Corona virus, Port and the AFL.

[Marat]

I don’t see the demands of health and those of the economy as being mutually exclusive. We are in crisis and we need to very carefully, and with constant refinement and adjustment, walk a tightrope that synthesises the demands of both. We are currently at the outset of an enforced global slowdown which may be unprecedented. If we continue with a rigid shutdown that extends for many months, the economic dominoes will surely begin to topple. Small bussinesses, then large bussiness, then banks, then governments could all crumble. The jobs, wealth and happiness of individuals will be the associated collateral damage. There is a risk that civil society as we know it starts to break down. How, in these circumstances, are we going to train or pay doctors, and build hospitals, and conduct research, and do all the multiplicity of other things that we do to alleviate human sickness and suffering? Unless we tread carefully, we may instead find that life for all of us is nasty, brutal and short

 

[raptalia]

A common scenario just here in Australia if we have an extended lockdown would be someone losing their job\normal salary and getting JobKeeker. Say they have 20k of savings. They pause their home loan (which continues to accrue interest) but continue to have car repayments and expenses with jobKeeper/Seeker covering say 50% or less of what they were previously earning. When we come out of lockdown in 6months time they go back to work, not long after they are canned permanently because there's no enough business anymore but now their savings have dwindled, their home loan has gone backwards and they are on NewStart with a big unemployment line infront of them. So yes the government has helped them through the lockdown but afterwards they end up screwed anyway. If the lockdown goes say 12months they'll be out of savings and quite possibly dipping into super. That is if the person has any savings at all in the first place which many will not.

The discounting of the reality of a long shutdown is perplexing, it's a huge issue that is a massive part of this crisis which to solve competently requires wait for it.... accurate ******* data. But hey, we think it's "just the flu" apparently.

The longer the shutdown the greater the pressure on the Government. I am not sure about Treasury's modelling but I imagine the 130 billion for job keeper is based on a six month shut down. Any longer than that and they have to print another 100 billion or the money runs out and the workers are stuffed. I reckon Australia will be open for business inside of six months regardless, we simply cannot afford to shut down any longer than that.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

.
they are not mutually exclusive...

Loss of life is going to happen with no movent of the economy.

It's trying to figure and balance what's best.

The balance is - someone else, who I don't know dies - no dramas lets carry on.

Someone I know dies - or I die - let's get tough and lock down.

It's as simple as that.

The more guernies you see go to a temporary morgues or straight to the crematorium because there is no room in the morgues, the more the balance shifts to saving lives over saving the economy.

 

[Magus]

The Federal Government has written to youtube asking they take down the 5g causes coronavirus delusion.

This will just strengthen some people's confirmation bias.

 

[Powerage]

What's your end game here? What have you got to gain by trolling a thread about coronavirus or do you just naturally like irritating people?

Yes, I am sowing discord into this thread (trolling) simply because I have an opinion that is different to you, the moral majority (apparently). I must therefore have a nefarious end game unless my sole intent is to irritate anyone who disagrees with me (and must therefore be right).

I have a simple solution for anyone who really believes I just post because I like irritating people. Believe me I don't give a **** if you take it (BLOCK ME).

 

[NEGAN]

I don’t see the demands of health and those of the economy as being mutually exclusive. We are in crisis and we need to very carefully, and with constant refinement and adjustment, walk a tightrope that synthesises the demands of both. We are currently at the outset of an enforced global slowdown which may be unprecedented. If we continue with a rigid shutdown that extends for many months, the economic dominoes will surely begin to topple. Small bussinesses, then large bussiness, then banks, then governments could all crumble. The jobs, wealth and happiness of individuals will be the associated collateral damage. There is a risk that civil society as we know it starts to break down. How, in these circumstances, are we going to train or pay doctors, and build hospitals, and conduct research, and do all the multiplicity of other things that we do to alleviate human sickness and suffering? Unless we tread carefully, we may instead find that life for all of us is nasty, brutal and short

This is a very good snapshot ....

We still don't even know the full effect that this is having on people pensions yet. And the knock on effect from that

 

[raman]

Yes, I am sowing discord into this thread (trolling) simply because I have an opinion that is different to you, the moral majority (apparently). I must therefore have a nefarious end game unless my sole intent is to irritate anyone who disagrees with me (and must therefore be right).

I have a simple solution for anyone who really believes I just post because I like irritating people. Believe me I don't give a fu** if you take it (BLOCK ME).

So what do you think is the nefarious motivation behind the inaccurate Covid-19 morbidity data?

 

[Del165198]

Yes, I am sowing discord into this thread (trolling) simply because I have an opinion that is different to you, the moral majority (apparently). I must therefore have a nefarious end game unless my sole intent is to irritate anyone who disagrees with me (and must therefore be right).

I have a simple solution for anyone who really believes I just post because I like irritating people. Believe me I don't give a fu** if you take it (BLOCK ME).

I was talking to strappy tape

 

[Duckimus Prime]

America just has to be number 1 at everything?

We've got a trememdous number of deaths. Huge. Massive. Not weak like the Spanish Flu.

I was talking to strappy tape

Or maybe you just made a discovery...

 

[Powerage]

For the third time in as many minutes... why are they doing it?

Not telling. Its a secret. You would have to attend our next world domination meeting and I am not telling you where or when it is

 

[chiwigi]

The longer the shutdown the greater the pressure on the Government. I am not sure about Treasury's modelling but I imagine the 130 billion for job keeper is based on a six month shut down. Any longer than that and they have to print another 100 billion or the money runs out and the workers are stuffed. I reckon Australia will be open for business inside of six months regardless, we simply cannot afford to shut down any longer than that.

I agree, they’ve budgeted for 6 months to flatten the curve, then after that we have to take the hit.
Let’s hope as a nation we can hold our nerve for the six months to make it worthwhile.

 

[Lagooner]

The balance is - someone else, who I don't know dies - no dramas lets carry on.

Someone I know dies - or I die - let's get tough and lock down.

It's as simple as that.

The more guernies you see go to a temporary morgues or straight to the crematorium because there is no room in the morgues, the more the balance shifts to saving lives over saving the economy.

Yep I called monkeysphere on this ages ago. Some people just won’t get with the program unless it’s happening to them or someone in their bubble and by then it’s obviously way too late.

 

[NEGAN]

The balance is - someone else, who I don't know dies - no dramas lets carry on.

Someone I know dies - or I die - let's get tough and lock down.

It's as simple as that.

I don't agree it is as simple as that.




The economy crashing is going to effect me just as much as this virus,
I already know the virus is effecting me and my loved ones and it's absolutely an unfair assumption to imply that I do not care about the virus as long as it doesn't effect me.

I also am concerned about the future knock on effects and the possibilities of a prolonged shut down of the economy and the future impacts that it's going to have on me and my loved ones too as well as everyone else.


The balance is making sure our actions we take now does not ruin our future.

 

[raman]

Not telling. Its a secret. You would have to attend our next world domination meeting and I am not telling you where or when it is

Oh I already know what it is. I was just wanting at least one of you to sack up, come out and say it.

 

[bomberclifford]

I don't agree it is as simple as that.

The economy crashing is going to effect me just as much as this virus,
I already know the virus is effecting me and my loved ones and it's absolutely an unfair assumption to imply that I do not care about the virus as long as it doesn't effect me.

I also am concerned about the future knock on effects and the possibilities of shut down of the economy and the future impacts that it's going to have on me and my loved ones too as well as everyone else.

The balance is making sure our actions we take now does not ruin our future.

It’s also an unfair assumption that anyone advocating for a strong lockdown doesn’t care about the economic impact.

 

[raman]

It’s also an unfair assumption that anyone advocating for a strong lockdown doesn’t care about the economic impact.

Actually laughed out loud at this. That's where we are. Things that obvious need to be explained.

 

[StrappingTape]

Oh I already know what it is. I was just wanting at least one of you to sack up, come out and say it.

No you are being deliberately obtuse when you have had the answer multiple times. You should have stopped when you were pretending to know something because you schedule staffing because the 19 people we have in hospitals here are smashing the wards but then you got found to be full of shit on that. Then you posted a link again got found to be full of shit but you were "just trolling".

 

[StrappingTape]

Actually laughed out loud at this. That's where we are. Things that obvious need to be explained.

and yet no one in this entire thread here has argued against the current strong lockdown?

 

[NEGAN]

It’s also an unfair assumption that anyone advocating for a strong lockdown doesn’t care about the economic impact.

This isn't an assumption...

Everyone that posts about concerns to the economy gets attacked....

 

[NEGAN]

and yet no one in this entire thread here has argued against the current strong lockdown?

This,

you post one thing about the economy you have 10 people busting balls.

 

[StrappingTape]

It’s also an unfair assumption that anyone advocating for a strong lockdown doesn’t care about the economic impact.

This,

you post one thing about the economy you have 10 people busting balls.

it's because you clearly aren't saying what you are really implying. You think it's "Just the Flu" don't you!

 

[raman]

No you are being deliberately obtuse when you have had the answer multiple times. You should have stopped when you were pretending to know something because you schedule staffing because the 19 people we have in hospitals here are smashing the wards but then you got found to be full of shit on that. Then you posted a link again got found to be full of shit but you were "just trolling".

For the second or third time, I never said I was trolling. In fact I admitted that you were probably right that the link I referred to (which was not material to anything) was a troll article. Comprehension.

I didn't pretend to know anything. I said that the medical facilities I serve are full of patients in a way that is significantly disproportionate for the season. Comprehension.

So again, give me a straight answer. Do you think the numbers are being fudged with an intent, and if so, what's the intent? No amount of bleating will hide the fact that you've been avoiding that question.

 

[Del165198]

3 accounts, 1 person
Bring back barking spider/piston broke

 

[NoddyHolder]

I'm on the side of save lives now but don't want to dismiss the concerns of those who worry about the economic perils and the lives this may cost in the future. So trying to be positive, while sitting in my traditional thinking place, I've come up with something I'd like people to consider.


Now could be the time for an exciting rethink of economics. Neoliberal capitalism is inadequate for getting us through an existential crisis like this pandemic. Hence pretty much every government in the world is turning to socialist policies (many going against their fundamental instincts) to help people and businesses survive right now.


This covid crisis is showing us all that money is fairy dust. Every country in the world is affected and it is costing every country trillions. But when we get to somewhere near the end of it all the amount of real, tangible resources in the world will pretty much be the same. Food production, commodities, manufacturing, natural resources, means of production, availability of labour, whatever, will all still exist. It’s just this money bullshit that will be a problem. So…


The NoddyHolder-from-bigfooty simplistic economic solution for simple people that could save the world in the future and allow us to stay focused on saving lives now:


When the crisis is effectively over, maybe in one year’s time, we forgive all monetary debts – national, personal, business, everything - and every adult on the planet has placed into a bank account of their choosing something like 100k US dollars, tax free. Nothing gets taken from anyone, just debts forgiven. Everyone everywhere has enough to get by for a couple of years and we can all start again without the fear of crushing debt, homelessness, starvation, pestilence, erectile disfunction, whatever. Governments everywhere will have time to reset and consider things like what to do with tax systems, re-establishing some local manufacturing, providing an environment for entrepreneurs of all persuasions to thrive, ensuring a social safety net for everyone, providing the very best conditions and resources for medical research, etc. People can buy houses, start a business, go on holiday, start a band. We can even all get nice haircuts for the first time in a year.

(Sorry - I haven't prepared a table or graph to illustrate this new economic theory)


I think it can work.

 

[StrappingTape]

So again, give me a straight answer. Do you think the numbers are being fudged with an intent, and if so, what's the intent? No amount of bleating will hide the fact that you've been avoiding that question.

and I've answered and answered. Feel free to read back through pages and page until you get it but you seem intent on looking for the meaning behind the meaning because it must be 'its just the flu'.