List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Timmy from Thomastown]

But normally your second ruckman would become the number one man if someone goes down injured

I just don’t see the point of keeping a depth player that has no experience actually playing the position you expect him to cover

If Grundy goes down then we always have the option of the mid season draft

Are you trying to tell me Cox has never played ruck?

Besides, he can also be cover for Cameron.

 

[JB1975]

You were right to laugh.

It can be an unfunny world, I suppose no one should begrudge anyone else a laugh.

 

[Apex36]

Aldi buys products because they want to sell them - this is an asset that Dogs wanted to keep, so not a great analogy.

Basically, we want him and we've convinced him to nominate us - we don't want the trade to fall through because both of those have what we would consider negative consequences - we either lose the player or we redue the likelihood of future players nominating us. Trade will get done for a price that both bparties are comfortable with - there will be no fleecing in either direction.

I'll ask again - what trade scenario do you consider neutral?

There’s almost no such thing as a neutral leverage trade scenario. Circumstances generally dictate whether it’s the buyer or seller who has leverage. If a player is out of contract and has no intention of ever re-signing with their current club, then the buyer has leverage. If the buyer is a bottom team and has the option of PSD if a trade can’t be facilitated, then that leverage only increases.
By your reasoning, the Martin trade from GC to Carlton was a neutral leverage negotiation, but the reality was that Martin was never re-signing at GC, and GC were asking for more than Carlton were willing to pay. Negotiations broke down and Carlton got him for free. Our situation with Lipinski is almost the same, except it’s much lower stakes, which frankly gives us more leverage again.

 

[jmac70]

Are you trying to tell me Cox has never played ruck?

Besides, he can also be cover for Cameron.

I’d say Cox is gone. If we can get a trade for him that would be a huge bonus.

 

[Football God]

Someone called in about an hour ago on TR and put up a nice idea for us. Trade out pick 22 for a future 1st rounder and next year using that pick plus another 1st rounder for Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

( I’d be up for Logan Mac also, as he supported the Pies growing up iirc)

Now, as I’ve written this I realise that many have said in this thread already. Next year we have to use our 1st round pick as we have already traded out our 2nd, 3rd and 4th is that correct?

So we could possibly use that future 1st pick (traded from 2021 pick 22) and our 2023 1st round pick for a King or Logan Mac. Let’s do it.

Man…… Imagine if we had the American system where you can trade picks 4 years in advance.

 

[JB1975]

Fair shake JB there’s gatekeeping and then there’s this stuff from Sr. It’s up there with what you’d get from Cooney!

I still think the disagreement can be couched without disrespect.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Obese Arachnid

I know, why are people so cruel!!

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Just good job so far Wrighty. So impressive.

I could not see a way of getting the extra Daics points without trading a very good player, trading our '22 1st or going into deficit. It was a conundrum.

Trading our '22 2nd 3rd & 4th with what we got from GC, just gives us so many options. Points for Daics, at pick 1, get Kreuger (and prob Lippa).Just as importantly it locks in next years 1st. Not an option for other clubs in negotiation which i like.

A haul of Daics, Kreuger, Lippa and Dib, together with last years crop is just a geat return and gives me lotsa confidence in our rebuild and the future.

McRae, Leppa, Bolton and now Jetta are just inspired choices and just fill you with confidence.

Now we wait for the bid on Daics. If 1, so be it, just get Dib and its over prob. If not, would we trade 22 to GWS for say '22 2nd Rounder, as long as they didn't do something silly like pick Daics at 2, must be Darcy and their guy, then Daics slips to 4 and we end up with another pick in 30's or so? So GWS get a bargain if they do the right things for themselves.

PS Of all the key forwards names mentioned Callow, Riccardi, Hogan, Wright blah blah .... i am very confident we got the right man, esp after we were sniffing around last year.

I see many Geelong fans describe Kreuger as 'aggressive' and 'hard at it'. That's exactly what we want in a big lad.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I’d say Cox is gone. If we can get a trade for him that would be a huge bonus.

Maybe he is but I’d susoect/suggest that with Lynch gone, We’d be better off retaining him on a moderate salary rather than delisting him. If we get a trade done, that’s a different question, although replacing two backup rucks in the one offseason isn’t ideal.

But at least you aren’t trying to argue that Cox is an inexperienced ruckman!

 

[jmac70]

Maybe he is but I’d susoect/suggest that with Lynch gone, We’d be better off retaining him on a moderate salary rather than delisting him. If we get a trade done, that’s a different question, although replacing two backup rucks in the one offseason isn’t ideal.

But at least you aren’t trying to argue that Cox is an inexperienced ruckman!

Is Lynch gone? We may yet keep him.

 

[Scodog10]

It’s going well isn’t it?
Exciting times!

Couldn’t agree more and I don’t even think the deals were that great in isolation. The best element for me (and probably why I’m a bit hooked) is that we’re showing our intent by shaping the narrative and not allowing the media to dictate it for us. You just know the media had 2 weeks of “how will they get Daicos points” or “how will they land Lipinski and Kreuger” lined up. Its not over yet, but they’ve clearly got a plan unlike Guy.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Is Lynch gone? We may yet keep him.

My whole argument was based on the assumption that Lynch was gone. If he stays, then of course that’s probably stumps for Cox.

 

[manicmagpie]

Absolutely I am! I think we should all be calling out statements like “pretty impossible” when it’s probably a 50/50 proposition if a bid comes at 3 or 4 on Daicos.

I mean two weeks ago I’d have said that it would be pretty impossible for us to have 2700 draft points and Kreuger by mid way through the second day of trade period.

Two weeks? It's barely 24 hours since you stated categorically that Kreuger would not join us this week.

I think we've all been taken by surprise how quickly we've put our plans into action.

 

[Seedsfan]

Are you trying to tell me Cox has never played ruck?

Besides, he can also be cover for Cameron.

The amount of games he has played as a first ruck can be counted on one hand

We have the mid-season draft to be used

You don’t need to carry someone in the twos that will hinder the development of others. Begg, McMahon, Kruger, Cameron, Kelly and Johnson all developing as tall forwards we don’t need another person who will be playing forward.

Better off letting the VFL provide and opportunity for kids to develop and if we need a ruckman use the mid season draft to get an experienced ruckman

 

[left at home]

Fair shake JB there’s gatekeeping and then there’s this stuff from Sr. It’s up there with what you’d get from Cooney!

At least with Cooney, he is doing it for a laugh,

 

[Gabbo64]

If the buyer isn't overly emotionally invested, he car sells for about $10K, as long as both are equal negotiatiors. But if the seller knows the buyer is really keen on the car, he starts at a higher price than he would if he wasn't sure about the level of interest, becasue the level of the interest of the buyer is leverage.

Edit: It sure as hell doesn't go for $6K - which is my point.

I think the real point is that the seller will only get what the buyer is willing to pay. Assuming they have both done their research, 9 times out of 10 that will be the market price.

 

[JoinDate]

Question is, does Lipinski still have that new car smell?

 

[Scodog10]

I still think the disagreement can be couched without disrespect.

I do agree and things got a bit hairy yesterday, but the line of posts you got involved in is a bit different at least from my perspective because I don’t think Sr is entirely serious about it.

 

[JB1975]

Couldn’t agree more and I don’t even think the deals were that great in isolation. The best element for me (and probably why I’m a bit hooked) is that we’re showing our intent by shaping the narrative and not allowing the media to dictate it for us. You just know the media had 2 weeks of “how will they get Daicos points” or “how will they land Lipinski and Kreuger” lined up. Its not over yet, but they’ve clearly got a plan unlike Guy.

I wasn't referring to your good self as a 'gatekeeper', btw.

In fact, you seem to have become a more diplomatic than in earlier times. Appreciate your work.

 

[sr36]

There’s almost no such thing as a neutral leverage trade scenario. Circumstances generally dictate whether it’s the buyer or seller who has leverage. If a player is out of contract and has no intention of ever re-signing with their current club, then the buyer has leverage. If the buyer is a bottom team and has the option of PSD if a trade can’t be facilitated, then that leverage only increases.
By your reasoning, the Martin trade from GC to Carlton was a neutral leverage negotiation, but the reality was that Martin was never re-signing at GC, and GC were asking for more than Carlton were willing to pay. Negotiations broke down and Carlton got him for free. Our situation with Lipinski is almost the same, except it’s much lower stakes, which frankly gives us more leverage again.

There's 4 possible outomes for Lipinski during the trade period:

1. Traded to Collingwood
2. Traded to another club
3. PSD draft
4. Remaining at the Dogs

We know being traded to Collingwood is his preferred outcome, but have no idea how he would order the other 3.

PSD as his second choice the only option where we have leverage, and we only have that leverage if he's told the clubs - which he is unlikely to do - except at the last minute if things are looking pear-shaped in terms of the likelihood of a deal. If his second preference is any of the other options, or we don't know his second preference, we have no leverage.

There is a lot who are assuming that Lipinski's second choice is going into the PSD, yes Martin did it, but very few others have - I don't know why you and others would assume that it's his second preference.

 

[The Prince 29]

Any interest in CCJ. North don't seem to be offering much, maybe 22 and some unused Richmond picks back. He's descibed as key forward, up and coming ruck. I envisage Krueger as key back, CCJ key forward. Thoughts?

 

[Scodog10]

Two weeks? It's barely 24 hours since you stated categorically that Kreuger would not join us this week.

I think we've all been taken by surprise how quickly we've put our plans into action.

That reminds me! TradeDraft sorry big fella I sold you a lemon on that deal…

 

[Everybody Panic]

Someone called in about an hour ago on TR and put up a nice idea for us. Trade out pick 22 for a future 1st rounder and next year using that pick plus another 1st rounder for Max King ( I’d be up for Logan Mac also, as he supported the Pies growing up iirc)

Now, as I’ve written this I realise that many have said in this thread already. Next year we have to use our 1st round pick as we have already traded out our 2nd, 3rd and 4th is that correct?

So we could possibly use that future 1st pick (traded from 2021 pick 22) and our 2023 1st round pick for a King or Logan Mac. Let’s do it.

Man…… Imagine if we had the American system where you can trade picks 4 years in advance.

Why would someone trade a future first for pick 22? I could only see that happening if someone really wanted a player who is available, and we need to move on pick 22 before draft night.

 

[sr36]

I do agree and things got a bit hairy yesterday, but the line of posts you got involved in is a bit different at least from my perspective because I don’t think Sr is entirely serious about it.

No I am serious about it. I think we only have leverage if he tells us and Dogs that he will enter the PSD if a trade isn't done between us.

 

[Jen2310]

Any interest in CCJ. North don't seem to be offering much, maybe 22 and some unused Richmond picks back. He's descibed as key forward, up and coming ruck. I envisage Krueger as key back, CCJ key forward. Thoughts?

North would just put him through the pre-season draft if it came to it.

He wants to be a number 1 ruck.

Doubt we can offer that.