Coronavirus 2020 / Worldwide (Stats live update in OP) Part 7: This Thread is for Reasonable ON TOPIC Discussion

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In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference. The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
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Cruyff14 said:
Using the Shrine of Remembrance as a place to push their fascist views is one of the most vile and disturbing acts we will see in our lifetime.

Those who served our country did so to ensure those they left behind and future generations could enjoy freedom and peace. They sacrificed their own life to make the lives of others better. They did what had to be done to protect the greater good, knowing full and well that they may pay the ultimate price.

They did not complain about mandatory conscription, and they would be embarrassed by those using the Shrine as means to complain about mandatory vaccination. They stood for mateship and camaraderie, not for anarchy and disregard to the law.

Those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for our country, thank you, and rest assured that the wider public is embarrassed and disgusted by the actions of those callous and disgusting human beings.
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Turn it up. They were sitting on some steps.
 
BuddysBiggestFan said:
Personally I found the heavy handed tactics of the police this afternoon disgusting. It was a peaceful protest on the steps of the Shrine. Protesters would have left eventually like yesterday. Rubber bullets being used and capsicum was disgraceful. Aren’t we in a democracy?
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After around 4 hours of the live stream showing negotiations between the police and protesters, where it was stated constantly you won’t be arrested or anything if you leave via st Kilda road, suddenly they would only leave down the middle of the surrounding area of the shrine. The people left were not leaving while the police were there. What else was being achieved by staying at the shrine? Why did they head to the shrine as well? If they were all about respecting the fallen soldiers and knew that the police would follow, wouldn’t that be the last place they should go?
 
BuddysBiggestFan said:
Turn it up. They were sitting on some steps.
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Really? Because the footage on the news indicated otherwise.

Think you need to take your hard hat off and start thinking with some objectivity.

The Shrine is a place you do not go to make a point.

Disgusting.
 

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Ray Jay Johnson said:
After around 4 hours of the live stream showing negotiations between the police and protesters, where it was stated constantly you won’t be arrested or anything if you leave via st Kilda road, suddenly they would only leave down the middle of the surrounding area of the shrine. The people left were not leaving while the police were there. What else was being achieved by staying at the shrine? Why did they head to the shrine as well? If they were all about respecting the fallen soldiers and knew that the police would follow, wouldn’t that be the last place they should go?
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Why aren’t you allowed to stay at the shrine? Do we have a curfew? Were they harming anyone? They would have left when it got dark. Give me a spell.
 
So the Shrine itself has an interesting history.
Like how it was built, who built it, how they got paid or didn't get paid
How much the general public wanted it at the time etc

The romanticism of war aside the cops basically used rubber bullets or pepper shot on a bunch of idiots that didn't want to go home today.

Like that's the end result.

I don't think I'd agree with the politics or views of a single person there today. Lots of racist fascist Nazi types in among the generally angry and conspiracy anti vaxx types

But this is what we can look forward too if we get angry or disagree with the government on anything publicly ourselves in the future so yeah take note
 
BuddysBiggestFan said:
Why aren’t you allowed to stay at the shrine? Do we have a curfew? Were they harming anyone? They would have left when it got dark. Give me a spell.
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Well, yeah we do have a curfew as well as a 10k limit on travel, but regardless why was the shrine the right way place to protest? The RSL and manager of the shrine released statements straight away saying that it was disrespectful for any protest to be held there.
 
Ray Jay Johnson said:
Well, yeah we do have a curfew as well as a 10k limit on travel, but regardless why was the shrine the right way place to protest? The RSL and manager of the shrine released statements straight away saying that it was disrespectful for any protest to be held there.
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They could have kept walking down St. Kilda road and off the pier at the end.
 
HirdsTheWord said:
Maybe your criticism should lie with the Limo driver who stared this sh*t by not following the proper procedures he was supposed too. Not the people who were left to clean up his mess.
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This is the key thing for me, the situation around the limo driver, and it has very similar themes to the situation in Hotel Quarantine in Melbourne last year.

It seems like there was poor oversight of the drivers of the air crew, just like there was poor enforcement and oversights of the standard of behaviour with the security guards in HQ in Victoria last year. That lack of oversight also stemmed from the companies contracted to complete these jobs, and those tasked in Government with oversight of the contracted companies.
Given the risk of the front line workers in these positions, it's sounds very much like NSW authorities dropped the ball on the oversight of them, inexcusable after seeing the debacle in Victoria last year.

I don't view the limo driver as a credible witness, but he has spoken to the media a few times. I haven't seen any confirmation to say he was vaccinated at the time of the infection and he claims he was wearing gloves and a mask. That said, he was fined a few days before he spoke to Channel 7 for not wearing one. :think:

7news.com.au

‘I don’t want to be known for COVID-19’: Limo driver believed to be Sydney’s ‘patient zero’ speaks

‘I don’t know where I picked it up but I followed the rules.’
7news.com.au 7news.com.au

He also previously claimed to have caught it at a cafe from someone else who was coughing, even though the genomics link it to Indianapolis in the US, the same city which is home to Fedex's 2nd largest hub, the place where the Fedex flight crew he drove to HQ from a Fedex cargo flight, originated from. :think:

As to NSW after they detected the infection, it's difficult to judge. The prior experience of the Delta variant in the community was the infamous BBQ man. Given what we know about how infectious the strain is and what we've seen since, it's extraordinary that the unknown person who originally gave it to BBQ man, didn't infect anyone else in the community that we know of. I believe BBQ man only infected his wife and no one else in the community got sick, at least as far as we are aware.
And this lack of spread was during a period where there was no masking and very loose restrictions in place.

The 2nd community cluster was the West Melbourne primary school, which was eventually linked to Victorian Hotel Quarantine, but we don't know the missing link between the returned traveler and the family who got sick first. It also happened when we were under lockdown from the Kappa outbreak.

Did that lead to a false sense of security about the danger of its infectiousness in NSW, and with 'experts' more generally?

Either way the original breakdown was due to the poor enforcement of safety and testing standards for the frontline workers. After that, there are contributing factors that made the second line of defence break (Victoria had almost non-existent contact tracing and housemates of those infected were not supported and prevented from working. NSW a false sense of security about the infectiousness of the delta variant, a fair dose of hubris about their past success and yes, some delay in going harder).
 
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Gralin said:
Jesus Christ it's scary how many people think police brutality is justified
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Was there brutality? Police spent an hour telling the rioters to leave. They refused. Police then moved up the hill and forced the crowd to disperse. At this stage they used non-lethal weapons to assist.

What else were they meant to do?
 
volcboy said:
Was there brutality? Police spent an hour telling the rioters to leave. They refused. Police then moved up the hill and forced the crowd to disperse. At this stage they used non-lethal weapons to assist.

What else were they meant to do?
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Rioters? Who was rioting? Police making up shit to suit their agenda.

Firing rubber bullets into an unarmed crowd is not excessive force? Piss off.
 
BuddysBiggestFan said:
Rioters? Who was rioting? Police making up sh*t to suit their agenda.

Firing rubber bullets into an unarmed crowd is not excessive force? Piss off.
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The RSL specifically pointed out that the Shrine is not appropriate for protests of any sort.

'Rioters' because what were they actually protesting against? What was their coherent message? Did they actually have one?

You seem unnecessarily aggressive. You weren't at the Shrine today by any chance?
 
volcboy said:
I'd like to think that Matt Canavan was capable of independent thought, but he's entirely bought and paid for by the Murdoch empire. I'd bet that he was fed the line by one of their lackeys.
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I would say it was work shopped by the marketing department
 
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