Opinion Commentary & Media VI

[czero]

That statement by Eddie will be something that he's rehashed from attending training, either in the context of being able to recognise racism or alongside people learning how to behave in a way that does not exhibit racism. I've been on enough training courses in various workplaces where this idiom has been stated word for word, and where variants such as "If (the victim) says it's sexism, then it's sexism", "If (the victim) says it's bullying, then it's bullying" and "If (the victim) says it's anti-Semitic, then it's anti-Semitic" etc.

I have no doubt that these points are true - some people can be very badly hurt by words or actions that others would dismiss as harmless (I had a bloke on my staff who worked on a major project with a female member who was younger and less experienced - initially he wanted somebody else although as the project headed towards completion they presented an update with preliminary conclusions he rounded up the meeting by stating that she was, "Quite capable, for a woman".

Of course, I recognised that she wasn't happy about that (mainly because she started yelling at him) and he lost the plot when I told him to withdraw the comment and apologise - they both just started screaming and arguing - it was out of control.

I supported her in a HR claim (if she believed it was misogyny then it was misogyny), however as she has used fairly harsh words, he also launched a case so I equally had to support his case (if he believed it was abuse then it was abuse). HR took over and seemingly, after a few sessions all was smoothed over, there were mutual apologies and admissions of regret, recognition of each other's work and on the advice of HR, I retained them both on the project. I had given notice by this stage, pending the project winding up successfully, which it did. On my last day I sensed a bit of tension and it turned out that they'd had some sort of scuffle in a lift - we spent 4 hours in a session with HR FFS.

In conclusion, whether it's misogyny, sexism, bullying, racism or whatever, there will always be some people who shrug it off and others who will be extremely sensitive to the words or actions of others.

In one of the HR sessions the guy actually said to the lady that she should eat a dose of concrete! That was the attitude of a bygone era - harden up. We used to tell people the only reason we tease or give them certain nick-names is because we like them (nick-names that were clearly racially insensitive for example).

"If the victim says it's racism, then its racism" is true and the training is valid - I have no doubt about this as I said above. I absolutely believe that a lot of the booing of Buddy Franklin was somewhat racially motivated or amongst some of those booing there was a subconscious element of racism, even though most of the people who were booing would have thought that there was not much to it. I have no issue with giving a player a bit of stick if they get away with a push or if they commit a reportable offence but one or two boos is enough. We (as a bunch of footy followers) can't keep booing a player week after week and over several seasons. That isn't reasonable.

Umpires on the other hand.........................

The training I do clearly shows you what's sexist, racist, bullying, and misogyny. And to be quite frank its hardly something you need to guess at, its pretty clear. We ALL know it. Just be normal, respect others.

You are telling me that you are seeing training now that dictated that what a person says about an incident trumps the actions? This is exactly the type of stuff that I am pointing out to you where we have gone too far. We have hit an overreach, there needs to be a rebalancing but its hard to see how quite frankly.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Will this weekend be GW’S game?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Have you not been watching the last few rounds? Don’t let the disposal totals fool you, each game has been his. People were talking about Sheezel’s impact per possession pre draft based on insane fantasy footy numbers, but Wardlaw has made every one of his 16 possessions per game count. Even the few times he misses with disposal, he is trying to do something few others can see out there (which I think is a massive win).

 

[Kanga Glory]

 

[Caracas]

Have you not been watching the last few rounds? Don’t let the disposal totals fool you, each game has been his. People were talking about Sheezel’s impact per possession pre draft based on insane fantasy footy numbers, but Wardlaw has made every one of his 16 possessions per game count. Even the few times he misses with disposal, he is trying to do something few others can see out there (which I think is a massive win).

I was just larking about with the initials.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Hearts to hearts]

View attachment 1706508

Ben was very good on Sunday. Let’s not pretend keeping Weideman goalless was a triumph, though. He’s not that good and he missed a sitter.

 

[apollo_creed]

pick 3...?? see ya later Ben. thanks for your service.

 

[shintemaster]

View attachment 1706508

That article on backended deals is a bit of a lark. Phil Davis and his "selfless" deal, I mean yeah, sure, he - and others - helped the club pay him extreme amounts of money. Selfless isn't exactly the term I would use.

 

[KiwiRoo]

pick 3...?? see ya later Ben. thanks for your service.

If we had a choice between pick 3 and Ben staying I'd rather keep Ben
Pick 3 could be a bust and big defenders are like gold

better the devil you know than the draft lottery which can happen with KP players (which i'd assume we'd use pick 3 on)

 

[ferball]

Are we sure 100% of the playing group are 100% on board with Clarko’s version of events? Or is there some doubt and therefore less respect for him than there would otherwise have been, had he come to the club purely as a premiership legend and not with this lingering/looming..?
It’s not what I necessarily think, but genuine question.

I've wondered this myself. Just an idle thought tho. I think its obvious Clarko's coaching wasn't great recently either.

 

[Moti]

If we had a choice between pick 3 and Ben staying I'd rather keep Ben
Pick 3 could be a bust and big defenders are like gold

better the devil you know than the draft lottery which can happen with KP players (which i'd assume we'd use pick 3 on)

I also think we could win 3-5 games on the way back so might be more like 5-7.

 

[Tiberius]

If we had a choice between pick 3 and Ben staying I'd rather keep Ben
Pick 3 could be a bust and big defenders are like gold

better the devil you know than the draft lottery which can happen with KP players (which i'd assume we'd use pick 3 on)

If that happened, and keeping im mind the article above with West Coast and the Go home factor, we could offer pick 3 and the Port first round pick, likely to be around 15 - 18, to West Coast for pick 1. We would likely have 1 and 2, they could have three to take a local product and we walk away like bandits. (Although losing McKay) Although not being a draft expert I'm sure somebody will point out to me that this can't be done.

 

[apollo_creed]

If we had a choice between pick 3 and Ben staying I'd rather keep Ben
Pick 3 could be a bust and big defenders are like gold

better the devil you know than the draft lottery which can happen with KP players (which i'd assume we'd use pick 3 on)

Ben who hasn’t signed yet (bad sign this late in a contract when everyone else has) and Ben who has been poor this season.

If it’s pick 3 vs a guy who hasn’t shown commitment when the club needs it then I know what my preference is.

As someone noted though pick 3 could become pick 6 by the end of the season and that does change the argument a little bit.

 

[Full Chooks]

If we had a choice between pick 3 and Ben staying I'd rather keep Ben
Pick 3 could be a bust and big defenders are like gold

better the devil you know than the draft lottery which can happen with KP players (which i'd assume we'd use pick 3 on)

This draft has quite a few KP and utility players in it. Might be a good idea to get another young fella to develop along with the rest. We could recruit another to take Ben's place, he and Logue can hold down the fort while the boys develop. Then we have a super young core of players that are all developing and forming bonds at the same time. Breed loyalty and comradery into them and boom, Hawthorn like dynasty..?

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

This draft has quite a few KP and utility players in it. Might be a good idea to get another young fella to develop along with the rest. We could recruit another to take Ben's place, he and Logue can hold down the fort while the boys develop. Then we have a super young core of players that are all developing and forming bonds at the same time. Breed loyalty and comradery into them and boom, Hawthorn like dynasty..?

2x KPB
1x KPF
1x Outside silk
Watson

That’s all I want for Christmas.

 

[KiwiRoo]

Ben who hasn’t signed yet (bad sign this late in a contract when everyone else has) and Ben who has been poor this season.

If it’s pick 3 vs a guy who hasn’t shown commitment when the club needs it then I know what my preference is.

As someone noted though pick 3 could become pick 6 by the end of the season and that does change the argument a little bit.

wouldn't be the first bloke to play poorly coming back from a long layoff
was pretty consistent for us before that
Plus he's trying to play with Logue who he hadn't played with before
he certainly played his bum off at the weekend

question for you : would you rather have MacKay or Lachie Hansen who was pick 3 ?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

 

[hilly]

I also think we could win 3-5 games on the way back so might be more like 5-7.

Extremely optimistic.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[apollo_creed]

wouldn't be the first bloke to play poorly coming back from a long layoff
was pretty consistent for us before that
Plus he's trying to play with Logue who he hadn't played with before
he certainly played his bum off at the weekend

question for you : would you rather have MacKay or Lachie Hansen who was pick 3 ?

Had a look at the recent history of pick 3.. and its a very positive success rate. Some brilliant players, very few busts.

Any pick has a risk of not selecting a player who will make it but the higher the pick the less likely that is

 

[Sphynx]

If we had a choice between pick 3 and Ben staying I'd rather keep Ben
Pick 3 could be a bust and big defenders are like gold

better the devil you know than the draft lottery which can happen with KP players (which i'd assume we'd use pick 3 on)

The draft hasn't really been a lottery at that point for a while.

Yes there's the odd howler, but they aren't as frequent as 15 years ago.

In an open draft, pick 3 would have been enough to secure the following over the last 5 years.

Harry Sheezel
George Wardlaw
Nick Daicos
Finn Callaghan
Logan McDonald
Will Phillips
Luke Jackson
Izak Rankine
Max King
LDU



I'm sorry, but every single one of those names are worth significantly more than Ben on the open market, some of them 2-3x his value like King, Daicos, Wardlaw, Jackson, Sheezel, LDU would at the moment.

Dow is pretty much the only howler from Pick 3/4 for the last 5 years. The howler rate is about 5% imo.

The elite core of our future side is built around 4 similar picks (Sheezel, Wardlaw, Phillips, LDU). We are mad if we don't try to engineer 6 of them instead of 4 (our natural pick + the compo pick)

This year is an EXTREMELY strong top 10, we could legitimately be turning down the next King/Daicos/Jackson/Wardlaw for him.

I'd 100% let him walk IF he is offered the $800k per season.

So I'd hope we are currently just lowballing him enough, that it's close to a win/win situation in terms of signing him to unders vs losing him for Band 1 compo.

 

[Spud11]

I've wondered this myself. Just an idle thought tho. I think it’s obvious Clarko's coaching wasn't great recently either.

Could be a bit of both - they’re not sure if him, because he’s not sure of himself.
I was genuinely excited when he came to us, but after a few weeks we were back to being uninspired and insipid and a lot of the selections baffled me.
I know team selection isn’t all the head coach but I’ve been pleased with the choices finally and what we’ve seen on field has been a vast improvement.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

The draft hasn't really been a lottery at that point for a while.

Yes there's the odd howler, but they aren't as frequent as 15 years ago.

In an open draft, pick 3 would have been enough to secure the following over the last 5 years.

Harry Sheezel
George Wardlaw
Nick Daicos
Finn Callaghan
Logan McDonald
Will Phillips
Luke Jackson
Izak Rankine
Max King
LDU



I'm sorry, but every single one of those names are worth significantly more than Ben on the open market, some of them 2-3x his value like King, Daicos, Wardlaw, Jackson, Sheezel, LDU would at the moment.

Dow is pretty much the only howler from Pick 3/4 for the last 5 years. The howler rate is about 5% imo.

The elite core of our future side is built around 4 similar picks (Sheezel, Wardlaw, Phillips, LDU). We are mad if we don't try to engineer 6 of them instead of 4 (our natural pick + the compo pick)

This year is an EXTREMELY strong top 10, we could legitimately be turning down the next King/Daicos/Jackson/Wardlaw for him.

I'd 100% let him walk IF he is offered the $800k per season.

So I'd hope we are currently just lowballing him enough, that it's close to a win/win situation in terms of signing him to unders vs losing him for Band 1 compo.

You make a strong argument, but I suspect Daicos wouldn't have been available at 3 in an 'open' draft.

 

[KiwiRoo]

The draft hasn't really been a lottery at that point for a while.

Yes there's the odd howler, but they aren't as frequent as 15 years ago.

In an open draft, pick 3 would have been enough to secure the following over the last 5 years.

Harry Sheezel
George Wardlaw
Nick Daicos
Finn Callaghan
Logan McDonald
Will Phillips
Luke Jackson
Izak Rankine
Max King
LDU



I'm sorry, but every single one of those names are worth significantly more than Ben on the open market, some of them 2-3x his value like King, Daicos, Wardlaw, Jackson, Sheezel, LDU would at the moment.

Dow is pretty much the only howler from Pick 3/4 for the last 5 years. The howler rate is about 5% imo.

The elite core of our future side is built around 4 similar picks (Sheezel, Wardlaw, Phillips, LDU). We are mad if we don't try to engineer 6 of them instead of 4 (our natural pick + the compo pick)

This year is an EXTREMELY strong top 10, we could legitimately be turning down the next King/Daicos/Jackson/Wardlaw for him.

I'd 100% let him walk IF he is offered the $800k per season.

So I'd hope we are currently just lowballing him enough, that it's close to a win/win situation in terms of signing him to unders vs losing him for Band 1 compo.

yep all good points and as long as we get band 1 then its a handy situation to be in
But i would argue (discuss ) that the hit rate on high draft pick KP players isn't as high as the midfielders but agree it has got better
I also think we are rating Ben pretty harshly this year (admittedly based on some recent bad form). He's been excellent for us for a while which is why he's attracting suitors. We seem to be pretty quick to forget that

I'm just getting a bit over kicking the can down the road getting draft picks.I feel we may be better off holding onto someone who's 25 ( and pay the market rate) to mix with the plethora of draft picks we already have than just keep chasing the high draft picks
You need a mix

anyway enjoying the discussion and good to get other BF folks viewpoints !

 

[hilly]

yep all good points and as long as we get band 1 then its a handy situation to be in
But i would argue (discuss ) that the hit rate on high draft pick KP players isn't as high as the midfielders but agree it has got better
I also think we are rating Ben pretty harshly this year (admittedly based on some recent bad form). He's been excellent for us for a while which is why he's attracting suitors. We seem to be pretty quick to forget that

I'm just getting a bit over kicking the can down the road getting draft picks.I feel we may be better off holding onto someone who's 25 ( and pay the market rate) to mix with the plethora of draft picks we already have than just keep chasing the high draft picks
You need a mix

anyway enjoying the discussion and good to get other BF folks viewpoints !

Could also use the compensation pick and/or other picks to chase an established star.

 

[koshari]

2x KPB
1x KPF
1x Outside silk
Watson

That’s all I want for Christmas.

and a ruckmen in a pear tree.

 

[berniemccarthy]

wouldn't be the first bloke to play poorly coming back from a long layoff
was pretty consistent for us before that
Plus he's trying to play with Logue who he hadn't played with before
he certainly played his bum off at the weekend

question for you : would you rather have MacKay or Lachie Hansen who was pick 3 ?

Lachie. He had more footy sense.