Why don't people realise that by now?

That incident was RIDER error, not MECHANICAL error. Andy's chain came off because he shifted gears on a steep climb.

If you reward rider error you may as well not compete and do it for fun.

 

[Surkin]

Subscribble.

This is going to be good.

 

[Caesar]

It's naive to think there is such thing as a clean Tour.

I think if you are pinning your hopes on Evans being a clean winner of a clean race then you're being a bit unrealistic. I wouldn't be surprised if Evans was caught doping, same as I wouldn't be surprised if anyone else on the circuit was either. It's just that prevalent.

To quote Bernard Kohl, Evans' former teammate:

I was tested 200 times during my career, and 100 times I had drugs in my body. I was caught, but 99 other times, I wasn’t. Riders think they can get away with doping because most of the time they do. Even if there is a new test for blood doping, I’m not even sure it will scare riders into stopping. The problem is just that bad.

 

[Sasquatch]

As well as Kohl, Zabel and Riis and Landis are good examples too.

Zabel and Riis - doped their entire careers - never got caught.

Landis - he was on HGH, EPO and everything at the 2006 Tour de France. He got tested and didn't turn a positive test for those things. The one thing he didn't take at the Tour in 2006 was Testosterone - yet he tested positive for testosterone. Go figure.

All his tests should have come positive for EPO and HGH but instead one was positive for testosterone.

 

[Whelan_45]

It's naive to think there is such thing as a clean Tour.

To quote Bernard Kohl, Evans' former teammate:

Pretty sure he wasn't on the team long at all before he was busted. I doubt Evans and he even rode a race together.

I have a bit of faith Cadel is clean. He's a flat out bike racer, is up for the fight every day and every race. Throughout his whole career. Mountain biking days and road riding days.

I think the reports are coming out that this is one of the cleanest tours on record due to the 'negative' tests being 'more negative' than in the past. Pretty sure for it to be positive a certain threshold needs to be reached, and in the past, there have been a lot of tests showing a lot of activity, just not enough for it to be deemed a positive.

 

[Caesar]

Well whether you count Kohl as a teammate or not, Evans has had plenty of teammates suspended for doping. Heck, Alessandro Ballan and Mauro Santambrogio are both on BMC's current roster and they're both suspected cheats.

I'm not saying that Evans is a drug cheat - I guess if any of the top riders aren't, he's the most likely to be clean. Just that I'm not really inclined to assume he isn't. In my view, the chances of any particular rider in the peloton being on the juice is comfortably over 50-50.

 

[yc168]

I agree with you Caesar, the chances are over 50-50, but I highly doubt Cadel is and he totally deserves the win

 

[Whelan_45]

Well whether you count Kohl as a teammate or not, Evans has had plenty of teammates suspended for doping. Heck, Alessandro Ballan and Mauro Santambrogio are both on BMC's current roster and they're both suspected cheats.

I'm not saying that Evans is a drug cheat - I guess if any of the top riders aren't, he's the most likely to be clean. Just that I'm not really inclined to assume he isn't. In my view, the chances of any particular rider in the peloton being on the juice is comfortably over 50-50.

Yeah, you have every right to be skeptical.

I still think there are top riders who have strong principles and ethics around this issue and I'm strongly inclined to believe Cadel is one of those.

This tour just had a feel about it. Maybe it was the pain on the riders faces, or the inability of many to put in repeated attacks in the mountains. It just didn't feel like even some of the more recent tours of Rasmussen and Ricco where they were constantly attacking.

 

[Vader]

I think the reports are coming out that this is one of the cleanest tours on record due to the 'negative' tests being 'more negative' than in the past. Pretty sure for it to be positive a certain threshold needs to be reached, and in the past, there have been a lot of tests showing a lot of activity, just not enough for it to be deemed a positive.

They're also basing it on the time taken to complete the climbs (most of which were several minutes slower than the times achieved during the Armstrong years), the lack of repeated attacks and the fatigue/pain evident on the riders' faces as they reached the top.

Well whether you count Kohl as a teammate or not, Evans has had plenty of teammates suspended for doping. Heck, Alessandro Ballan and Mauro Santambrogio are both on BMC's current roster and they're both suspected cheats.

To be fair, neither are suspected of cheating while riding for BMC - their alleged cheating took place with Lampre, long before they joined BMC.

I'm not saying that Evans is a drug cheat - I guess if any of the top riders aren't, he's the most likely to be clean. Just that I'm not really inclined to assume he isn't. In my view, the chances of any particular rider in the peloton being on the juice is comfortably over 50-50.

Almost impossible to argue with this, given the sport's history.

 

[KnobHead]

We'll never never know whether Evans' is clean (unless he gets done). Has certainly got a good reputation as a non-doper, but druging in the Tour goes back to the 1930s & 1940s, when riders used to take cocaine as a stimulate.

Over the last 4 - 5 years the testing has increased along with the penalties - and it'd be strange to see someone get done during the tour, doping more likely occurs before the tour, because the testing is less regular and doping does help a rider in training (and strong training flows onto competition)

Out of all the riders, I'd reckon he's the least likely (he's also more naturally gifted than Armstrong on power / weight ratio & oxygen intake), and he comes across as extremely honest & I very much doubt he's doping - there's no dark cloud over him, either. But if he ever does those "I feel better on Swisse" commercials, that'd be a bad move, for any cyclist.

 

[lamaros]

This thread is very naive. BMC, it's riders, and the team management have not exactly got a squeaky clean record.

Cadel did well to win, and he might even be a clean rider. But to assume he surely is takes things a step too far.

 

[sblack]

This thread is very naive. BMC, it's riders, and the team management have not exactly got a squeaky clean record.

Cadel did well to win, and he might even be a clean rider. But to assume he surely is takes things a step too far.

Exactly. When he was moving teams, he could've got better money and teammates elsewhere.

 

[KnobHead]

Very few on this thread are giving Cadel the full tick on a clean ride (myself included)

It's probably going to be years till anyone can say with confidence that someone who wins le tour - and probably many top level bicycle races, is clean

 

[Cole Dammett]

I think the bans for doping need to be increased to life. And I think that anyone who has doped in the past cannot become DS or anything. 2 year bans do nothing in the scheme of things, I hate when you see dopers who have come back from their bans racing, just seems tacky given the state that the sport is in doping-wise.

Also. On Cadel. As much as I'd like to say he isn't a doper, and his performances seem to suggest that, but I feel that most of the peloton is still doping. They are years ahead of the testers. And the BMC soigneur caught with 195 doses of EPO just a few days before this years tour show that something is going on. (http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/06/news/part-time-bmc-soigneur-arrested-in-doping-investigation_180704)

 

[Papa Juggs]

I believe Cadel is as clean as Contador and the Schlecks.

You can't smear the others as cheats while thinking Evans is clean.

They've all performed around the same over the last few years.

It's pretty obvious to all but the most braindead supporters that EPO is absolutely everywhere and you'd be sitting at the back of the pack struggling to find a wheel without it.

 

[Hornberger]

I believe Cadel is as clean as Contador and the Schlecks.

Contador and Schlecks form was no where near as good as it been it last couple of years. Are they also riding cleaner than in the past?

 

[matty_p]

Really hope Andy Schleck wins one also as he deserves it. Cheater Contador stole one of him when he gained 39secs when Andy's chain slipped (going against Tour convention) - the time he won the tour by over Andy.

Contador was 45sec up after the first TT, so he wins regardless of chaingate. Andy again demonstrated he needs to improve his TT if he wants to win a GT.

Well done Cadel.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

It's pretty obvious to all but the most braindead supporters that EPO is absolutely everywhere and you'd be sitting at the back of the pack struggling to find a wheel without it.

Not as obvious as it used to be. There were not the extra-terrestial performances we have seen in the past.

Most of the guys who got up the road at some point were let go tactically rather than riding off anyone's wheels.

Most of the contenders seemed to doubt their own ability to make any move stick and/or recover from it if negated.

I think we also saw a bit of second-guessing by those who may have backed off whatever they were doing before but didn't know what the others were up to. In hindsight some of them may have tried a few moves knowing now that most others were in the same boat.

It was also clear the super-domestiques are not what they used to be.
No-one had anyone putting the hurt on in the high mountains.
Think back to US-Postal days and tell me things are not cleaner now.

We can never say 100% clean because we can never know.

 

[sblack]

Contador and Schlecks form was no where near as good as it been it last couple of years. Are they also riding cleaner than in the past?

Contadors form in the Giro was phenomenal.

 

[Hornberger]

Contadors form in the Giro was phenomenal.

Or was it just a very weak field?