Opinion Commentary & Media V

[archereleven]

I'd have to start chaining myself to my seat. Let's see them eject me then!

The security guards will start wear riggers belts... Chained to the seat, out comes the shifter.

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[archereleven]

Really don't know why ppl are so upset by this, there is a severe shortage of umpires and they're trying to fix it (albeit a little late).

Umpires are not sport stars, they get paid hourly like most of us, and no one deserves to be abused and yelled back at in their workplace.
They're not getting paid $350k a year like players to take that type of sh!t.

The survey of leaving umpires has 10% saying they left because of lack of enjoyment and 6% because of abuse as the main reason.
13% said pay which is also being addressed.

So the players are expected to be robots and umpires fallible humans beyond reproach...

I see...





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[archereleven]

completely get that, but how do you define the difference? which is why i think they're trying to make the rule black and white. otherwise it's stuck in a grey areas and leads to more inconsistent rulings.

by saying arms out is a free is crap but it will help make it consistent don't you think?

It'll be the only rule they adjudicate that is black and white.

That's the crux of the problem.

The rules are a shit show.

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[Gasometer]

Tennis has been mishandling dissent since Conners and Mac appeared and as we saw last summer and every time Kyrios is on court, it’s a difficult behaviour to modify if there isn’t a serious consequence.

Had those consequences have been inflicted back in the 80’s then maybe they would have got on top of the issue.

But let’s not get clouded by the back chat and arms out. This was clearly a response to Green’s contact last year and the potential ugliness of it reoccurring in the future.

 

[FlyHigh18]

So the players are expected to be robots and umpires fallible humans beyond reproach...

I see...





On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Mate the umpire isn’t there to be the outlet for a players’ frustration.

It’s been normalised and now they’re trying to stop it because people no longer want to umpire.

It really isn’t that hard to understand.

 

[nicko74]

Mate the umpire isn’t there to be the outlet for a players’ frustration.

It’s been normalised and now they’re trying to stop it because people no longer want to umpire.

It really isn’t that hard to understand.

The concept is easy to understand. The execution of it, not so much.

 

[archereleven]

Mate the umpire isn’t there to be the outlet for a players’ frustration.

It’s been normalised and now they’re trying to stop it because people no longer want to umpire.

It really isn’t that hard to understand.

Where is the evidence that umpires no longer want to umpire because of negative body language/player dissent. What, a generic poll?

Have they listed penalising negative body language or arm waving a priority in job satisfaction? If so, they havnt taken the crowd into consideration obviously!

How many umpires quit the game from 2000 - 2009 compared to 2010 - 2019, then covid years 2020 - 2022?

I would like solid data before I start believing the rhetoric of Bard and the AFL. They are confirmed bullshitters of the highest order.

You pay enough money, you get enough employees.

I wonder how many AFL delistees/retirees would choose this particular career path if salary was say $200 - 250k a year with finals bonus' etc Less for boundary/goal umpires obviously.

I not calling bullshit yet, but I'm calling bullshit sort of...

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[nicko74]

Where is the evidence that umpires no longer want to umpire because of negative body language/player dissent. What, a generic poll?

Have they listed penalising negative body language or arm waving a priority in job satisfaction? If so, they havnt taken the crowd into consideration obviously!

How many umpires quit the game from 2000 - 2009 compared to 2010 - 2019, then covid years 2020 - 2022?

I would like solid data before I start believing the rhetoric of Bard and the AFL. They are confirmed bullshitters of the highest order.

You pay enough money, you get enough employees.

I wonder how many AFL delistees/retirees would choose this particular career path if salary was say $200 - 250k a year with finals bonus' etc Less for boundary/goal umpires obviously.

I not calling bullshit yet, but I'm calling bullshit sort of...

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Pre-empting bullshit?

 

[FlyHigh18]

Where is the evidence that umpires no longer want to umpire because of negative body language/player dissent. What, a generic poll?

Have they listed penalising negative body language or arm waving a priority in job satisfaction? If so, they havnt taken the crowd into consideration obviously!

How many umpires quit the game from 2000 - 2009 compared to 2010 - 2019, then covid years 2020 - 2022?

I would like solid data before I start believing the rhetoric of Bard and the AFL. They are confirmed bullshitters of the highest order.

You pay enough money, you get enough employees.

I wonder how many AFL delistees/retirees would choose this particular career path if salary was say $200 - 250k a year with finals bonus' etc Less for boundary/goal umpires obviously.

I not calling bullshit yet, but I'm calling bullshit sort of...

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

They literally interviewed outgoing umpires across all levels of footy to understand why they were leaving and put a strategy doc together to help fix it.

But a quick google search would have told you this.

Also, ‘AFL’ umpire payments aren’t the issue. Most umpires are in local footy, which feeds up into AFL.

 

[ferball]

They literally interviewed outgoing umpires across all levels of footy to understand why they were leaving and put a strategy doc together to help fix it.

But a quick google search would have told you this.

Also, ‘AFL’ umpire payments aren’t the issue. Most umpires are in local footy, which feeds up into AFL.

How is making rules that cause more consternation about umpires going to fix that tho?

Its like giving everyone firearms to decrease levels of gun violence.

 

[giantroo]

 

[giantroo]

Middle men: Who's attending the most centre bounces for your club?

Who's attending the most CBAs for your club after five rounds?

www.afl.com.au

If you're looking for Jy Simpkin, you can find him in a centre square! Only Scott Lycett

29

Scott Lycett

Age

32

Ht

203cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

6.3

4star

CL

2.6

4star

HO

19.0

5star

D

11.3

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

5.7

3star

CL

4.2

5star

HO

24.7

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

5.0

5star

, Port Adelaide's solo ruck, has a higher percentage of centre bounce attendances. No.1 draft pick Jason Horne-Francis has increased his midfield minutes since debut and has been the second man behind Simpkin in the last couple of weeks. One of the big surprises for many has been the transition in the ruck that has seen Tristan Xerri take on more of a role in the ruck from Roos stalwart Todd Goldstein.

Player	Fantasy	R1	R2	R2	R4	R5	CB AVG
Jy Simpkin	91.8	100	91	91	90	86	91
Hugh Greenwood	84.2	70	68	76	48	53	63
Tristan Xerri	75.4	57	55	68	52	69	61
Jason Horne-Francis	71.2	26	55	59	76	72	60
Luke Davies-Uniacke	71.3	65	14	DNP	52	67	52
Todd Goldstein	51	43	45	32	48	31	39
Tarryn Thomas	49	39	27	DNP	DNP	DNP	33
Jaidyn Stephenson	77.8	0	DNP	35	34	14	22
Tom Powell	60.3	0	18	15	DNP	8	10
Curtis Taylor	65	0	23	12	0	0	6
Cameron Zurhaar	44.3	0	5	6	0	DNP	3
Kayne Turner	48.2	0	0	6	0	0	1

 

[Roosurgence]

Hey Brad, here is an easy fix.

Players normally get frustrated after an umpire has paid a free kick because a player has staged.

Take staging out of the game with suspensions and you will find the frustration levels will start to decline instantly.

If Hawkins risks suspension due to his staging on Monday, he wouldn’t do it, the garbage free wouldn’t be paid and there would be no player frustration.

Typical Brad though, can’t see the forest through the trees and is punishing an action that could be lessened simply by addressing the root cause.

While he is at it, he can also address the interpretation of high tackles. We were all promised that players lowering themselves into a tackle were going to be adjudicated as having prior opportunity. If anything this rule has been blatantly ignored. Instead of the arm raising tactic, we just have players lowering to their knees to draw a free.

How they expect players to tackle someone that has effective gone from a standing position down to their knees is just ludicrous.

 

[giantroo]

 

[FlyHigh18]

How is making rules that cause more consternation about umpires going to fix that tho?

Its like giving everyone firearms to decrease levels of gun violence.

There’s no other option except to lead from the top down. Every new rule has a teething period and I agree it totally makes umpires look worse in the interim.

But I guarantee you’ll forget about it in a few weeks time once players learn not to use umpires as an outlet for their frustration.

 

[shintemaster]

There’s no other option except to lead from the top down. Every new rule has a teething period and I agree it totally makes umpires look worse in the interim.

But I guarantee you’ll forget about it in a few weeks time once players learn not to use umpires as an outlet for their frustration.

Tend to agree, we will find out soon enough I guess. Flipside of this approach is that I've never like the buddy, buddy chit chat from umpires to players. If they want to have a professional and respectful relationship they shouldn't be chatting all matey with the players either. Just make the call and move on with it.

FWIW I think less of an issue with 50m for these actions than some of the laughable free kick ideas in recent years such as being too close to a mark (but not impacting the player) or being penalised for rushing a behind without pretending hard enough that you weren't.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

While I can empathize with player frustration over a dive as blatant as Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

36

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

' on the weekend, the 50-metre penalty against Gunston and Breust for pointing up at the big screen is perfectly justifiable if only for the reason that it was breathtakingly ****ing stupid of them to do it. No umpire has ever changed a decision based on a player pointing to the screen and asking them to look at the replay. And with precedent warning against dissent, they still went ahead with it. Dumb as dog shit footballers.

 

[archereleven]

They literally interviewed outgoing umpires across all levels of footy to understand why they were leaving and put a strategy doc together to help fix it.

But a quick google search would have told you this.

Also, ‘AFL’ umpire payments aren’t the issue. Most umpires are in local footy, which feeds up into AFL.

They literally interviewed outgoing umpires across all levels of footy to understand why they were leaving and put a strategy doc together to help fix it.

But a quick google search would have told you this.

Also, ‘AFL’ umpire payments aren’t the issue. Most umpires are in local footy, which feeds up into AFL.

That doesn't address my post.

How many outgoing umpires where there? 4? 33? 109? 963?

A strategy doc? The AFL? Good one

So it's local umpire numbers or payments that are the problem?

Or is simply, now women's football has taken off, a limited resource is now spread over more competitions?

Fix the rules and interpretations, then fix the dissent. Players generally know when they have erred, the emotional response is usually triggered by bad decisions.






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[the flying ham]

How is making rules that cause more consternation about umpires going to fix that tho?

Its like giving everyone firearms to decrease levels of gun violence.

Good point ferbs. I understand the logic behind it but it appears they are going for the rugby union approach to dealings between players and ref's. Which works in theory but in practice play isn't allowed to stop to allow referees and captains to discuss decisions. Game is too quick. Anyway feel like they won't roll it back, like most new rules will be mostly heavy handed and inconsistent then once largely behaviour has shifted will probably become more of a common sense approach. I hope.

 

[Samsquanch]

Hey Brad, here is an easy fix.

Players normally get frustrated after an umpire has paid a free kick because a player has staged.

Take staging out of the game with suspensions and you will find the frustration levels will start to decline instantly.

If Hawkins risks suspension due to his staging on Monday, he wouldn’t do it, the garbage free wouldn’t be paid and there would be no player frustration.

Typical Brad though, can’t see the forest through the trees and is punishing an action that could be lessened simply by addressing the root cause.

While he is at it, he can also address the interpretation of high tackles. We were all promised that players lowering themselves into a tackle were going to be adjudicated as having prior opportunity. If anything this rule has been blatantly ignored. Instead of the arm raising tactic, we just have players lowering to their knees to draw a free.

How they expect players to tackle someone that has effective gone from a standing position down to their knees is just ludicrous.

The big problem for me is that the umpires REWARDED the dive by paying 50 against the outrage of players who clearly saw it as a cheating action.

Surely one umpire observed that hawkins launched himself.

But the truly outrageous event was that the AFL did not penalise hawkins and they did not acknowledge the errors of paying the free kick which in turn led to the 50. Added to this, even the conga-line of media suck-holes have played endless examples of inconsistency from the weekend's round of football.

 

[Roosurgence]

While I can empathize with player frustration over a dive as blatant as Tom Hawkins' on the weekend, the 50-metre penalty against Gunston and Breust for pointing up at the big screen is perfectly justifiable if only for the reason that it was breathtakingly ******* stupid of them to do it. No umpire has ever changed a decision based on a player pointing to the screen and asking them to look at the replay. And with precedent warning against dissent, they still went ahead with it. Dumb as dog shit footballers.

Are they really dumb as dog shit for pointing out to the umpire that he has been conned?

I said it in an earlier post fix the cause instead of punishing the action.

If staging is called out and becomes a suspension, you watch it decline and players won’t need to get frustrated.

Can you imagine if that was the last minute of a Grand Final and that decided the result?

Do you expect a player in what is an emotional game to sit there and take what was a blatant dive and massive umpiring error?

If Brad was doing his job correctly he would actually be looking at what is causing players to become so frustrated?

Players are fully aware that umpires will make mistakes, but now more than ever they are playing a game where players that stage are being rewarded. If that’s not frustrating enough, then we have lost touch that this game is played by humans that get emotional when they feel cheated.

 

[archereleven]

Good point ferbs. I understand the logic behind it but it appears they are going for the rugby union approach to dealings between players and ref's. Which works in theory but in practice play isn't allowed to stop to allow referees and captains to discuss decisions. Game is too quick. Anyway feel like they won't roll it back, like most new rules will be mostly heavy handed and inconsistent then once largely behaviour has shifted will probably become more of a common sense approach. I hope.

Like holding the ball, diving, flopping, push in the back, hands in the back etc etc

Common sense isn't too common ar AFL House.

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[shintemaster]

The big problem for me is that the umpires REWARDED the dive by paying 50 against the outrage of players who clearly saw it as a cheating action.

Surely one umpire observed that hawkins launched himself.

But the truly outrageous event was that the AFL did not penalise hawkins and they did not acknowledge the errors of paying the free kick which in turn led to the 50. Added to this, even the conga-line of media suck-holes have played endless examples of inconsistency from the weekend's round of football.

But this is a nonsense argument - if they'd seen it as a dive to start with they wouldn't have paid the free kick to begin with and we wouldn't be having the discussion. There is an issue in that players that hold their position or show their strength are now routinely not rewarded with free kicks vs those who allow themselves to be moved easily out of the play. That's tough to eliminate unless you basically assume that players highlighting free kicks are essentially always faking.

Umpires will get it wrong, they'll see what isn't there at times, misjudge the amount of contact etc. The players fundamentally need to just get on with the game and there is zero to be gained from arguing after the fact, right or wrong call made.

FWIW I don't think a player metres off the play showing their displeasure should necessarily be a free as long as they are not aggressive or demonstrative specifically towards the decision maker. Both parties are in the wrong though, there is also zero need for umpires to even be in the players faces about this decision way off the ball. Pay the free move on. The more they argue about it the more potential for both parties to look stupid.

 

[Passmore]

****ing hell, the state of that head. Is there anything in there?

 

[Samsquanch]

But this is a nonsense argument - if they'd seen it as a dive to start with they wouldn't have paid the free kick to begin with and we wouldn't be having the discussion. Umpires will get it wrong, they'll see what isn't there at times, misjudge the amount of contact etc. The players fundamentally need to just get on with the game and there is zero to be gained from arguing after the fact, right or wrong call made.

FWIW I don't think a player metres off the play showing their displeasure should necessarily be a free as long as they are not aggressive or demonstrative specifically towards the decision maker. Both parties are in the wrong though, there is also zero need for umpires to even be in the players faces about this decision way off the ball. Pay the free move on. The more they argue about it the more potential for both parties to look stupid.

I fully understand what you are saying. The same went through my mind. But I posted as-is because there are so many fundamentals that need to be discussed...

- Why did three umpires not observe the hawkins dive when it was alongside the contest and within the field of view if any of them were actually watching the ball and players contesting it?

- What did the umpire pay the free kick for (a push presumably - although because there was no push that caused hawkins to lurch and tumble the way he did, the umpire cannot have seen a push)? So it appears to me that the umpire assumed hawkins was pushed.

- Why, with the technology we have available, can't the AFL install a video referee who can assist on-field umpires or intervene if howlers are made? In the event of an umpire error the current rules allow for one of the other umpires to intervene or override. They can elect to ball-up if a decision is split or unclear.


OK. I get it that the umpire did not see or register that hawkins dived. With three on-field umpires, that is a very serious problem indeed.

As Roosurgence has said - address the root cause, not the symptoms.

Every generation has declared that the game is in disarray. It is in turmoil now in terms of it being a sport. I have already laid claim to the name Australian Football Entertainment (AFE) and I expect to soon be collecting some sweet royalty checques