List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Bussie]

If we got Khamis I think we'd use him as an intercept defender. Looks a good player.

Crikey, bit excited after three games aren't we?

 

[sr36]

That no club has ever paid as much on the trade table for proven performers or for potentials prior and it appears that no club has paid as much since the Treloar deal, it says that we definitely paid overs for his services

There's been a lot who have gone for that rate.

What did we get for Beams?
Essendon paid almost an identical price for Shiel who was a lot older and a similar player.

A fair few have gone for really early picks. Weller went for pick 2.

What do you think youd have to add to pick 7 to turn it into pick 2 and 30? A future first at the least. Two years ago, if we had pick 7, people would have applauded unanimously if we traded it and our future first for pick 2 alone to draft Logan Mcdonald, let alone getting a second round pick back and for some reason it wouldn't have been viewed as the same trade price that we paid for Treloar.

So whilst we probably paid a bit over for Treloar, it really wasn't that much. An AFL 21 year old line breaking high possession mid is worth more than pick 7. Maybe not as much as the difference between pick 7 and pick 30, but not that much off it.

 

[ZEV]

That no club has ever paid as much on the trade table for proven performers or for potentials prior and it appears that no club has paid as much since the Treloar deal, it says that we definitely paid overs for his services.

Shiel and Kelly?

 

[Quicky]

Crikey, bit excited after three games aren't we?

Is saying someone looks a good player too excitable?

 

[Jasper84]

There's been a lot who have gone for that rate.

What did we get for Beams?
Essendon paid almost an identical price for Shiel who was a lot older and a similar player.

A fair few have gone for really early picks. Weller went for pick 2.

What do you think youd have to add to pick 7 to turn it into pick 2 and 30? A future first at the least. Two years ago, if we had pick 7, people would have applauded unanimously if we traded it and our future first for pick 2 alone to draft Logan Mcdonald, let alone getting a second round pick back and for some reason it wouldn't have been viewed as the same trade price that we paid for Treloar.

So whilst we probably paid a bit over for Treloar, it really wasn't that much. An AFL 21 year old line breaking high possession mid is worth more than pick 7. Maybe not as much as the difference between pick 7 and pick 30, but not that much off it.

Treloar trade was valued at 3300 points
Shiel trade was valued at 3000 points and he was coming off All Australian the year prior.

The issue isn't who we could have drafted with 2x pick 7. It's who we could have traded them for. 2015 the same time as Cloke fell off the cliff, Charlie Dixon went to Port for pick 10. 2016 we could have had Mitchell (14) with picks coming back. Or the one that really hurts Prestia (6) and (24) which could have been on traded for Steele (27).

Instead of trying to win an arms race with Richmond, in the space of two years we could have had both our kpf and midfield issues sorted.

 

[soreplums]

Treloar handballs inside to WHE instead of kicking it to McGovern and we win 2018.

if that cost us 2x pick 7’s then I’d take it every day of the week and we wouldn’t be having this discussion

 

[loki04]

Treloar handballs inside to WHE instead of kicking it to McGovern and we win 2018.

if that cost us 2x pick 7’s then I’d take it every day of the week and we wouldn’t be having this discussion

How do you know those 2 players taken at 7 don’t also allow us to win it and also leave us in a better list position?

 

[sr36]

Treloar trade was valued at 3300 points
Shiel trade was valued at 3000 points and he was coming off All Australian the year prior.

The issue isn't who we could have drafted with 2x pick 7. It's who we could have traded them for. 2015 the same time as Cloke fell off the cliff, Charlie Dixon went to Port for pick 10. 2016 we could have had Mitchell (14) with picks coming back. Or the one that really hurts Prestia (6) and (24) which could have been on traded for Steele (27).

Instead of trying to win an arms race with Richmond, in the space of two years we could have had both our kpf and midfield issues sorted.

In retrospect, Treloar didn't improve as much as expected, and remained a very good player, rather than becoming a star and we could have used the picks much better if you compare it with best case scenario. But the same applies to about 90% of draft picks. Under best case scenario, pick 12 equals Paddy Cripps

But if you look at the averages for what you'd get with 2 pick 7s, you're not getting much if any more than Treloar and what you'd expect from a second rounder.

 

[loki04]

Essendon currently hold 21 and need points for the upcoming draft, I believe? That pick as an early second might be more gettable?

yeah trust us to have competition for brions one, yet ours are always come tagged with; “well that’s the best we could hope for”…

 

[loki04]

In retrospect, Treloar didn't improve as much as expected, and remained a very good player, rather than becoming a star and we could have used the picks much better if you compare it with best case scenario. But the same applies to about 90% of draft picks. Under best case scenario, pick 12 equals Paddy Cripps

But if you look at the averages for what you'd get with 2 pick 7s, you're not getting much if any more than Treloar and what you'd expect from a second rounder.

lol the fact he doesn’t even play for us hurts more and given away for sweet fa and we pay him still…it’s the trade that just keeps on giving, I believe we also used the 2nd we got for him as part of the Aish trade. Talk about winning at life pies trade team!

 

[The Royal Sampler]

In retrospect, Treloar didn't improve as much as expected, and remained a very good player, rather than becoming a star and we could have used the picks much better if you compare it with best case scenario. But the same applies to about 90% of draft picks. Under best case scenario, pick 12 equals Paddy Cripps

But if you look at the averages for what you'd get with 2 pick 7s, you're not getting much if any more than Treloar and what you'd expect from a second rounder.

That double hamstring injury was a nasty business.

 

[loki04]

That double hamstring injury was a nasty business.

He does appear to be running better at Dogs this year.

 

[unplugged]

Sicily has re-signed with Hawthorn as expected. It's interesting that we apparently expressed interest to his management, as I suspect he'd be easily worth anywhere from 600k-800k depending who you ask.

Hopefully we've got some money to splash now.

Langdon contract expired last year (unless that ended differently through injury?) and if I'm not mistaken the Beams one will end this year as well. Again, we still don't know if that was paid out differently though injury.

Interesting times ahead, I guess.

 

[sr36]

lol the fact he doesn’t even play for us hurts more and given away for sweet fa and we pay him still…it’s the trade that just keeps on giving, I believe we also used the 2nd we got for him as part of the Aish trade. Talk about winning at life pies trade team!

We've made a lot of shit decisions. I just don't think pick 7 and a future first for a second rounder and what Treloar was at 21 and was projected to become is one of them.

But obviously in hindsight we could have done better.

 

[stormskye]

Sicily has re-signed with Hawthorn as expected. It's interesting that we apparently expressed interest to his management, as I suspect he'd be easily worth anywhere from 600k-800k depending who you ask.

Hopefully we've got some money to splash now.

Langdon contract expired last year (unless that ended differently through injury?) and if I'm not mistaken the Beams one will end this year as well. Again, we still don't know if that was paid out differently though injury.

Interesting times ahead, I guess.

I think Hoskin Elliot’s runs out this year to. And sidey. Bit of money to free up there

 

[unplugged]

I think Hoskin Elliot’s runs out this year to. And sidey. Bit of money to free up there

Something fishy has happened with Sidebottom's contract...

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I think Hoskin Elliot’s runs out this year to. And sidey. Bit of money to free up there

As I expect we will let De Goey walk this year, we ought to be madly front loading contracts so as not to dilute any compensation, then have an almighty swing at FA next year having used an extra first rounder and taking another in 2023.

I’m hoping our interest in Sicily was price-enforcing, and not an indication of strategic mismanagement at a macro level.

 

[AmericanMustard]

Sicily has re-signed with Hawthorn as expected. It's interesting that we apparently expressed interest to his management, as I suspect he'd be easily worth anywhere from 600k-800k depending who you ask.

Hopefully we've got some money to splash now.

Langdon contract expired last year (unless that ended differently through injury?) and if I'm not mistaken the Beams one will end this year as well. Again, we still don't know if that was paid out differently though injury.

Interesting times ahead, I guess.

i still haven’t recovered from that name yet

Something fishy has happened with Sidebottom's contract...

I’m also interested in that because he’s completely cooked. Every article seems to suggest he’s OOC 2022, but that’s clearly not the case. So the fishy is he’s been extended but I can’t find anything about it, either I’m blind or it’s being kept down low..

Edit. No contract talks for Pies star; new deal takes Giant to free agency: Trade Whispers

It was only 4 weeks ago fox sports reported he’s OOC!

 

[sr36]

As I expect we will let De Goey walk this year, we ought to be madly front loading contracts so as not to dilute any compensation, then have an almighty swing at FA next year having used an extra first rounder and taking another in 2023.

I’m hoping our interest in Sicily was price-enforcing, and not an indication of strategic mismanagement at a macro level.

I'd delay the FA swing for a couple of years until we have a better idea of what we've got with our kids and thus what we'll need and I think the timing will be more right in terms of a likely re-build time-line.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I'd delay the FA swing for a couple of years until we have a better idea of what we've got with our kids and thus what we'll need and I think the timing will be more right in terms of a likely re-build time-line.

This also makes sense to me and I would be fine with that. More front loading to hit the 95%!

 

[Jasper84]

In retrospect, Treloar didn't improve as much as expected, and remained a very good player, rather than becoming a star and we could have used the picks much better if you compare it with best case scenario. But the same applies to about 90% of draft picks. Under best case scenario, pick 12 equals Paddy Cripps

But if you look at the averages for what you'd get with 2 pick 7s, you're not getting much if any more than Treloar and what you'd expect from a second rounder.

What surprises me is that we have been pretty successful in talent ID at other clubs and not paying overs in trades. Except for the three times that we put up our future firsts. Seems to be a hubris that the club thinks they will always finish higher the next year.

I for one have no issue with trading our current first pick every year for established talent. Future firsts however should never come into the equation again.

 

[Jonno94]

What surprises me is that we have been pretty successful in talent ID at other clubs and not paying overs in trades. Except for the three times that we put up our future firsts. Seems to be a hubris that the club thinks they will always finish higher the next year.

I for one have no issue with trading our current first pick every year for established talent. Future firsts however should never come into the equation again.

Imagine how much better off the club would be right now if the AFL never brought in trading of future picks, list management is our own worst enemy.

 

[sr36]

What surprises me is that we have been pretty successful in talent ID at other clubs and not paying overs in trades. Except for the three times that we put up our future firsts. Seems to be a hubris that the club thinks they will always finish higher the next year.

I for one have no issue with trading our current first pick every year for established talent. Future firsts however should never come into the equation again.

Future pick trading generally hasn't helped us. Not just with firsts, I think we've lost out with just about every trade involving future picks - we've thrown away a fair few future seconds as well. Each time they make an adjustment to trading laws to give more flexibility, it helps the smart clubs - we haven't been one of them. Hopefully that's been rectified, as I think we traded well last year.

 

[Bianconeri]

People keep bringing up being a goal away in the 2018 Grandfinal as justification for everything but forget it took allot of luck and piss easy draw to get us there in the first place. We lost west coast there time out of three that year, we were allot further away from a premiership then the game made us seem.

Us nearly pinching the 2018 GF doesn’t justify all the wasteful trading we’ve done.

 

[sr36]

yeah trust us to have competition for brions one, yet ours are always come tagged with; “well that’s the best we could hope for”…

We wouldn't get the Lions pick any year for those picks. There's always going to be competition when trading for draft picks. You've got to pay overs in points to trade up and we don't currently have overs in points.