Corona virus, Port and the AFL.

[Duckimus Prime]

News just 2 or 3 days behind the Washington Post. Their article was discussed over the last few pages.

Uncle Rupert's Australian arm now pushing the same as his American one...

And then the US arm will write some story based on the Australian story, "Australian media has reported..." Just like they've done with news.com.au here.

And then it'll be discussed as being more credible because look how many "different" news services are reporting it.

And then with all of Rupert's media arms reporting on this, they'll then switch to asking "Why isn't the government addressing this thing that is widely reported in the media".

And no, Uncle Rupert doesn't have too much control of media at all.

 

[StrappingTape]

The wages of Commonwealth public servants other than their politicised and grossly overpaid departmental heads have been largely frozen since the Abbott Government came to power in 2013. The departmental heads, who get regular salary increases and bonuses from their Coalition masters, having been playing hardball in dragging out the collective bargaining negotiations.

Interestingly, the Government Ministers, their bloated number of ministerial staff and advisers, their overpaid and useless consultants and contractors for outsourced functions are not taking a pay cut. Where is the Parliament when we need it to debate these issues. Oh, that's right, Australia is one of the very few countries which has suspended its Parliament, and where the media is not even concerned about this.

So your saying loads of government employees are not taking a pay cut and are overpaid? The vast majority of professional role state and federal government employees (obviously non health related) are\were overpaid already and the fact is that this isn't effecting any of them. When there's a whole bunch of them literally with nothing to do right now like your contracted advisers, consultants etc. why are they not on Job Keeper for the next 6 months too? I think it's a massive problem that the people making the decisions about our economy and the impacts of the virus are completely inoculated from any of the impacts of the virus or the outcomes of their decisions.

Wages haven't risen much for the rest of Australia since the Abbott years either our economy just isn't and hasn't been very robust, it was up shit creek before this so it's not a public vs private thing there the cash just isn't there. What you can roundly thank is government policy for that from both sides.

 

[StrappingTape]

Uncle Rupert's Australian arm now pushing the same as his American one...

It was on CNN last night. Did Rupert make them run it?

 

[Schulzenfest]

It’s a shit news story.
Those getting proud and nationalistic about it are often the same campaigners who voted Tory in the first place.

It's like those 'kids heroically raise money for dad's cancer treatment with lemonade stand!' type stories you always read coming out of America. Like, good on them, but the larger and sadder point is that they live in a society which forces them into in that position in the first place.

 

[PAFC66]

**** where did those 40 positives come from?

Yesterday's 6468 suddenly became 6508, looks like 29 were from NSW.

Community transfer. It's not just going to disappear. Spike over Easter probably or some aged care cluster.

 

[Canoogs]

11 came from Tassie after they shut the books at 5pm. Think that was announced at 8pm.

From ABC live page last night
Tasmania has confirmed another 11 cases of coronavirus, bringing the state’s total to 180.
Ten of these are from the north-west where authorities are dealing with an outbreak, and one is from the South.
Three of these are staff members of the North West Regional Hospital in Burnie and/or the North West Private Hospital.
Four are close contacts of a previously confirmed case linked to the north-west outbreak.
Sophie Meixner yesterday at 8:54pm

Pretty standard every day there is an official announcement near the end of the working day and then after that more positives happens as people get tests out of normal business hours and confirmations come back from pathology services outside of business hours.

It's more murky than that. NSW announce there's at 8am EST, but that's based on 8pm the night before, so any positives in between aren't reported. Victoria's are even more nebulous on the timing of when the numbers are actually from. The general timeline of reporting of cases is NSW first up at 8am, Victoria and Qld between 9-11am, then SA and WA at 3-4pm. Finally Tasmania reports around 8-9pm.

The Fed's daily report is based on the numbers sent in by the States at 3pm. So this reflects all the numbers from the States, except Tasmania who update much later and get rolled into the following day's numbers.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Ok Worldometers are counting the 3,778 probable cases in NY City and elsewhere in US from now on. They now have deaths 13 April 1,535, 14th 6,185 and 15th 2,618.

John Hopkins is counting them. New York State website hasn't. New York City still reporting confirmed deaths and probable deaths as separate numbers. See

COVID-19: Latest Data - NYC Health

www1.nyc.gov

Changes in US Data following new CDC guidelines on "Case" and "Death" definition (April 14, 2020) - Worldometer

www.worldometers.info

Changes in United States Data following the new CDC guidelines on "Case" and "Death" definition
Following new CDC guidelines: "As of April 14, 2020, CDC case counts and death counts include both confirmed and probable cases and deaths. This change was made to reflect an interim COVID-19 position statement issued by the Council for State and Territorial Epidemiologists on April 5, 2020. The position statement included a case definition and made COVID-19 a nationally notifiable disease.

A confirmed case or death is defined by meeting confirmatory laboratory evidence for COVID-19. A probable case or death is defined by i) meeting clinical criteria AND epidemiologic evidence with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID-19; or ii) meeting presumptive laboratory evidence AND either clinical criteria OR epidemiologic evidence; or iii) meeting vital records criteria with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID19" [source]

This change is a further example of one of the many reasons why the label "confirmed cases" (used by some to designate total cases) is incorrect (see definitions for more details). The US CDC (and Worldometer) has always used the label "Total Cases." Canada is another example where the "total number includes publicly reported confirmed and probable cases [source]

On April 14, New York City reported 3,778 additional deaths that have occurred since March 11 and have been classified as "probable," defined as follows: “decedent [...] had no known positive laboratory test for SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) but the death certificate lists as a cause of death “COVID-19” or an equivalent" [source].

From April 14 onward, New York City has provided - and will continue to provide - the updated number of probable deaths in its daily reports.

On April 15, in the daily press briefing, New York Governor Cuomo said that "we will begin reporting all categories of fatalities pursuant to new CDC guidelines and are contacting facilities to get updated numbers." He also added that there may be additional people who died that have not been counted because not in a hospital. In the April 15 update, the New York State Department of Health official website had still not included (nor reported separately) the additional "probable" deaths reported by New York City the day before. On April 16, when asked about the issue, New York State officials commented on their decision to not add the New York City probable deaths in the official State count saying that probable deaths have been reported by New York City in a new and separate category, without adding the two numbers (confirmed and probable) together into a single category.

The state of Ohio is an example of a state that has started reporting total cases and deaths correctly, in accordance with the new CDC guidelines. On its "Overview dashboard" it show total cases and total deaths, while also providing the breakdown between confirmed and probable, with the note "CDC Expanded Case Definition (Probable)" and "CDC Expanded Death Definition (Probable)."

Worldometer is also correctly following the new CDC guideline of including both probable and confirmed in the total case and death counts.

As with similar instances in the past (with other countries), we have added the additional data on the day it was reported. If and when the historical distribution is provided, we will make the needed adjustments.

Finally, since every probable death necessarily implies a probable case, logic mandates that the adjustment be made to both deaths and cases, and not only to deaths. We have now adjusted April 14, April 15, and current data for New York State and the United States accordingly.

 

[NEGAN]

Ok Worldometers are counting the 3,778 probable cases in NY City and elsewhere in US from now on. They now have deaths 13 April 1,535, 14th 6,185 and 15th 2,618.

John Hopkins is counting them. New York State website hasn't. New York City still reporting confirmed deaths and probable deaths as separate numbers. See

COVID-19: Latest Data - NYC Health

www1.nyc.gov

Changes in US Data following new CDC guidelines on "Case" and "Death" definition (April 14, 2020) - Worldometer

www.worldometers.info

Changes in United States Data following the new CDC guidelines on "Case" and "Death" definition
Following new CDC guidelines: "As of April 14, 2020, CDC case counts and death counts include both confirmed and probable cases and deaths. This change was made to reflect an interim COVID-19 position statement issued by the Council for State and Territorial Epidemiologists on April 5, 2020. The position statement included a case definition and made COVID-19 a nationally notifiable disease.

A confirmed case or death is defined by meeting confirmatory laboratory evidence for COVID-19. A probable case or death is defined by i) meeting clinical criteria AND epidemiologic evidence with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID-19; or ii) meeting presumptive laboratory evidence AND either clinical criteria OR epidemiologic evidence; or iii) meeting vital records criteria with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID19" [source]

This change is a further example of one of the many reasons why the label "confirmed cases" (used by some to designate total cases) is incorrect (see definitions for more details). The US CDC (and Worldometer) has always used the label "Total Cases." Canada is another example where the "total number includes publicly reported confirmed and probable cases [source]

On April 14, New York City reported 3,778 additional deaths that have occurred since March 11 and have been classified as "probable," defined as follows: “decedent [...] had no known positive laboratory test for SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) but the death certificate lists as a cause of death “COVID-19” or an equivalent" [source].

From April 14 onward, New York City has provided - and will continue to provide - the updated number of probable deaths in its daily reports.

On April 15, in the daily press briefing, New York Governor Cuomo said that "we will begin reporting all categories of fatalities pursuant to new CDC guidelines and are contacting facilities to get updated numbers." He also added that there may be additional people who died that have not been counted because not in a hospital. In the April 15 update, the New York State Department of Health official website had still not included (nor reported separately) the additional "probable" deaths reported by New York City the day before. On April 16, when asked about the issue, New York State officials commented on their decision to not add the New York City probable deaths in the official State count saying that probable deaths have been reported by New York City in a new and separate category, without adding the two numbers (confirmed and probable) together into a single category.

The state of Ohio is an example of a state that has started reporting total cases and deaths correctly, in accordance with the new CDC guidelines. On its "Overview dashboard" it show total cases and total deaths, while also providing the breakdown between confirmed and probable, with the note "CDC Expanded Case Definition (Probable)" and "CDC Expanded Death Definition (Probable)."

Worldometer is also correctly following the new CDC guideline of including both probable and confirmed in the total case and death counts.

As with similar instances in the past (with other countries), we have added the additional data on the day it was reported. If and when the historical distribution is provided, we will make the needed adjustments.

Finally, since every probable death necessarily implies a probable case, logic mandates that the adjustment be made to both deaths and cases, and not only to deaths. We have now adjusted April 14, April 15, and current data for New York State and the United States accordingly.

You answered my original question of "what does this mean" flawlessly... thanks

 

[raptalia]

Evidence points to poorly equipped lab in Wuhan as real source of coronavirus
New evidence has emerged that the coronavirus ravaging the globe may have escaped from a poorly equipped lab in Wuhan, China, where researchers were conducting risky viral disease experiments in the years leading up to the pandemic.
In March 2018, the US dispatched science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who issued two “sensitive” diplomatic cables about inadequate safety measures at the lab, the W ashington Post reported, citing intelligence sources.

Virus from lab doing ‘risky experiments’

New evidence has emerged that the coronavirus ravaging the globe may have escaped from a poorly equipped lab in Wuhan, China, where researchers were conducting risky viral disease experiments in the years leading up to the pandemic.

www.news.com.au

OK so what is the new evidence? As of yesterday...

Asked about the intelligence on NBC's "TODAY" show, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said, "this is something we've been watching closely now for some time," adding that the results of the investigation are thus far "inconclusive."

and...

Joint Chief of Staff Chairman Mark Milley acknowledged this week that US intelligence is taking "a hard look" at the question of whether the novel coronavirus originated in a lab.
"I would just say, at this point, it's inconclusive although the weight of evidence seems to indicate natural (origin). But we don't know for certain," Milley told reporters on Tuesday.

Milley's comments were echoed Thursday by Defense secretary Mark Esper, who told NBC News the government is looking closely at the issue of the origin of the virus, but it hasn't reached any concrete conclusions.
"A majority of the views right now is that (the virus) is natural -- it was organic," Esper said, but noted additional investigative work needs to be done.

Obviously the Washington Post knows more than the Government. If the Joint Chief of Staff and the Defense Secretary are not convinced then who are the intelligence sources that are being cited ?

In any case if you look at that article it is all about risk assessment and not much about proof. It even reads, There’s no evidence to suggest the coronavirus currently cutting its way across the globe was engineered in a lab — but that does not exclude the possibility it escaped from the Wuhan Institute of Virology or another similar laboratory miles away in the Chinese city.

If there is so called 'new evidence' put it on the table. The article may have an element of truth to it but in the absence of any new evidence it is just as likely that...

The theory has been pushed by supporters of the President, including some congressional Republicans, who are eager to deflect criticisms of Trump's handling of the pandemic.

US explores possibility that coronavirus spread started in Chinese lab, not a market

US intelligence and national security officials say the United States government is looking into the possibility that the novel coronavirus spread from a Chinese laboratory rather than a market, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter who caution it is premature to draw any...

cnnphilippines.com

 

[OneGreatClub]

Evidence points to poorly equipped lab in Wuhan as real source of coronavirus
New evidence has emerged that the coronavirus ravaging the globe may have escaped from a poorly equipped lab in Wuhan, China, where researchers were conducting risky viral disease experiments in the years leading up to the pandemic.
In March 2018, the US dispatched science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who issued two “sensitive” diplomatic cables about inadequate safety measures at the lab, the W ashington Post reported, citing intelligence sources.

Virus from lab doing ‘risky experiments’

New evidence has emerged that the coronavirus ravaging the globe may have escaped from a poorly equipped lab in Wuhan, China, where researchers were conducting risky viral disease experiments in the years leading up to the pandemic.

www.news.com.au

News.com is another dodgy website

 

[chiwigi]

He did raise 20 million pounds so plenty of people must have thought it worth while. The UK is doing it tough and they need a pick me up and if this the way they get it good luck to them.

They need a ‘pick me up’ because Tory campaigners have been trying to destroy and profit off the NHS for the past 40 years!
They did this by defunding it and running it into the ground so they could pick bits the cheap!
It’s a ****ing disgrace, and those campaigners who applaud this guy, yet vote for the pricks destroying the NHS can go and get ****ed the stupid ****ing ****ers!

the NHS I the greatest thing any country has ever done, anyone who threatens it deserves as much ire a I can produce, one of the tricks for Brexit was to sell it off piecemeal to the Americans.

 

[raptalia]

They need a ‘pick me up’ because Tory campaigners have been trying to destroy and profit off the NHS for the past 40 years!
They did this by defunding it and running it into the ground so they could pick bits the cheap!
It’s a ******* disgrace, and those campaigners who applaud this guy, yet vote for the pricks destroying the NHS can go and get f’ed the stupid ******* f***ers!

the NHS I the greatest thing any country has ever done, anyone who threatens it deserves as much ire a I can produce, one of the tricks for Brexit was to sell it off piecemeal to the Americans.

That might be true but it doesn't and shouldn't detract from what this old guy has done. The 20 million raised is going to the NHS.

 

[chiwigi]

That might be true but it doesn't and shouldn't detract from what this old guy has done. The 20 million raised is going to the NHS.

He’s a great guy, but the sad thing is that it’s needed and that he felt it necessary because of the underfunding.

 

[StrappingTape]

The major issue the NHS has and it's the same we have here, the money is sucked up by bureaucrats before it gets to the actual hospitals/clinics etc. Just look at our new hospital schmozzle.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Some supporters of President Donald Trump have latched onto a new villain to attack during the COVID-19 pandemic: Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates.

As The Daily Beast’s Will Sommer reports, Trump-loving social media personalities Diamond & Silk this week uncorked a bizarre conspiratorial rant about Gates working to develop a vaccine for the coronavirus to use unsuspecting Americans as “guinea pigs” in a plan to “rule the world with vaccines.”

Trump supporters fear Bill Gates wants to make a COVID-19 vaccine to secretly implant them with brain chips

Some supporters of President Donald Trump have latched onto a new villain to attack during the COVID-19 pandemic: Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates.As The Daily Beast's Will Sommer reports, Trump-loving social media personalities Diamond & Silk this week uncorked a bizarre conspiratorial rant...

www.rawstory.com

 

[StrappingTape]

wow the daily beast vs diamond and silk at the same time I read that Kirk Cameron is launching a COVID-19 fundraiser concert. We've hit peak COVID

 

[StrappingTape]

Uncle Rupert's Australian arm now pushing the same as his American one...

And then the US arm will write some story based on the Australian story, "Australian media has reported..." Just like they've done with news.com.au here.

And then it'll be discussed as being more credible because look how many "different" news services are reporting it.

And then with all of Rupert's media arms reporting on this, they'll then switch to asking "Why isn't the government addressing this thing that is widely reported in the media".

And no, Uncle Rupert doesn't have too much control of media at all.

By citing the Wapost? So did he ring them up asking them to kick it off a week ago? lol. Did he ring CNN, MSNBC, BBC etc getting them to start running stories on it now to?

Now we find out that the bats that it comes from aren't even sold or anywhere near that wet market. How the **** does this info with all the journalist in the wests resources, not get out for 3 months ffs. I would like to know specifically how it started and would like the world to test China's words until we can conclude for sure just for the future avoidance of this shit show.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

By citing the Wapost? So did he ring them up asking them to kick it off a week ago? lol. Did he ring CNN, MSNBC, BBC etc getting them to start running stories on it now to?

The Washington Post did not run with the same story that Fox has run.

The BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52318539) is reporting on a theory being spun in the media. Notice how it even talks about Fox promoting the theory.

CNN is also reporting on the media theories.

US explores possibility that coronavirus spread started in Chinese lab, not a market

US intelligence and national security officials say the United States government is looking into the possibility that the novel coronavirus spread from a Chinese laboratory rather than a market, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter who caution it is premature to draw any...

edition.cnn.com

The lab theory has been denied by the Chinese government and many outside experts have also cast doubt on the idea, CNN has previously reported.

CNN also has

A source close to the White House coronavirus task force also cautioned that "every time there is an outbreak someone proposes that the virus or other pathogen came out of a lab."

This is nothing like the article that Fox ran promoting that the carona virus came from the Wuhan lab and this has been a massive cover up from the Chinese Government.

 

[Power Girl]

You know what is more depressing than being unable to socialise it’s coming on here reading conspiracy theories and quotes from unstable Americans.

do you think sanfl will introduce an U19s seeing as the U18s missed their season?

 

[Granny Duurs is Lovely]

By citing the Wapost? So did he ring them up asking them to kick it off a week ago? lol. Did he ring CNN, MSNBC, BBC etc getting them to start running stories on it now to?

Now we find out that the bats that it comes from aren't even sold or anywhere near that wet market. How the fu** does this info with all the journalist in the wests resources, not get out for 3 months ffs. I would like to know specifically how it started and would like the world to test China's words until we can conclude for sure just for the future avoidance of this shit show.

That's not the case the though, bat can be sold at that wet market in the wildlife section. This Time Article from much earlier this year does a good job explaining the wet market (based on a local source mind you) and also points out that its much too early to know the origins of the virus. Compare it to Ebola for example:

"While scientists first thought that Ebola started with the consumption of bat meat in a village of south-eastern Guinea, they now believe that the two-year-old girl known as Child Zero was likely infected via bat droppings that contaminated an object she put in her mouth. "

This is one of those cases where the most likely explanation is also the most obvious - it got transmitted from animals the same way it did last time with SARS (wet market) and MERS (bats -> middle east camels -> humans). We have a historical precedent, evidence it is a natural virus, a patient zero location that matches precedent and is a known source of diseases - what more do you want?

 

[raptalia]

That's rich. Peter Dutton calling for transparency from the Chinese Government.

What about some transparency from the Australian Government on the reasons why ABF didn't check 2700 passengers from the Ruby Princess ?
How is it 2700 passengers, 800 of them foreign nationals, can disembark a cruise ship without any checks?
Why is there one rule for our airports and another for our ports?
How is it these people were allowed to disembark in a time of pandemic when the ship had radioed the Department of Agriculture that it had a non diagnosed illness on board ?
How is it that no one in the Department of Agriculture passed the message to anyone in Home Affairs or anyone in NSW Health?
How is it that in a democracy the Coalition, of which you are part, will not allow Parliament to sit so that these and other questions can be asked?

 

[raptalia]

Apparently the spike in NSW positive tests is due to the aged Care cluster where an infected care worker reported for work for three days.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Man in his 40s becomes youngest coronavirus fatality in Australia

The 42-year-old crew member from the Artania cruise ship, which is docked in WA and has been ordered to leave Australia, has died in Royal Perth Hospital, becoming Australia's youngest coronavirus fatality.

www.abc.net.au

Update from SA
One person in South Australia tested positive overnight, and that person was caught in the screening that the Government set up at Qantas.

"The person today is a person in their 50s and they have a history of overseas travel.

"This is not about somebody who has worked in the Qantas area that we have been particularly concerned about, the three sections at the Adelaide airport, but it happens to be somebody who was tested but has actually, we believe, contracted the illness as part of international travel."

There have been 435 diagnoses in the states, 331 (76 per cent) of which have recovered. So that's 104 active cases currently.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

From ABC live

Artania cruise ship crew member dies
A man in his 40s from the Artania cruise ship died at Royal Perth Hospital.

It brings the number of COVID-19 deaths in WA to 7.

 

[Capital Power]

That's rich. Peter Dutton calling for transparency from the Chinese Government.

What about some transparency from the Australian Government on the reasons why ABF didn't check 2700 passengers from the Ruby Princess ?
How is it 2700 passengers, 800 of them foreign nationals, can disembark a cruise ship without any checks?
Why is there one rule for our airports and another for our ports?
How is it these people were allowed to disembark in a time of pandemic when the ship had radioed the Department of Agriculture that it had a non diagnosed illness on board ?
How is it that no one in the Department of Agriculture passed the message to anyone in Home Affairs or anyone in NSW Health?
How is it that in a democracy the Coalition, of which you are part, will not allow Parliament to sit so that these and other questions can be asked?

To be fair this particular issue is unlikely to lie with ABF. It's more to do with three separate agencies being responsible for "border security" and no chain of command existing between them. Throw in a tourist operator desperate to unload their passengers and a state government not knowing which way was up, it's all a bit of a mess. Perhaps one good thing to come out of this would be a much clearer border security hierarchy.