List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Seedsfan]

There's a belief on this board that playing kids, whether they're ready or not, is the best way of developing them.

Personally, I think that good teams get more bang for their buck with draft picks and develop their kids better, because they don't try to fast track them until they show they're ready.

Six of one half a dozen of the other really. It’s about each player and the development coaches will have a better understanding than us of their personalities. Some will benefit from coming in to the side after a consistent run of good time in the twos others will relish the challenge of getting thrown in the deep end

 

[Cobalt King]

I would definitely keep Henry and Macrae.



Our list is pretty average. Surely there cannot still be cap issues - we barely have a spine. If there are then trade the causes.

You wouldn't think it's possible but there is. Grundy and Moore on huge contracts, Howe and Adams also on plenty, probably all getting overpaid for the production they are producing, not saying they aren't very good players obviously they are but all are getting paid above their production atm. Thankfully the ridiculous deal Sidebottom is on ends this year, ditto WHE. Lipinski wouldn't have been cheap either given he had a good offer from dogs on the table

Remember we are still paying Trealor 300k and did we ever find out what happened with the Beams deal?

Obviously something is going on when they are saying negotiations with Henry and McCrae haven't even started. I assume getting rid of the SS and WHE deals should go along way to fixing the issues but still plenty getting overpaid

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I was disagreeing with your argument.

And I was disagreeing with a poster who wants to trade Henry and macrae. We shouldn’t do it…. Not willingly anyway, if they want out (no evidence of that).. then that’s a different matter.

I never said I had a blanket rule that the club shoukd never get rid of players after two years. Of course the club knows more than us outsiders.

 

[loki04]

All these calls to bottom out are mind blowing. What on earth for, let’s aim to develop the kids we have and astutely add to them. Draft picks mean two fifths of duck all at the end of the day. Look at the Suns, they have had more top ten draft picks than I have had hot dinners

That’s because hey didn’t have anything else, draft picks to a good club mean the difference between flagging and being an also ran. Not too mention how many good players were poached like GWS.

 

[SchuPie]

There's a belief on this board that playing kids, whether they're ready or not, is the best way of developing them.

Personally, I think that good teams get more bang for their buck with draft picks and develop their kids better, because they don't try to fast track them until they show they're ready.

That's hard to answer as it's multi-leveled in its reasoning.

We have a number of guys on our list who are clearly not ready and are yet to play a game - we also have another group of developing players who are right on the fringe and who have shown that they can play at the level above.
I don't want them all played at once but I do want them to get as many games as possible.

It's just my opinion, Ollie is a guy I would have in the team each week unless he was fatigued. Poulter would play more.
Senior players would rotate through the squad.

When we were "a good team" we did exactly the same - waited until our young players were completely ready - we're not in that position at the moment so it's a debate as to how we best develop for a rise up the ladder to the ultimate success.
I wish we weren't in the position to have to find out more about our picks over the past 1-3 years.

 

[Mollythedolly]

We need another Kreuger priced stop gap. I quite like McLean from Sydney - hoping Logan McDonald pushes him out of the Swans team.

Yep, happy for us to continue to search for low salary low trade cost fringe players from other clubs.

 

[Mollythedolly]

If Busslinger is/becomes the best tall in the draft and slides to our first, would you take him knowing he's a KPD and then hope to grab a KPF later...or simply grab the best KPF available at our first pick?

Man, we need a series of high (high high) draft picks

Happy for us to take the best KPP available at our 1st selection.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Just IMO, but this is what makes some of our selections this year a little baffling
McRae virtually has a free pass in terms of results yet often team selection doesn't always reflect a development-based approach but rather a results driven approach
We should always play to win but always select a team that is best in achieving the ultimate goal in the future.
I totally understand the thought of why teams + supporters should always theoretically want teams selected with the best chance to win but in this draft-based era, one that doesn't necessarily match our chance of winning the flag this year (or coming years)

Picking a team with the best chance to win isn’t mutually exclusive with the team with the best development option. There’s been a lot of carry on about team selection but imho it’s predominantly posters wanting players selected who don’t have the VFL form to justify that selection. I’d rather we didn’t put the cart before the horse.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I understand team balance, you can't play all kids, but at the moment I don't understand our agenda or the rationale.
For example: I think WHE, at the moment, makes us a miles better team than Poulter...but WHE isn't winning us a premiership, and we need to i) find out if Poulter is capable of being there on the journey with us and ii) if so, develop him as quickly as possible.
If I was WHE this would make me furious so our solution is to rotate him through the side or allow him to leave at the end of the year. That is the problem with being a senior player, playing for a club that is re-building.

Which is kind of the problem with the draft system - I don't want to be a supporter that hopes we finish at the bottom of the table but the system encourages it.

Doesn’t this thinking essentially deny the development opportunity that players get playing VFL?

Aren’t we better of seeing players work on their skill issues at the lower level to ensure they’re better prepared when they do get their next chance?

 

[sr36]

That's hard to answer as it's multi-leveled in its reasoning.

We have a number of guys on our list who are clearly not ready and are yet to play a game - we also have another group of developing players who are right on the fringe and who have shown that they can play at the level above.
I don't want them all played at once but I do want them to get as many games as possible.

It's just my opinion, Ollie is a guy I would have in the team each week unless he was fatigued. Poulter would play more.
Senior players would rotate through the squad.

When we were "a good team" we did exactly the same - waited until our young players were completely ready - we're not in that position at the moment so it's a debate as to how we best develop for a rise up the ladder to the ultimate success.
I wish we weren't in the position to have to find out more about our picks over the past 1-3 years.

Where I disagree is that I don't think it's a given that senior footy is the best way to develop Poulter and Henry at this stage.

 

[stormskye]

This article is a great summation of picks.

Lottery tickets or close to a sure thing? What AFL draft picks are actually worth

Lottery tickets or close to a sure thing? What AFL draft picks are actually worth

www.foxsports.com.au

Most interesting point out of it, is the % chance of drafting a 200 game player, evidenced here:

Pick 1-2: 69 per cent

Pick 3-5: 38 per cent

Pick 6-10: 28 per cent

Pick 11-20: 27 per cent

Pick 21-30: 13 per cent

Pick 31-50: 15 per cent

Pick 51-70: 9 per cent

The drop off is quite astounding, especially after picks 1-2.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Come on down Liam jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Come on down Liam jones

No thanks. No anti vaxxers please. He’s only making a comeback because he’s jealous of Carlton s success since he retired.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

This article is a great summation of picks.

Lottery tickets or close to a sure thing? What AFL draft picks are actually worth

Lottery tickets or close to a sure thing? What AFL draft picks are actually worth

www.foxsports.com.au

Most interesting point out of it, is the % chance of drafting a 200 game player, evidenced here:

Pick 1-2: 69 per cent

Pick 3-5: 38 per cent

Pick 6-10: 28 per cent

Pick 11-20: 27 per cent

Pick 21-30: 13 per cent

Pick 31-50: 15 per cent

Pick 51-70: 9 per cent

The drop off is quite astounding, especially after picks 1-2.

The astounding part is that pick 6 has an equivalent hit rate to pick 20, and that more pick 49-odd is about as successful if not moreso than pick 21-or-so.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I’d love Payne from the Lions. Unfortunately, he’s contracted till 2023.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

The astounding part is that pick 6 has an equivalent hit rate to pick 20, and that more pick 49-odd is about as successful if not moreso than pick 21-or-so.

Not a huge difference between pick 21 & pick 70 either haha

 

[JuniorB]

This article is a great summation of picks.

Lottery tickets or close to a sure thing? What AFL draft picks are actually worth

Lottery tickets or close to a sure thing? What AFL draft picks are actually worth

www.foxsports.com.au

Most interesting point out of it, is the % chance of drafting a 200 game player, evidenced here:

Pick 1-2: 69 per cent

Pick 3-5: 38 per cent

Pick 6-10: 28 per cent

Pick 11-20: 27 per cent

Pick 21-30: 13 per cent

Pick 31-50: 15 per cent

Pick 51-70: 9 per cent

The drop off is quite astounding, especially after picks 1-2.

If Nick Daicos was freely available in the draft last year, I reckon he would have been pick 1.
It's not a knock on JHF - he'll be a terrific player, too.

 

[Quicky]

I’d love Payne from the Lions. Unfortunately, he’s contracted till 2023.

I reckon contracted players who aren't getting games are often gettable. Payne has only played twice this season. He might be amenable to asking for a trade.

 

[Jasper84]

This article is a great summation of picks.

Lottery tickets or close to a sure thing? What AFL draft picks are actually worth

Lottery tickets or close to a sure thing? What AFL draft picks are actually worth

www.foxsports.com.au

Most interesting point out of it, is the % chance of drafting a 200 game player, evidenced here:

Pick 1-2: 69 per cent

Pick 3-5: 38 per cent

Pick 6-10: 28 per cent

Pick 11-20: 27 per cent

Pick 21-30: 13 per cent

Pick 31-50: 15 per cent

Pick 51-70: 9 per cent

The drop off is quite astounding, especially after picks 1-2.

These stats are a bit skewed though, as clubs are less likely to put a line through top 20 players early. High picks are given every opportunity to succeed with much longer timeframes than players drafted outside the first round.

 

[stevebbb]

I see Amartey kicked 4 today


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

20 disposals, 11 marks, 4.2

Won’t get a proper go at the swans in the same way Lipinski and Krueger weren’t at their clubs

Contracted until 2023 but being a Vic boy he might be open to a trade home

I want this kid so bad. We should go hard for him. Great size, great mobility, can absolutely roost a ball. Swans have enough talls, even if Buddy and Reid retire. They could do with a wingman, give me WHE, and they can take Cox as well if they want a back-up tall.

 

[stevebbb]

I know he won't have many admirers, but Rhys Mathieson

36

Rhys Mathieson

Age

28

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

18.4

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.8

5star

is worth a look as a cheap pick-up. He could be our Will Brodie

17

Will Brodie

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

8.2

3star

HB

10.8

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

10.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

2star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

2.8

5star

. Just a contested beast, in there to win the ball. Lions have always had a solid midfield since he's been playing AFL, Rich/Zorko/Beams/Rockliff/McCluggage/Lyons/Neale/Berry. So when he's played AFL, he's mostly played forward. He just hasn't had a proper crack in the midfield at AFL level.

25 years old, contracted until the end of 2023, but must be frustrated with the lack of opportunity, so I'm sure he'd be open to a trade.

 

[Masked Magician]

 

[Harry O]

And I was disagreeing with a poster who wants to trade Henry and macrae. We shouldn’t do it…. Not willingly anyway, if they want out (no evidence of that).. then that’s a different matter.

I never said I had a blanket rule that the club shoukd never get rid of players after two years. Of course the club knows more than us outsiders.

Normally I would agree but with Macrae I don’t think he will make it so if I could get say pick 30 back now and cut my losses I would

 

[sr36]

Normally I would agree but with Macrae I don’t think he will make it so if I could get say pick 30 back now and cut my losses I would

Teams rarely cut their losses on an early or earlyish selection, but when it has been done, it'd be very rarely regretted.

I'm not confident on him, but the club would be in a much better position to judge, so I'll be happy either way.

 

[Chrispiesssss]