Concussion: Is the AFL doing enough?

[Caligo]

You're clearly watching a different sport than I am.

Definitely. Utterly hilarious you think a man bends over at the waist to get the ball doesn't get a free the vast majority of the time (the same as it was 20 years ago). The only time it doesn't get a free is when the ump doesn't see it. Just like it always has been.

 

[maskmcgee]

Pretty interesting the comparison how over the course of 2 weeks boxing was basically abandoned by commentators, sponsors, tv networks and the general public and went from mainstream to niche overnight. You do have to wonder what will happen to NFL, and AFL, when a player eventually dies on the field. Will it kill off the game the way boxing was?

 

[Blackhawk42]

Pretty interesting the comparison how over the course of 2 weeks boxing was basically abandoned by commentators, sponsors, tv networks and the general public and went from mainstream to niche overnight. You do have to wonder what will happen to NFL, and AFL, when a player eventually dies on the field. Will it kill off the game the way boxing was?

I know it wasn't a head knock per say, but I will never forget the dump tackle that paralysed Alex McKinnon. If the NRL could survive something that horrific I don't fear for the longevity of the AFL from an accidental head knock. Even if it results in fatal circumstances. Let's just hope like hell it never happens!

 

[kaiserchief13]

Do the current contracts have anything about concussion in them and the player is accepting some sort of risk?

 

[Mudhoney]

I think Sicily’s suspension is a clear indication they take it seriously. I know it pissed off Hawks fans and it would have pissed me off too, but going forward we have to take dangerous tackles out of the game or the game will self implode.

 

[Mudhoney]

Having said that, we must penalise harshly players deliberately ‘slinging’ themselves so to speak both to protect themselves and the tackler.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Pretty interesting the comparison how over the course of 2 weeks boxing was basically abandoned by commentators, sponsors, tv networks and the general public and went from mainstream to niche overnight. You do have to wonder what will happen to NFL, and AFL, when a player eventually dies on the field. Will it kill off the game the way boxing was?

It doesn't bear thinking about for a player to die on the field of play to a head injury

 

[Lorenzo DMH]

You're only as good on concussion as you're last action on concussion, which for AFL was to allow a player to play in a premiership despite knocking out a player in a manner which in almost every other contact would have resulted in automatic disqualification for the game being played as well as a multiple week suspension, with the defenseless player in question having already suffered from four concussion in the space of one year in there career. All the while, we have a culture from fans, who never take into account the player unconscious on the ground, defending hits to the head saying "players who the risk" which is absurd, you would not say to a worker on strike over unsafe working conditions "you should know the risk" and none of this mentions the AFL's role as the game's governing body, where they have by all accounts done nothing to provide a framework for how to manage head collisions at the junior levels, which would start by not allowing this sport to be played by those under 14, as has been suggested by experts for years now. So to answer the question: No and it's not even close.

 

[olds]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/health/dual-premiership-player-max-rooke-claims-he-sustained-dozens-of-head-knocks-concussions/news-story/7ef15a084485c5ec22f2f96441d060e2?amp

Why would he have a class action against the AFL when GFC was paying his wage and the medical staff employed by the Geelong football club were sending him back on the field.

 

[The 747]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/health/dual-premiership-player-max-rooke-claims-he-sustained-dozens-of-head-knocks-concussions/news-story/7ef15a084485c5ec22f2f96441d060e2?amp

Why would he have a class action against the AFL when GFC was paying his wage and the medical staff employed by the Geelong football club were sending him back on the field.

Because the employment agreement is between the player, the club and the AFL.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

they have by all accounts done nothing to provide a framework for how to manage head collisions at the junior levels, which would start by not allowing this sport to be played by those under 14, as has been suggested by experts for years now

In fairness, if they did this IMO opinion then the game would never recover and it may as well be the death of AFL.

You can’t have a professional sport whereby all players are banned from playing until they are 14.

Firstly majority of players would simply have taken up other sports but that age or they have missed 10 years of developing the fundamental skills and game sense.

That’s one of those things that’s all good in a perfect cotton wool world but not practical.

 

[Lorenzo DMH]

In fairness, if they did this IMO opinion then the game would never recover and it may as well be the death of AFL.

You can’t have a professional sport whereby all players are banned from playing until they are 14.

Firstly majority of players would simply have taken up other sports but that age or they have missed 10 years of developing the fundamental skills and game sense.

That’s one of those things that’s all good in a perfect cotton wool world but not practical.

OK, first of all not doing this will be "the death of AFL", as there inaction could see them being sued out of existence. The AFL is the league, the sport is called Australian Football and kids under 14 would still be playing the sport, it just wouldn't be involving contact. Once you get to the age of 14 then you can start playing the contact version. Chris Nowinski, whose work through the Concussion Legacy Foundation is the main reason this thread existence explains the reasoning behind the proposal:

 

[Lorenzo DMH]

OK, first of all not doing this will be "the death of AFL", as there inaction could see them being sued out of existence. The AFL is the league, the sport is called Australian Football and kids under 14 would still be playing the sport, it just wouldn't be involving contact. Once you get to the age of 14 then you can start playing the contact version. Chris Nowinski, whose work through the Concussion Legacy Foundation is the main reason this thread existence explains the reasoning behind the proposal:

The worst thing this would do is mean there are less players ready for AFL at age 18, meaning the AFL pushes back the draft age to later in life. That means we are preventing 93% of cases of CTE and placing less pressure on year 12 students. Sounds like wins to me.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

OK, first of all not doing this will be "the death of AFL", as there inaction could see them being sued out of existence. The AFL is the league, the sport is called Australian Football and kids under 14 would still be playing the sport, it just wouldn't be involving contact. Once you get to the age of 14 then you can start playing the contact version. Chris Nowinski, whose work through the Concussion Legacy Foundation is the main reason this thread existence explains the reasoning behind the proposal:

Not allowing contact and not allowing the game to be played by those under 14 as first stated are two very different things which is what I was responding to in the previous post.

Perhaps it’s just a difference of wording there.

In terms of the AFL, I think they can implement rules, punishments for breaking those rules and system changes such as the mandatory rest period. Which they have on all three counts now. May have been delayed but this is really only coming to the forefront in recent years.

Apart from that, it is a contact sport so the risk of concussion cannot be removed unfortunately. Just like any other impact injury in the game.

 

[Blackhawk42]

OK, first of all not doing this will be "the death of AFL", as there inaction could see them being sued out of existence. The AFL is the league, the sport is called Australian Football and kids under 14 would still be playing the sport, it just wouldn't be involving contact. Once you get to the age of 14 then you can start playing the contact version. Chris Nowinski, whose work through the Concussion Legacy Foundation is the main reason this thread existence explains the reasoning behind the proposal:

Slightly off topic, but for those aren't aware of his personal history on the subject...

 

[Sentinel]

Buckley backs big change to concussion rules after Tuck inquest

Improved rules around full contact training, independent medical staff and an increase in the number of professionals who can remove players from the field have been recommended by the state coroner.

www.theage.com.au

"The AFL is being urged to slash the number of full contact training sessions before the 2025 pre-season as part of extensive concussion changes recommended by a coroner investigating the death of former Richmond player Shane Tuck.

State Coroner John Cain on Monday called on the AFL to limit the risk of significant head trauma to players, during both the on and off season, in the men’s and women’s games.

He said the AFL should also employ independent medical practitioners to attend all matches, who would be empowered to remove players from the field for a medical assessment and overrule club doctors.

Cain also recommended the league’s concussions spotters, who monitor games from the media box, be able to pull players from the field.

On Monday, Cain also recommended the AFL develop standardised baseline neurological testing for all players and encourage past and present participants to consider donating their brains to the Australian Sports Bank for research."

Particularly given the incident at Port Adelaide this season just gone, I'd be very surprised if the recommendation for independent doctors and concussion spotters with the power to pull players from the field isn't implemented immediately (as it should have been in place already IMO). The AFL can't possibly risk a repeat of that happening.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

FWIW the concussion-to-depression/suicide link doesn’t exist.

Retired NFL players were found to actually have lower levels of depression and suicide than the general population.

 

[Caligo]

FWIW the concussion-to-depression/suicide link doesn’t exist.

Retired NFL players were found to actually have lower levels of depression and suicide than the general population.

Surely that is not a like for like comparison. You would need to have a similar control group. Pro athletes or all nfl players or something.

General population is not representative of guys who were earning 1mil+ a year.

 

[HairyO]

FWIW the concussion-to-depression/suicide link doesn’t exist.

Retired NFL players were found to actually have lower levels of depression and suicide than the general population.

Did they also look at lower leagues where the players werent earning tens of millions of dollars ?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

AFL urged to limit contact training sessions after inquest into Tigers player’s death

AFL urged to limit contact training sessions after inquest into Tigers player’s death

www.foxsports.com.au

Pretty much sums up the coroners recommendations:

• Limit full contact training
• Employ independent doctors at games to rule on concussion
• “concussion spotters” at games to be able to pull players from the ground

 

[TheRealComptroller]

This is the transcript from a portion of an episode about CTE of a hella legit science podcast.


Enjoy.

Football: Should We Cancel It? | Science Vs
In the press, we keep hearing these reports of football players -who were once happy and healthy - falling into a deep depression and then… killing themselves. [65]



The superbowl winning safety Dave Duerson took his own life

Hilinski’s brain showed signs of CTE

Junior Seau… but his medical exam has just confirmed that it was the injury we couldn’t see that lead to his untimely demise.



So is this true? Can CTE make you depressed and kill yourself?



Well… Kevin Bieniek - our brain lab guy - told us that one reason this might be true is because in CTE, the tau tangles pop up in a part of the brain known to be important for how we think and how we control our impulses[66][67][68][69].



A lot of the individuals see symptoms that mirror this, where you get behavioural issues, people change get more aggressive, violent, and their decision making is impaired,



But that doesn’t mean that having CTE is a one way ticket to destruction. In fact, we have some good reasons to think it’s not. So, when we look at depression. Here’s what we know. In a study where Kevin looked at the medical records and brains of more than 700 people, he found that rates of depression were no different in people with CTE and those without.[70]. And when scientists study football players who are still alive - they don’t see a clear signal that football players are more depressed than the rest of us. The research is totally mixed[71][72][73][74][75][76] So one interpretation of the evidence we have so far - is that often people with CTE don’t get depressed. And on the question of suicide?.…we asked Kev, can CTE make you suicidal?



It’s a very widely debated area in the field. Yeah i can't look at a brain and say i've got a tangle here in this region they're gonna commit suicide I don’t know if CTE makes you do anything.



And from the evidence we have - it’s rare for NFL players to kill themselves[77][78]. One big study of more than 3000 former NFL players[79][80] found that 12 died by suicide- which is signficantly LESS than you ‘d expect in the general population. Kevin’s work also couldn’t find evidence that CTE made people kill themselves.[81]



KB We did not see higher rates of suicide in our cases with CTE pathology, compared to those that did not. So from the data that I’ve studied, we haven’t seen those relationships.



While all this research is very much a moving target -- and CTE probably affects different people in different ways[82][83] - what we know so far suggests that on average this disease might not be as horrifying as we’ve been hearing. Which is why some scientists want us to pump the breaks on how we talk about CTE[84][85].[86] Because they’re saying it’s very possible that when a football player gets depressed or has suicidal thoughts - it could have nothing to do with CTE.



If a football retires and get any symptoms --the first thought is that’s CTE -- that’s just not right --

 

[maskmcgee]

The question is if you get a concussion, then you avoid any sort of contact for a certain period of time, do you go 'back to normal'? If so, then the game can survive with whatever mandatory time on the sidelines, otherwise the game is doomed to die.

 

[M Malice]

Yes.

There is inherent risk in life, sport is a voluntary activity, particularly in this day and age, players know the risk, if a player deems it too risky find something else to do.

Doesn't mean we don't have medical insurance and/or dedicated funds as part of the CBA from overall game revenue for affected players.

Everyone was ignorant about it in the past, when I was following Rugby League in the 60s/70s it was a badge of honour to continue playing if you were knocked senseless, even in the schoolboy footy I played.

 

[footy75]

Delicate topic. All parties scrambling to ensure they are covered legally now and in the future.

AFL understand the enormity of head and brain injuries and are putting in all the measures they can on and off the field.

 

[Lorenzo DMH]

There is inherent risk in life, sport is a voluntary activity, particularly in this day and age, players know the risk, if a player deems it too risky find something else to do.

The whole "players know the risk" rhetoric will be mute when you have a bankrupt governing body and no one who wants to play the sport. It is so funny how people defend this, given how easy it is for us to prevent CTE, just don't hit people, especially kids, in the head.