List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[soreplums]

Tom Highmore as a DFA and Ethan Phillips from Port Melbourne are two tall defensive options we should consider.

Saints pretty much promised Phillips A spot last year and then left him high and dry

 

[localfootylegend23]

No, if you read what I said the answer was using a bit of common sense, like when a guy with a massive concussion history gets smashed in the jaw, when he wasn't expecting it, you should probably expect a concussion, no?

It's like a guy who constantly tears his hamstring is running full speed then pulls up holding his hamstring and grimacing... sometimes common sense is right ?

"but but but y-you can't a-argue with a doctor !!" Appeal to authority fallacy, many people in this forum use it. "A doctor said it so it's true and if you argue you have no idea".

Let it go mate nobody cares

 

[Jen2310]

Getting phillips, you'd have go through the draft. That that it would be an issue, he'd be around the rookie draft.
Wonder how he would feel about reuniting with his previous competition from williamstown, Charlie Dean haha

 

[brysie]

No. My point is that these positions have some desirable skills.

A punter - they can kick. That’s a big advantage they have over say a basketballer.

A running back - has bulk. There’s potential for an inside midfielder.

A wide receiver - smaller and nibble. Small forward potential.

We’re so close-minded about recruits and have an obsession with Gaelic football and basketball rather than looking side ways.

A punter's advantage over a basketballer is hardly relevant to a punter's ability relative to someone who has grown up playing footy.

Bulk doesn't equate to the ability to win the ball, make a split second decision whether to handball, kick or hold the ball and, if handballing or kicking, execute the skill. A running back is handed the ball and required to obtain as much yardage as possible.

The average height for a wide receiver is 6'1 (Average Height of NFL Players in 2023 (By Position)). That's nearly the height of someone like Pendlebury. Wide receivers typically run to a spot and are required to catch passes made by a quarterback; small forwards are typically required to read a ball off hands and have the ability to crumb or win a ball on the ground.

Yet another absolutism from you - "we're so close-minded about recruits". Yet the AFL ran a US Combine between 2012 and 2017 that required 5 clubs to nominate an athlete whose athletic attributes and skills were tested, including a handballing and kicking drill. If the talent was there clubs would allocate greater resources to finding and exploiting that talent.

I'm not against broadening our recruiting horizons, however people need to maintain a reasonable perspective.

Some of the best footy players I've coached or seen came from soccer in their early teen years. These players had a different tactical understanding to players who had grown up playing footy only, were a different body shape and moved differently.

 

[brysie]

Their skill might be better than you’d expect if they have basketball and soccer backgrounds.

I agree with this for the most part.

Their skills are much more transferable and players from basketball and soccer are required to have and continually utilise a multi-faceted skillset throughout the duration of the game, rather than executing a specific skill as part of a play which then resets or restarts depending on the outcome of the play.

 

[neilk]

I agree with this for the most part.

Their skills are much more transferable and players from basketball and soccer are required to have and continually utilise a multi-faceted skillset throughout the duration of the game, rather than executing a specific skill as part of a play which then resets or restarts depending on the outcome of the play.

Lachie Keeffe came from a soccer background.

 

[JuniorB]

A punter's advantage over a basketballer is hardly relevant to a punter's ability relative to someone who has grown up playing footy.

Bulk doesn't equate to the ability to win the ball, make a split second decision whether to handball, kick or hold the ball and, if handballing or kicking, execute the skill. A running back is handed the ball and required to obtain as much yardage as possible.

The average height for a wide receiver is 6'1 (Average Height of NFL Players in 2023 (By Position)). That's nearly the height of someone like Pendlebury. Wide receivers typically run to a spot and are required to catch passes made by a quarterback; small forwards are typically required to read a ball off hands and have the ability to crumb or win a ball on the ground.

Yet another absolutism from you - "we're so close-minded about recruits". Yet the AFL ran a US Combine between 2012 and 2017 that required 5 clubs to nominate an athlete whose athletic attributes and skills were tested, including a handballing and kicking drill. If the talent was there clubs would allocate greater resources to finding and exploiting that talent.

I'm not against broadening our recruiting horizons, however people need to maintain a reasonable perspective.

Some of the best footy players I've coached or seen came from soccer in their early teen years. These players had a different tactical understanding to players who had grown up playing footy only, were a different body shape and moved differently.

Another point about wide receivers is that they train to run specific timed patterns to get to a spot where the QB will pass the ball.
A tight end might be a more suitable type of gridiron player for AFL, because they have to do it all - block, rush and catch passes.
The latter can happen if the wide receivers aren't open and the QB is looking to offload the ball before being sacked, so tight ends need to adapt quickly.
And they tend to be big guys.

 

[brysie]

Lachie Keeffe came from a soccer background.

Brad Green from Melbourne too - gun cricketer (Aus U15s) and trialed with Man Utd.

 

[brysie]

Another point about wide receivers is that they train to run specific timed patterns to get to a spot where the QB will pass the ball.
A tight end might be a more suitable type of gridiron player for AFL, because they have to do it all - block, rush and catch passes.
The latter can happen if the wide receivers aren't open and the QB is looking to offload the ball before being sacked, so tight ends need to adapt quickly.
And they tend to be big guys.

The size and athleticism of guys like Kelce, Andrews, Kittle etc. is phenomenal.

 

[JuniorB]

The size and athleticism of guys like Kelce, Andrews, Kittle etc. is phenomenal.

One of the greatest ever TEs, Tony Gonzalez, came from a basketball background.
Basketball as a sport teaches all around awareness & the need for fast decision making.
Great skills for AFL players too.

 

[KinderSmock]

Lachie Keeffe came from a soccer background.

More recently, Josh Rachelle came from one. Turned down a place at Melbourne City’s Academy. Jacob Konstanty, the WWE star who injured Mills, converted, too and given the popularity of junior soccer in Gen Z, I’d imagine there are more who are currently playing or will be on lists.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Another point about wide receivers is that they train to run specific timed patterns to get to a spot where the QB will pass the ball.
A tight end might be a more suitable type of gridiron player for AFL, because they have to do it all - block, rush and catch passes.
The latter can happen if the wide receivers aren't open and the QB is looking to offload the ball before being sacked, so tight ends need to adapt quickly.
And they tend to be big guys.

TEs do have to be multi-skilled, no doubt, but as sideswipe pointed out, they just don’t touch the ball enough. The best TEs in the league might get the ball passed successfully to them 5 times per game.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

One of the greatest ever TEs, Tony Gonzalez, came from a basketball background.
Basketball as a sport teaches all around awareness & the need for fast decision making.
Great skills for AFL players too.

So did Jimmy Graham and Antonio Gates.

 

[JuniorB]

TEs do have to be multi-skilled, no doubt, but as sideswipe pointed out, they just don’t touch the ball enough. The best TEs in the league might get the ball passed successfully to them 5 times per game.

I don't disagree, it's more that TEs have a skillset more suited to what is required for AFL than other positions.

 

[sr36]

I don't disagree, it's more that TEs have a skillset more suited to what is required for AFL than other positions.

I'd say quarterbacks are the ones you'd be most inclined to look at. Obviously incredibly skilled, so you'd give them a good chance of developing the skills. Plus unlike lots of other posiitons they have to have a wide field view and have to make a lot of decisions on the fly when plans haven't opened things up the way intended.

 

[KinderSmock]

I'd say quarterbacks are the ones you'd be most inclined to look at. Obviously incredibly skilled, so you'd give them a good chance of developing the skills. Plus unlike lots of other posiitons they have to have a wide field view and have to make a lot of decisions on the fly when plans haven't opened things up the way intended.

Quarterbacks need good awareness.

TEs do have to be multi-skilled, no doubt, but as sideswipe pointed out, they just don’t touch the ball enough. The best TEs in the league might get the ball passed successfully to them 5 times per game.

Is that an issue they're not touching it enough? Those guys are training hard. College football practice is not light, neither is the NFL. It's all relative to the sport and I don't think not touching it enough is sufficient reason not to recruit if they have the talent.

 

[manicpie]

With the Irish, I think we've made the mistake of targeting kpps. Those skills are more contested and AFL specific. Whereas most of the success stories have been running half backs. Defensive positioning and offensive running patterns and connections transfer more easily than the contested parts of AFL..

I hate it when you're right

 

[manicpie]

One of the greatest ever TEs, Tony Gonzalez, came from a basketball background.
Basketball as a sport teaches all around awareness & the need for fast decision making.
Great skills for AFL players too.

 

[sr36]

Is that an issue they're not touching it enough? Those guys are training hard. College football practice is not light, neither is the NFL. It's all relative to the sport and I don't think not touching it enough is sufficient reason not to recruit if they have the talent.

The issue with most NFL roles is that you don't know what AFL talent they have. Sure there are heaps of outstanding athletes, but they haven't got AFL skills yet and game sense and awareness is also unknown.

 

[saverio36]

This is fun to talk about but we couldn’t even turn Will Kelly

20

Will Kelly

Age

24

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

- very athletic, grew up playing the game, 5 years in an elite system (maybe even call it 7 years of semi-elite with the last few years of juniors) into a really successful AFL player.

How many years of US Combines to produce one Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

? And you can almost guarantee that if he was “only” 6 foot 6 he wouldn’t have made it.

 

[KinderSmock]

This is fun to talk about but we couldn’t even turn Will Kelly- very athletic, grew up playing the game, 5 years in an elite system (maybe even call it 7 years of semi-elite with the last few years of juniors) into a really successful AFL player.

How many years of US Combines to produce one Mason Cox? And you can almost guarantee that if he was “only” 6 foot 6 he wouldn’t have made it.

The AFL sucks at attracting international talent beyond Ireland. Right plan of attack and there's talent out there.

You're always going to get busts in the case of Will Kelly. You see that across every major sporting league in the world.

 

[VinnieB]

We could be considering Sam Hayes from Port. He was delisted today. 205cm player, ruck, played four games ...

Mud wrestle with Frampton would be entertaining.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

The AFL sucks at attracting international talent beyond Ireland. Right plan of attack and there's talent out there.

You're always going to get busts in the case of Will Kelly. You see that across every major sporting league in the world.

What's the big attraction to athletes in other sports from other countries playing footy? It's just a novelty.

Focus on the talent we already have here and if a few from other sports elsewhere make a successful crossover, great. If not, big deal?

 

[Bianconeri]

The AFL sucks at attracting international talent beyond Ireland. Right plan of attack and there's talent out there.

You're always going to get busts in the case of Will Kelly. You see that across every major sporting league in the world.

2 category b rookie list spots on each list aren’t enough to attract and develop international talent. Cat Bs should be increased to 6 imo.

 

[saverio36]

The AFL sucks at attracting international talent beyond Ireland. Right plan of attack and there's talent out there.

Yeah but what’s the point?

If we manage to turn some Latvian wrestler into a decent forward pocket- what does that achieve?

I’d argue AFL money is far better spent on reducing registration costs for juniors, further promotion of AFL to recent migrant communities, CTE research, getting people actually interested in AFL in GWS and GC, getting Tassie in and viable… international players would be about 26th on my list of priorities!

That said I absolutely love the Mason Cox story and found him becoming a premiership player was just incredible.