Collingwood vs. Carlton

[robertg22]

One of the most ridiculous threads on BigFooty - IMO Carlton will not even make the finals this year & I expect that we should be pushing top 3 or 4. Also, it's not just because of our 'best 22' (which I do not necessarily agree with, but not too important). Carlton have gone backwards with paying over the odds for McLean & losing Fev basically for nothing, while Collingwood have addressed significant concern areas (ruck & clearance work).
No brainer.

 

[gbatman]

1 i dont fully agree with the op's best team and 2 well, TBH I have no idea who is better, time will tell.

 

[gbatman]

Carlton basically got mclean for free, and we got Lucas and Henderson for Fevola who we have already got the best out of and who we really don't need as long as we have the players we have avaliable. Fev was the reason Collingwood beat carlton in the last game, they shut our only attempted scoring option down and we never implemented a plan B. Unlike last game where we beat Collingwood easily and took Fev out of the play and stopped their shut down plan.

 

[Gautama]

Carlton basically got mclean for free, and we got Lucas and Henderson for Fevola who we have already got the best out of and who we really don't need as long as we have the players we have avaliable. Fev was the reason Collingwood beat carlton in the last game, they shut our only attempted scoring option down and we never implemented a plan B. Unlike last game where we beat Collingwood easily and took Fev out of the play and stopped their shut down plan.

They beat us all over the ground. We played like shit that night.

 

[AG]

Carlton basically got mclean for free, and we got Lucas and Henderson for Fevola who we have already got the best out of and who we really don't need as long as we have the players we have avaliable.

Spin king.

 

[Invigoration]

Carlton basically got mclean for free, and we got Lucas and Henderson for Fevola who we have already got the best out of and who we really don't need as long as we have the players we have avaliable. Fev was the reason Collingwood beat carlton in the last game, they shut our only attempted scoring option down and we never implemented a plan B. Unlike last game where we beat Collingwood easily and took Fev out of the play and stopped their shut down plan.

That was nice of Melbourne to just give you McLean.

 

[Nardz]

Don't have to go as far back in our history for a flag as you do. Certainly don't have to go back to the 1930s to see our club a dominant force either.

PS Do you think Collingwood can win one flag in the next 50 years?

we've both only got the 1 flag in the past 20 years.

as for comparing the teams; their best midfield is marginally ahead of ours - but our midfield depth is far superior.

Our defence is clearly better, and now that Fev is gone our forward line is clearly better.

Take out judd and we pretty much have them covered all over the park.

 

[absfab]

He puts it inside 50 more often (must boomerang it from the pocket), rebounds from 50 more often (duh what's a small forward doing back dere duh), has more contested possessions, significantly more clearances (including specifically more centre bounce clearances), more tackles and more ball gets.

That post would be a real winner if it were not for the fact that so much of it is just plain not true. Pity when you make stuff up and somebody takes the trouble to check it.....

 

[Nardz]

But. The day I see Pendlebury slot one on the run from outside 50, or hit a man in heavy traffic lace out from the same distance and make it look easy, or put a 20 metre handball into the hands of a team mate side on at full pace then you might have a point. Murphy does these things, Pendles does not.

lol i have seen pendlebury do all those things expect probably for scoring from outside 50.

Pendles can also go into the forward line and more often than not will beat his man in a marking contest.

Pendles Does these things. Murphy does not.

 

[Invigoration]

That post would be a real winner if it were not for the fact that so much of it is just plain not true. Pity when you make stuff up and somebody takes the trouble to check it.....

I'm all ears

 

[The Kipster]

The 'Who Cares' Cup......I'll enjoy doing something else during this game

 

[magpie_militia]

I expect four goals within the first ten minutes given the chasm in class of the respective midfields.

The blind faith shown in both Jolly and Ball is nothing short of laughable.

Jolly and Ball just add to the midfield that dominated yours last time we met.

I think your expectations are quite unrealistic.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I thought we were playing Richmond this week?

 

[magpie_militia]

Don't have to go as far back in our history for a flag as you do. Certainly don't have to go back to the 1930s to see our club a dominant force either.

PS Do you think Collingwood can win one flag in the next 50 years?

1 flag in 20 years is long enough for either side. I think you are just another delusional Carlton supporter living in the past.

To answer your question, yes I do. Same question applies for your mob.

 

[KennyHunter9]

The time and energy applied by Wobble supports in this thread is admirable and almost disguises the sad story of 1 flag in 50 years - but not quite!

 

[absfab]

I'm all ears

Nope, you don't get away with it that easy. YOU can either back off or provide figures and source for your very specific claims. Which of course you can't coz you either guessed, or you fibbed.

Further smart aleck one liners will not strengthen your position.

 

[DaVe86]

Carlton's midfield is better on paper...and the midfield is also a better attacking unit. But Collingwood's midfield is much more disciplined and able to convert to a defensive gameplan with greater efficiency.

Collingwood can shut down a game, Carlton cannot.

But Carlton have the greater ability to blow a game open...and are well suited to playing Collingwood who perhaps lack pace in the midfield.

Fevola did nothing in either of the games last year, yet Carlton still won the first one (against a VFL Collingwood side albeit). But Presti is the ideal matchup for Fev. This year, Presti will go onto someone else and shut him down.


Our defence is better, its hard to dispute that.

Forward line is a weakness for both side going into this year...although atleast Collingwood's forward line is fairly settled and multi-pronged.

2 talls...1 mid-sized...multiple options to play small. Just lacks the real power forward of a Riewoldt, Brown, Pavlich, Franklin ilk. But it is a forward line that scores due to its rotations and versatility.

Despite this, it is settled and works. There are big question marks over Carlton's forward line. Is Kreuzer going forward?? Is Henderson or Waite going forward?? Does this mean the Blues play 3 rucks to let Kreuzer go forward?? Who replaces Fisher?? Do they go in with Garlett, Yarran and Betts?? Who is the mid-sized forward?? Does this open a spot for Lucas...a first year player??

The only question for Collingwood is do we play the 3rd tall or leave Anthony at FF. I say play the 3rd tall...perhaps meaning Fraser is only given 40% gametime with Jolly doing the bulk of the ruck.


Carlton's midfield is improved with another in and under (Mclean).



You couldn't really have 2 different sides to compare to. Will be an interesting matchup. If Carlton beat Collingwood, it does not necessarily mean they are better. I just think they matchup very well against us. They play a gameplan we struggle to deal with.

 

[Invigoration]

Nope, you don't get away with it that easy. YOU can either back off or provide figures and source for your very specific claims. Which of course you can't coz you either guessed, or you fibbed.

Further smart aleck one liners will not strengthen your position.

Haha, c'mon, you're telling the story. What part of it wasn't true?

 

[The Big League]

Ok, I'm going to say this once and once only.

The fact that 95% of all posts in this thread are from either Collingwood or Carlton supporters proves that NO ONE else cares about who is better, which midfielder had more rebounding handballs out of the back pocket while only wearing one shoe, or who's team has the more accomplished training facilities.
This 'rivalry' for all intents and purposes is only important to Collingwood and Carlton fans, so don't cluster the main discussion board with this BS.

I am not saying this because I barrack for Collingwood I am saying this because all you have to do is look at the list of players provided and then look at how each team has faired over the last few years.

Carlton improved last year, Collingwood finished equal 3rd.
If Carlton are going to match or better Collingwood THIS year then they have a hell of alot of catching up to do. However it may happen, who knows.

So for the rest of you, let me save you the trouble:

Carlton fans : "your team hasn't won a flag in 50 years, Didak sucks, Davis goes missing, Jack Anthony looks like a flog who cries"

Collingwood fans : "you lost your best player, Judd is bald, ratten can't coach, your team like to drink beer"

Case closed, no more boring stats, no boring insults and please dear god no more player comparisons.


end rant/

 

[absfab]

1 flag in 20 years is long enough for either side. I think you are just another delusional Carlton supporter living in the past.

To answer your question, yes I do. Same question applies for your mob.

Tsk Tsk. Thats not nice. I could, for instance, have sledged you over how many times in very own life I've seen Carlton do Collingwood over in GFs - but I didn't.

In answer to the question in return, absolutely. Further, while I agree that across the team Collingwood is ahead of Carlton in 2010 I am confident of a reversal by season 2012. Once a team starts recruiting old guys you know that the core thats got to carry them over the next 5-10 years just can't cut it.

 

[Nardz]

The time and energy applied by Wobble supports in this thread is admirable and almost disguises the sad story of 1 flag in 50 years - but not quite!

the deflection by carlton supporters in this thread is admirable and almost diguises another sad story.

continually referring to a period of history that before most of them were born in order to soften the pains of today

 

[invinciBlues]

Carlton's midfield is better on paper...and the midfield is also a better attacking unit. But Collingwood's midfield is much more disciplined and able to convert to a defensive gameplan with greater efficiency.

Collingwood can shut down a game, Carlton cannot.

But Carlton have the greater ability to blow a game open...and are well suited to playing Collingwood who perhaps lack pace in the midfield.

Fevola did nothing in either of the games last year, yet Carlton still won the first one (against a VFL Collingwood side albeit). But Presti is the ideal matchup for Fev. This year, Presti will go onto someone else and shut him down.


Our defence is better, its hard to dispute that.

Forward line is a weakness for both side going into this year...although atleast Collingwood's forward line is fairly settled and multi-pronged.

2 talls...1 mid-sized...multiple options to play small. Just lacks the real power forward of a Riewoldt, Brown, Pavlich, Franklin ilk. But it is a forward line that scores due to its rotations and versatility.

Despite this, it is settled and works. There are big question marks over Carlton's forward line. Is Kreuzer going forward?? Is Henderson or Waite going forward?? Does this mean the Blues play 3 rucks to let Kreuzer go forward?? Who replaces Fisher?? Do they go in with Garlett, Yarran and Betts?? Who is the mid-sized forward?? Does this open a spot for Lucas...a first year player??

The only question for Collingwood is do we play the 3rd tall or leave Anthony at FF. I say play the 3rd tall...perhaps meaning Fraser is only given 40% gametime with Jolly doing the bulk of the ruck.


Carlton's midfield is improved with another in and under (Mclean).



You couldn't really have 2 different sides to compare to. Will be an interesting matchup. If Carlton beat Collingwood, it does not necessarily mean they are better. I just think they matchup very well against us. They play a gameplan we struggle to deal with.

Agree with this. An honest and realistic comparison between the two sides.

Invigoration? Take notes.

 

[Nardz]

Once a team starts recruiting old guys you know that the core thats got to carry them over the next 5-10 years just can't cut it.

lol the ignorance is bewildering.

the core over the next 5-10 years is coming along just fine - it's the next 2-3 years that we addressed by recruiting a couple of experienced players.

If we were happy to just make the finals we would not have recruited Ball or Jolly - clearly we are looking to take the next step.

 

[DaVe86]

absfab...that's one way to look at it.

Or the other way to look at it is that now the core is in place...and its time to just top up in the positions we lacked the most in...which was an in and under mid and a quality ruckman.

The core is the team that has got us to the last few prelims. Ball and Jolly and merely the cream now to take us the extra step.


Or you can read into it...as you have...that the core is not good enough, and we have taken desperate measures to cover gaping holes.


Perhaps a mixture of both. Who knows.

 

[magpie_militia]

Tsk Tsk. Thats not nice. I could, for instance, have sledged you over how many times in very own life I've seen Carlton do Collingwood over in GFs - but I didn't.

In answer to the question in return, absolutely. Further, while I agree that across the team Collingwood is ahead of Carlton in 2010 I am confident of a reversal by season 2012. Once a team starts recruiting old guys you know that the core thats got to carry them over the next 5-10 years just can't cut it.

You would just be proving my point if you used that sledge. There are WAY too many Carlton supporters living off past glories.

Collingwood's core players are still quite young, collectively we should be in our prime come 2012. If Carlton are above us in 2012, get on them for the flag. That's my prediction.