List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[No SPIN]

It was a poor example. I’ll ask this is though, what’s Stevo worth atm? Do you think he could reach his 18/19 form again? Coincidentally his best form was same years as grundys. So what’s Grundy worth atm, and what’s Stevo? I’m just thinking out loud, but they aren’t valued at their previous form. Whilst Grundy is no Hannebery. He’s just come off a long term knee, and now foot stress fractures by all accounts. They would only add to the equation. We aren’t looking to trade 2018/19 Grundy. We are trading Grundy of the the 3 years. The same in that we aren’t trading for Tom Mitchell of years ago. We are trading for 29 year old Mitchell now. 4 years is a lifetime in footy and prob the length of many careers

If GAWN is an AA at 30 (despite 2 knee RECO's), Grundy with an even less significant injury history at 28, is more than capable of returning to AA form.

Stevo's issue is maturity, and with the right mentoring he is capable of getting back to his best - so I think he reinforces that form can be temporary but talent is permanent. Just like Grundy IMO.

 

[Gone Critical]

Interesting to hear Sam Edmund say on SEN this morning that after their main aims, Grundy and Hopper, Geelong are still monitoring a few others in the background like Ollie Henry. Wonder how much fire there is there. Unusual for a young rated player who is wanted not to have signed by now. Must be a real chance something is happening in the background and maybe Ollie is waiting til seasons end to announce he wants to go home.

 

[Juan Ide]

ok a hypothetical - let’s say for Grundy we get two first rounders (picks in the teens).

Which player would you give up three first rounders for? (Like cats did with Cameron with second rounders coming back).

A Rowell/Anderson job lot?

 

[No SPIN]

Out of interest have you ever heard of a player spending 8 years on AFL lists at 2 clubs, for 24 games suddenly jumping up to AFL level in his 9th season. It just seems highly unlikely

Talls take time - look at Mitch Lewis at the Hawks, finally making it after 7 years of patience by the Club.
That's said if Frampton had fundamental flaws in his game, I doubt we'd be giving him a chance.

 

[Countrypie]

Don't be crushed, just have a think before posting something ridiculous.

OK.
Grundy played a wonderful quarter. after his coach gave him a rocket.
Draper had beaten him in the 7 quarters previous that they had been matched up. I'd have Draper ahead of Grundy on current form and prospects. That may seem ridiculous to you. That's OK. I'll learn to cope

 

[adammania9]

I don’t know of any ruck that can impact clearances more than Grundy, potentially Gawn. In this scenario hes a 700k ruckman, the residual amount post trade. Grundy is better than a 700k player.The only way that makes sense is if we get some quality in return. A late first round pick isn’t that by my calculations.

The quality of Grundy’s clearances have always been dubious. Mostly helicopter kicks that aren’t to our forwards’ advantage. Give me Tom Mitchell’s clearances any day.

 

[No SPIN]

Interesting to hear Sam Edmund say on SEN this morning that after their main aims, Grundy and Hopper, Geelong are still monitoring a few others in the background like Ollie Henry. Wonder how much fire there is there. Unusual for a young rated player who is wanted not to have signed by now. Must be a real chance something is happening in the background and maybe Ollie is waiting til seasons end to announce he wants to go home.

or Ollie is waiting to see if Cap space is freed up, and accordingly whether his case is viewed more favorably.

 

[KinderSmock]

Interesting to hear Sam Edmund say on SEN this morning that after their main aims, Grundy and Hopper, Geelong are still monitoring a few others in the background like Ollie Henry. Wonder how much fire there is there. Unusual for a young rated player who is wanted not to have signed by now. Must be a real chance something is happening in the background and maybe Ollie is waiting til seasons end to announce he wants to go home.

It would be a bit dumb to say he wants to leave as the club could choose not to play him or pick a kid ahead of him to be named as medi-sub.

Maynard was the result of learning from the Cripps mistake. It's not about recreating a Cripps success story, it's about learning to be better at spotting talent.

Honestly, ditching this ignorance that talent is only present with 18 year olds is a good start. Mature age recruits should be embraced more. Carmichael, Noble, AJ, Mihocek etc are enough proof talent is in the state leagues but people still seem reluctant to draft out of there. In world sport, 19 or 20 is not a mature age recruit and America, that's the draft age for elite athletes.

Stocker has talent but I don't see him as a better alternative to Tyler Brown.

 

[No SPIN]

The quality of Grundy’s clearances have always been dubious. Mostly helicopter kicks that aren’t to our forwards’ advantage. Give me Tom Mitchell’s clearances any day.

Grundy will give Mitchell plenty of Clearance opportunities if he stays.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Carlton have quite a few players on really big money and they are quite possibly going to lose McKay next year or even Walsh. Both contracts expire next year and they won 't be able to fit both. Stocker is just a salary dump, good player but excess to needs(and played out of position). They will need to get rid of a couple more players like McGovern. I would take a shot on Stocker, he can play inside mid very well

Walsh is signed to 2026, It's Mckay and Dekoning ur thinking of OOC next year.

 

[Gone Critical]

Talls take time - look at Mitch Lewis at the Hawks, finally making it after 7 years of patience by the Club.
That's said if Frampton had fundamental flaws in his game, I doubt we'd be giving him a chance.

Nah. Lewis has just finished his sixth season, has been kicking good number of goals from his 3rd season on with steady clear improvement. Framptons 1st 6 seasons were forward, he played 8 games total for 8 goals total. Lewis 51 games for 84 goals with 37 at 2.5 goals a game this year.

Nothing like Frampton, who essentially had his 1st 6 seasons with no AFL relevance

 

[Gone Critical]

or Ollie is waiting to see if Cap space is freed up, and accordingly whether his case is viewed more favorably.

Of course thats the other option but it is a worry he hasnt signed yet

 

[KinderSmock]

or Ollie is waiting to see if Cap space is freed up, and accordingly whether his case is viewed more favorably.

Bad attitude to have when Cotchin, Riewoldt and others around the competition are putting the TEAM first.

 

[sr36]

Out of interest have you ever heard of a player spending 8 years on AFL lists at 2 clubs, for 24 games suddenly jumping up to AFL level in his 9th season. It just seems highly unlikely

The fact that he's had a recent role change might change things.

 

[No SPIN]

Nah. Lewis has just finished his sixth season, has been kicking good number of goals from his 3rd season on with steady clear improvement. Framptons 1st 6 seasons were forward, he played 8 games total for 8 goals total. Lewis 51 games for 84 goals with 37 at 2.5 goals a game this year.

Nothing like Frampton, who essentially had his 1st 6 seasons with no AFL relevance

It doesn't change the fact that talls take time.
Frampton is a bargain basements pickup, and Leppa is no dunce, that's all that matters

 

[Gone Critical]

It would be a bit dumb to say he wants to leave as the club could choose not to play him or pick a kid ahead of him to be named as medi-sub.

Of course, thats what I am saying. If he is planning to leave not signing fits with that but he wouldnt say anything yet even if he is definitely decided. Its not the only senario but it does seem a real risk to happen.

 

[No SPIN]

Bad attitude to have when Cotchin, Riewoldt and others around the competition are putting the TEAM first.

No comparison - these guys are at the end of their careers, with little to offer going fwd. And they signed after the season was over and Cap flexibility with Taranto likely, had been established.
And with no competitive tension from other clubs for their service they had no option but to sign.

Olliie and Coll's current position is not even close to the above.

 

[sr36]

OK.
Grundy played a wonderful quarter. after his coach gave him a rocket.
Draper had beaten him in the 7 quarters previous that they had been matched up. I'd have Draper ahead of Grundy on current form and prospects. That may seem ridiculous to you. That's OK. I'll learn to cope

The other thing is that rucks often don't run with each other. They often head in different directions after stoppage. Grundy's good quarter around the ground against Draper, probably wasn't actually a head to head clash. It was a quarter where Grundy did well around the ground after Draper had done well around the ground in other quarters.

 

[Gone Critical]

The fact that he's had a recent role change might change things.

He went back in 2021 and immediately starred at SANFL level with big numbers. He has had a reasonable number of games at AFL level in the role without being able to nail his spot. If in your 7th season you are given a new role because you havent made a go of it before means you would expect to be on a short timeline.

I dont know anything much about him otherwise but it would be highly unusual for someone to be on a list for 8 years and then become AFL relevent. I cant think of anyone who remotely fits that story.

 

[adammania9]

Grundy will give Mitchell plenty of Clearance opportunities if he stays.

Mitchell doesn’t need Grundy. Cameron is a good enough ruck with McStay for support, and Cox as depth.

 

[sr36]

He went back in 2021 and immediately starred at SANFL level with big numbers. He has had a reasonable number of games at AFL level in the role without being able to nail his spot. If in your 7th season you are given a new role because you havent made a go of it before means you would expect to be on a short timeline.

I dont know anything much about him otherwise but it would be highly unusual for someone to be on a list for 8 years and then become AFL relevent. I cant think of anyone who remotely fits that story.

Not sure if the time frame is quite as long, but Sam Menegola took a heap of years from when originally drafted - delisted twice - and came back via a successful year in the WAFL. Frampton has at least been a fringe player playing some games along the way, Menegola didn't even get a look in before he finally cam good at the cats.

 

[VinnieB]

or Ollie is waiting to see if Cap space is freed up, and accordingly whether his case is viewed more favorably.

Unless he was made a far inferior offer than Ginnivan and McCreery, I can't see why he can justifiably want more money so early in his career.
If that is what it's going to be, it seems it may be a career where he puts himself well ahead of the club each time a new contract needs to be negotiated.

Either he is being poorly advised, or he really wants to go home to Geelong and play with his brother.

Then again, it may all be BS. I hope so. If not, we need to get the best return we can for him. Could we package a 2nd rounder (preferably we get Geelong's 1st but that may be used for Hopper) and one of our 3rds to Brisbane for their 1st.

 

[RobJD]

Darcy Parish and Tom Mitchell AFL Stats Comparison

Darcy Parish and Tom Mitchell AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

When you consider the stats of a Parish “good year” and Mitchell’s “bad year”, that should give us even more reason to chase Tom.

It depends on the second rounder. A pick in the 30s is a pretty reasonable request, especially if it's an opening gambit.

Maybe next year's 2nd rounder to GWS with their 3rd rounder coming back to us - package of our 3rd rounders to BRI/ESS for their 2023 2nd rounder!

 

[No SPIN]

Mitchell doesn’t need Grundy. Cameron is a good enough ruck with McStay for support, and Cox as depth.

I don't think we need to settle for "good enough".
Also explains why so many here were lamenting Grundys absence from the Geel game
Grundy as one of the leagues TOP Ruckman, gives Mitchell ( and our other mids) far more opportunities, and make us better.

 

[Jen2310]

Interesting to hear Sam Edmund say on SEN this morning that after their main aims, Grundy and Hopper, Geelong are still monitoring a few others in the background like Ollie Henry. Wonder how much fire there is there. Unusual for a young rated player who is wanted not to have signed by now. Must be a real chance something is happening in the background and maybe Ollie is waiting til seasons end to announce he wants to go home.

I am starting to get a bad feeling about this situation. I got a friend who went to Ginni's event last night and a question was raised about this. He doesn't know whether or not he will stay. Think its less about $ and more about the players they are bringing in. But hopefully he stays and just fights for a spot. He should sign a 2 year and if in those two years he still can't lock down a best 22 spot then he could explore options then. But not after his first contract.