List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[TradeDraft]

 

[ZEV]

Treloar trade was valued at 3300 points
Shiel trade was valued at 3000 points and he was coming off All Australian the year prior.

The issue isn't who we could have drafted with 2x pick 7. It's who we could have traded them for. 2015 the same time as Cloke fell off the cliff, Charlie Dixon went to Port for pick 10. 2016 we could have had Mitchell (14) with picks coming back. Or the one that really hurts Prestia (6) and (24) which could have been on traded for Steele (27).

Instead of trying to win an arms race with Richmond, in the space of two years we could have had both our kpf and midfield issues sorted.

Dont forget with the Treloar trade we got 677 points back from pick 28, the total cost effectively being 2701 points...

Also;

Peter Bell 2000 trade.
Pick 6 (1751 points), Pick 8 (1551 points), Pick 37 (483 points) and Jess Sinclair (0 points).
Total trade value from Fremantle to North... 3785 points.

Wayne Carey 2002 trade.
Pick 2 (2517 points), Pick 18 (985 points)... 3502 points.

Chris Judd trade.
IF you value Kennedy at his #5 pick total trade cost to Carlton 4690 points....

Tim Kelly trade
total cost 3229 points to WC

But yeah we overpaid.

 

[loki04]

Not in the Judd cost bracket but:

Hawks paid a lot for OMeara:
Hawks paid Pick 23,36, future 1st and future 2nd.

Trades that result in a draft pick don't get mentioned, but GWS traded pick 6 and their future first for the pick 4 that they drafted Lachlan Ash with. Or if you go with the hyperbolic ignoring of the draft number which often gets done and just talk about the round - they traded 3 first round draft picks to get Lachlan Ash (they'd previously traded two later first rounders to get pick 6).

No draft number is definitely important, round not so much bit like describing Brisbane's first round this year as hot property equal with our last year.

 

[loki04]

Dont forget with the Treloar trade we got 677 points back from pick 28, the total cost effectively being 2701 points...

Also;

Peter Bell 2000 trade.
Pick 6 (1751 points), Pick 8 (1551 points), Pick 37 (483 points) and Jess Sinclair (0 points).
Total trade value from Fremantle to North... 3785 points.

Wayne Carey 2002 trade.
Pick 2 (2517 points), Pick 18 (985 points)... 3502 points.

Chris Judd trade.
IF you value Kennedy at his #5 pick total trade cost to Carlton 4690 points....

Tim Kelly trade
total cost 3229 points to WC

But yeah we overpaid.

Can we stop using points as a means to judge picks value in terms of trading brackets, it is only relevant for FS and Academy bids so they have a system to bid from.

You can bunch up a heap of shit and trade it for the same points as pick 18 for example.

Using points you would argue same value it isn't.

Similarly pick 1 to 5 hold a big gap on the field one of those plus some later pick could put a big gap on say pick 2 x pick 7 but overall not a better deal per'se would need to weigh draft and see talents in it.
Some years 2x7 would put you ahead by a long way then just pick 2 and 40, other years your top 4 pick will be a game winner player your team can build around and much better option.

 

[loki04]

Dont forget with the Treloar trade we got 677 points back from pick 28, the total cost effectively being 2701 points...

Also;

Peter Bell 2000 trade.
Pick 6 (1751 points), Pick 8 (1551 points), Pick 37 (483 points) and Jess Sinclair (0 points).
Total trade value from Fremantle to North... 3785 points.

Wayne Carey 2002 trade.
Pick 2 (2517 points), Pick 18 (985 points)... 3502 points.

Chris Judd trade.
IF you value Kennedy at his #5 pick total trade cost to Carlton 4690 points....

Tim Kelly trade
total cost 3229 points to WC

But yeah we overpaid.

Treloar and pick 28 for pick 7, 7 and 65.

We then used it along with a myriad of picks on Aish.

Collingwood received Aish and pick No.34 and 53, and gave up picks No.26, 28, 47 and a 2016 second-round pick to Brisbane.

Another heavy toll for Aish at that point in his career.

Made worse by neither player being currently at the club and basically given away.

Pretty sure we also did 2 x 2nds on WHE too.

 

[sr36]

Treloar and pick 28 for pick 7, 7 and 65.

We then used it along with a myriad of picks on Aish.

Collingwood received Aish and pick No.34 and 53, and gave up picks No.26, 28, 47 and a 2016 second-round pick to Brisbane.

Another heavy toll for Aish at that point in his career.

Made worse by neither player being currently at the club and basically given away.

Pretty sure we also did 2 x 2nds on WHE too.

WHE was a rare straight swap for one pick with no balancing pick swaps added - future second.

We've done well on that one, He's played a lot more decent footy than you'd expect from your 2nd round pick. Although you don't want to know who that pick eventually got used on - a quality tall - Noah Balta.

 

[loki04]

WHE was a rare straight swap for one pick with no balancing pick swaps added - future second.

We've done well on that one, He's played a lot more decent footy than you'd expect from your 2nd round pick. Although you don't want to know who that pick eventually got used on - a quality tall - Noah Balta.

Cheers on whe couldnt be stuffed looking it up after all the other ones i have done today lol. Yup at the time a solitary 2nd rounder was a good trade for him.

And damn N.Balta would look good in our backline or forwardline right now. I was a fan in his draft year too.

 

[loki04]

Trading Grundy means trading down to a decent quality Ruck as a replacement. After the Ruck and midfield smashing in the last 2 weeks, a release of say $300-$400k (after paying for another decent Ruckman) in cap space trading Grundy, is not enough to cover the deficiencies exposed.

We’d get taps but not, aerobic capacity to run all day, CP or clearance that Grundy offers in a single package.

Much of Grundy clearances are direct turnovers not sure that's something to hang your hat on.

There is always a defender sitting behind the play loose or infront of our fwd, who often mark or gather largely unopposed and then set up a counter attack on the rebound.

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[JuniorB]

You'd hope we've been in his ear about opportunities in black and white....

 

[sr36]

Cheers on whe couldnt be stuffed looking it up after all the other ones i have done today lol. Yup at the time a solitary 2nd rounder was a good trade for him.

And damn N.Balta would look good in our backline or forwardline right now. I was a fan in his draft year too.

The stories around Balta are that he was a loose canon with no idea or interest in game plan. Not sure if we had the skills or environment to develop him successfully.

 

[adammania9]

Logue goes a fair way to tightening our loose defence. Think he only gets better with experience. Want.

 

[CPH12]

Logue goes a fair way to tightening our loose defence. Think he only gets better with experience. Want.

Agree, would much prefer we target logue over mcstay. Have watched a few of his games this year and think he has a lot to offer

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

On Aish, its crazy how that played out. By all accounts we were very keen on him originally, and then of course we chased him hard a few years later at the trade table. If we had taken aish in the original draft ahead of Freeman and saved us trading picks away to get him and not forced to pay him overs on his salary to attract him…….

Then maybe he’d still be at the club…..

He was only flicked because the salary cap blowout was looming. He was the first victim…. A year before Treloar Phillips and Stephenson.

 

[loki04]

The stories around Balta are that he was a loose canon with no idea or interest in game plan. Not sure if we had the skills or environment to develop him successfully.

Yeah there were rumours re not adhering to structure and game plan at junior level.

But if that was the biggest knock then the club need to have a good hard look at itself in terms of player development and system to fit in varying types of personalities.

 

[CPH12]

Yeah there were rumours re not adhering to structure and game plan at junior level.

But if that was the biggest knock then the club need to have a good hard look at itself in terms of player development and system to fit in varying types of personalities.

Balta was rated highly during the year and from memory Knightmare really liked him, but by the time of the draft he had dropped down most phantom boards, possibly due to the reasons you listed above. We only had pick 6 and 38, so was too big a risk to take him that early. Hindsight is a beautiful thing, there were some good talls available in that draft.

 

[whiskeytown]

Logue goes a fair way to tightening our loose defence. Think he only gets better with experience. Want.

If we don’t take defenders in the msd

Recruiting Logue and Highmore at years end would fix most of the personnel issues down back

 

[Finnishpie]

On Aish, its crazy how that played out. By all accounts we were very keen on him originally, and then of course we chased him hard a few years later at the trade table. If we had taken aish in the original draft ahead of Freeman and saved us trading picks away to get him and not forced to pay him overs on his salary to attract him…….

Then maybe he’d still be at the club…..

He was only flicked because the salary cap blowout was looming. He was the first victim…. A year before Treloar Phillips and Stephenson.

He was pretty widely hated on this board though. Turned into a good player in the end.

On another note:

Logue sounds like a decent player in the right age bracket for us, but what would we have to give up for him?

 

[adammania9]

If we don’t take defenders in the msd

Recruiting Logue and Highmore at years end would fix most of the personnel issues down back

I dig Tommy. My mate played with him at South Adelaide and rates him highly. Certainly an upgrade on the likes of Murphy and Ruscoe

 

[TradeDraft]

He was pretty widely hated on this board though. Turned into a good player in the end.

On another note:

Logue sounds like a decent player in the right age bracket for us, but what would we have to give up for him?

I guess Player or Future Picks

 

[Apex36]

Agree, would much prefer we target logue over mcstay. Have watched a few of his games this year and think he has a lot to offer

Younger, cheaper from a cap perspective, and unlikely to cost an arm and a leg at the trade table given he’s a fringe player at Freo.
We should definitely be in his ear.

 

[Soups]

I dig Tommy. My mate played with him at South Adelaide and rates him highly. Certainly an upgrade on the likes of Murphy and Ruscoe

Can back this up. Good lad with an awesome family. I think he’d be a good pick up and wanted us to grab him before the saints did.

 

[Sh0rty13]

Logue, McStay, Weideman. KPP's sorted for 7-10 years

 

[Apex36]

Logue, McStay, Weideman. KPP's sorted for 7-10 years

You were doing so well until the second word of your sentence, then it all went downhill.

 

[stormskye]

Logue, McStay, Weideman. KPP's sorted for 7-10 years

Mcstay ain’t worth the $ and weid has proven consistently he can’t step up at afl lvl. No ticker