Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) 2020

[Lions Flag 2020]

Yep, I think that does seem likely - although the good news is that I think it's almost certain they will be epidemics rather than pandemics for the next fifty years or so at least. Would think that all countries will overreact at anything that even has a hint of this about it in future. For example, if this exact same situation played out again, I daresay most countries would suspend international flights in January next time around.

Now that we all know this can happen and have experienced what it looks like and the impact it can have, it will only take a whisper of a new virus for everybody to take extreme measures. There will be hyper-vigilance on this going forward, because it will be so firmly embedded in the psyche of so many.

Agree. Unfortunately politics won over from commonsense early and Morrison didn’t have the courage to close the borders earlier because it would have been unpopular even though he would have had the data at the time to suggest he needed to. This is the key learning for politicians and all of us. Make the right decisions even though they may be hard and unpopular.

In saying this, I think credit where credit is due in that Morrison has reacted well to flatten the curve and more or less put us in lock down. Some major challenges ahead still around manoeuvring out of “lock down” without cases taking off but at least he has put control back in our hands unlike USA, UK and other European countries which don’t have control of it.

 

[Gadzorks]

Yep, I think that does seem likely - although the good news is that I think it's almost certain they will be epidemics rather than pandemics for the next fifty years or so at least. Would think that all countries will overreact at anything that even has a hint of this about it in future. For example, if this exact same situation played out again, I daresay most countries would suspend international flights in January next time around.

Now that we all know this can happen and have experienced what it looks like and the impact it can have, it will only take a whisper of a new virus for everybody to take extreme measures. There will be hyper-vigilance on this going forward, because it will be so firmly embedded in the psyche of so many.

Agree re closing borders sooner but that’s got to impact airline operations big time.

As private companies they would want a pandemic classification prior to stopping flights so they have some financial redress. Will we see a change back to some sort of nationalisation so governments can pull the trigger sooner???

Lots of restructuring going to happen and no idea what we’ll look like in five years from now.

 

[Gadzorks]

Agree. Unfortunately politics won over from commonsense early and Morrison didn’t have the courage to close the borders earlier because it would have been unpopular even though he would have had the data at the time to suggest he needed to. This is the key learning for politicians and all of us. Make the right decisions even though they may be hard and unpopular.

In saying this, I think credit where credit is due in that Morrison has reacted well to flatten the curve and more or less put us in lock down. Some major challenges ahead still around manoeuvring out of “lock down” without cases taking off but at least he has put control back in our hands unlike USA, UK and other European countries which don’t have control of it.

I’ve not been a Morrison fan and thought he was abysmal with the bushfires, but he’s doing well now.

Helps to have a bipartisan team of leaders and experts making group decisions of course, but he is clearly listening and he does seem to be better at delivering messages this time.

 

[Dylan12]

Agree re closing borders sooner but that’s got to impact airline operations big time.

But it was always going to impact airlines anyway, so why delay the inevitable? In really simple terms, other than some employees earning another couple weeks pay it was pretty naive to keep the borders open for that extra fortnight / month. Pure naivety when anyone with a brain could see what was going on. This reeks of the same absurdity as the AFL playing the opening round and forcing a lot of clubs to travel when they shouldn't have been.

Had we shut up shop a month earlier and not had that Ruby Princess disaster (which I see the key heads in NSW have now conveniently laid blame a some lackeys at the Border Force (like anyone is believing that or that those heads played no part in letting them off)), as a country, we'd be in a much better place and probably tracking close to Taiwan / Singapore type levels.

 

[Gadzorks]

But it was always going to impact airlines anyway, so why delay the inevitable? In really simple terms, other than some employees earning another couple weeks pay it was pretty naive to keep the borders open for that extra fortnight / month. Pure naivety when anyone with a brain could see what was going on. This reeks of the same absurdity as the AFL playing the opening round and forcing a lot of clubs to travel when they shouldn't have been.

Had we shut up shop a month earlier and not had that Ruby Princess disaster (which I see the key heads in NSW have now conveniently laid blame a some lackeys at the Border Force (like anyone is believing that or that those heads played no part in letting them off)), as a country, we'd be in a much better place and probably tracking close to Taiwan / Singapore type levels.

I didn’t mean that we should have waited just that we now know we need to shut ASAP without having to waste time negotiating with airlines.

Why would we negotiate? Because having operating airlines is an essential requirement for domestic reasons alone and we can’t bankrupt them every time. Need a coordinated strategy in place.

 

[briztoon]

If we had closed the borders earlier, and had managed to control the spread of the virus, it’s possible we might have been able protect more jobs and industries.

Basically sacrificing international tourism and education, to protect local tourism and hospitality (and football).

 

[Gadzorks]

If we had closed the borders earlier, and had managed to control the spread of the virus, it’s possible we might have been able protect more jobs and industries.

Basically sacrificing international tourism and education, to protect local tourism and hospitality (and football).

I wish we’d closed earlier and stayed virus free too. I’m still hoping we can get there and with only 34 new cases today it feels sooo close.

I’d like to see figures on international tourist dollars spent in Australia v Australians spending tourist dollars in other countries. Anyone know??

Last year there was one international student for every 28 Australians. That’s a massive loss that won’t be clawed back anytime soon. University of Tasmania has cut 75% of their places and says it’s permanent because they have been too reliant on international students.

 

[Saucery]

Interesting counter narrative to the wet market theory.

"Analysis of the first 41 Covid-19 patients in medical journal the Lancet found that 27 of them had direct exposure to the Wuhan market. But the same analysis found that the first known case of the illness did not."

How did coronavirus start and where did it come from? Was it really Wuhan’s animal market?

It’s likely Covid-19 originated in bats, scientists say. But did it then spread to pangolins and humans?

www.theguardian.com

 

[briztoon]

Interesting counter narrative to the wet market theory.

"Analysis of the first 41 Covid-19 patients in medical journal the Lancet found that 27 of them had direct exposure to the Wuhan market. But the same analysis found that the first known case of the illness did not."

How did coronavirus start and where did it come from? Was it really Wuhan’s animal market?

It’s likely Covid-19 originated in bats, scientists say. But did it then spread to pangolins and humans?

www.theguardian.com

Is the journal a reliable and respectable publication?

 

[dlanod]

Is the journal a reliable and respectable publication?

The Lancet?

 

[MSB ROYS]

Is the journal a reliable and respectable publication?

Yes, usually ranked in the top three from general medicine journals, alongside New England Journal of Medicine and Nature Medicine.

 

[luthor]

Nationally, Recoveries are well and truly outstripping Active cases

As at today there is a total of 3702 Recoveries vs 2697 Actives.

Further, ....Recoveries have been higher than New cases every day since April 5th (source:- Worldometer )

The much anticipated tsunami of cases requiring intensive care has just not materialised. Current ICU occupancy is 70 with a capacity of 2229.

And falling

12,018,100 Coronavirus cases in Australia - COVID Live

Live tracking of coronavirus cases, active, tests, deaths, ICU, hospitalisations and vaccinations in Australia

www.covidlive.com.au

What could have been done better by our Governments is a matter of debate but in any case, is now purely hypothetical. We are where we are and we are doing pretty damned well.

I'm not suggesting a wholesale relaxation of restrictions but I do think it's time we as a nation, got an indication of what further needs to be achieved quantitatively before we can expect some relaxation .

It feels like as a nation, we are under collective house arrest. IMO, some instances of "application" of the regulations by the Police lack common sense and border on abuse of power.

I don't think the Australian psyche is going to cop the "Don't you worry about that....just sit down and do as you're told" mantra indefinitely.

 

[Lions Flag 2020]

I wish we’d closed earlier and stayed virus free too. I’m still hoping we can get there and with only 34 new cases today it feels sooo close.

I’d like to see figures on international tourist dollars spent in Australia v Australians spending tourist dollars in other countries. Anyone know??

Last year there was one international student for every 28 Australians. That’s a massive loss that won’t be clawed back anytime soon. University of Tasmania has cut 75% of their places and says it’s permanent because they have been too reliant on international students.

As part of my research into what school we will send our 11 year old to next year I looked up what scores were needed to get into subjects like accounting and computer science at UQ. I was flabbergasted when I read 70-80 percent of students in these courses were International Students! (Which lines up with Gadzorks statements). Aren’t we selling away our future by giving the majority of places to our top Universities to foreign students. Seems short sighted to me.

 

[Section 5]

I have never been to a wet market in China or other parts of Asia.
But have seen some horrible videos of them that may or may not have been from China or Wuhan.
So the article below gives me a better upstanding of how widespread they are and what is usually sold in the wet market.

An extract from article below
Most wet markets, however, are not virus petri-dishes filled with exotic animals ready to be slaughtered.
For a large proportion of people in China and across Asia, they are just places to go to buy fresh food, such as chicken, pork, fish and vegetables, at affordable prices.

Of course it does not mean they can't improve the hygiene in these markets big time.
They obviously provide food to large portions of the population in each country.

So what to make of call's to shut them down coming from Western Governments including ours & western experts along with them criticizing WHO for their stand on keeping these markets open.
Think governments in Asia need to just stop the sale of live animals and including rare animals or those captured from the wild.
Then education of the population especially the older generation on better hygiene practices.

China's wet markets are not what some people think they are

If you have ever been to a shopping area where butchers and grocers sell fresh produce straight from the farm, then you have been to something that would, in some parts of the world, be called a wet market.

edition.cnn.com

 

[briztoon]

As part of my research into what school we will send our 11 year old to next year I looked up what scores were needed to get into subjects like accounting and computer science at UQ. I was flabbergasted when I read 70-80 percent of students in these courses were International Students! (Which lines up with Gadzorks statements). Aren’t we selling away our future by giving the majority of places to our top Universities to foreign students. Seems short sighted to me.

As part of my research into what school we will send our 11 year old to next year I looked up what scores were needed to get into subjects like accounting and computer science at UQ. I was flabbergasted when I read 70-80 percent of students in these courses were International Students! (Which lines up with Gadzorks statements). Aren’t we selling away our future by giving the majority of places to our top Universities to foreign students. Seems short sighted to me.

My wife was one of those overseas students. Masters at ANU, 2nd Masters at UQ (different field). PhD at Griffith.

And now works at Griffith Uni in the school of education.

Our Uni’s aren’t giving places away to overseas students. They expanded their intake to accommodate overseas students who meet the qualifying criteria.

Those overseas students pay full fees, and are a major source of income for our Uni’s.

Griffith is expected to lose $200 million due to the current crisis. The majority from overseas students.

Your child isn’t competing against overseas students for a university placement. Your child is competing against his or her classmates.

 

[briztoon]

I have never been to a wet market in China or other parts of Asia.
But have seen some horrible videos of them that may or may not have been from China or Wuhan.
So the article below gives me a better upstanding of how widespread they are and what is usually sold in the wet market.

An extract from article below
Most wet markets, however, are not virus petri-dishes filled with exotic animals ready to be slaughtered.
For a large proportion of people in China and across Asia, they are just places to go to buy fresh food, such as chicken, pork, fish and vegetables, at affordable prices.

Of course it does not mean they can't improve the hygiene in these markets big time.
They obviously provide food to large portions of the population in each country.

So what to make of call's to shut them down coming from Western Governments including ours & western experts along with them criticizing WHO for their stand on keeping these markets open.
Think governments in Asia need to just stop the sale of live animals and including rare animals or those captured from the wild.
Then education of the population especially the older generation on better hygiene practices.

China's wet markets are not what some people think they are

If you have ever been to a shopping area where butchers and grocers sell fresh produce straight from the farm, then you have been to something that would, in some parts of the world, be called a wet market.

edition.cnn.com

You know you can buy live animals here in Brisbane to slaughter at home and eat right?

I’ve been to a wedding in West End where a calf was slaughtered and cooked as one of the meals.

I used to work at Gambaro’s where we had tanks of live fish, lobster and mud crab that patrons could select to eat.

I’m not sure what’s the difference between Inghams slaughtering and processing our chickens to be sold in the supermarket, and someone buying a live chook and chopping its head off at home is.

Are you going to tell our farmers and graziers they can’t kill their own livestock to eat on their property.

 

[Section 5]

A follow up to my previous post.
This is a video of a young Chinese lady on her local wet market.
She starts off talking about the big difference in hygiene practices in the older generation which is not good.
Talks about the differences in buying at a wet market compared to supermarket in the same area.
Then takes us to her local wet market which is nothing compared to other wet market videos i have seen.
Also points out bad hygiene conditions in a hospital/clinic area
A good look into what is possibly a standard wet market in China. Maybe outlying areas are different.

 

[briztoon]

A follow up to my previous post.
This is a video of a young Chinese lady on her local wet market.
She starts off talking about the big difference in hygiene practices in the older generation which is not good.
Talks about the differences in buying at a wet market compared to supermarket in the same area.
Then takes us to her local wet market which is nothing compared to other wet market videos i have seen.
Also points out bad hygiene conditions in a hospital/clinic area
A good look into what is possibly a standard wet market in China. Maybe outlying areas are different.

A large proportion of Vietnam buy their produce from local markets, which are located in their neighbourhood. They walk a couple of streets to buy their food, then walk home to cook it. Each day.

There are supermarkets. But you have to be wealthy to shop in a supermarket. Even then, the rich still buy from local street markets a lot.

A high proportion of the population of such countries couldn’t afford to buy from western style supermarkets.

 

[Section 5]

You know you can buy live animals here in Brisbane to slaughter at home and eat right?

I’ve been to a wedding in West End where a calf was slaughtered and cooked as one of the meals.

I used to work at Gambaro’s where we had tanks of live fish, lobster and mud crab that patrons could select to eat.

I’m not sure what’s the difference between Inghams slaughtering and processing our chickens to be sold in the supermarket, and someone buying a live chook and chopping its head off at home is.

Are you going to tell our farmers and graziers they can’t kill their own livestock to eat on their property.

Your reply is like you think in am against wet markets in Asia??.
I was clear, it was a better understanding on my behalf on how they operate.

Did you read the article before commenting on : attending wedding at west end where a calf was slaughtered.
An then adding unnecessary comparisons about Ingams and Gambaro's

Not sure what you were trying to point out.
i posted the article to give others a better understanding on "wet markets are not what people think they are"

 

[Section 5]

A large proportion of Vietnam buy their produce from local markets, which are located in their neighbourhood. They walk a couple of streets to buy their food, then walk home to cook it. Each day.

There are supermarkets. But you have to be wealthy to shop in a supermarket. Even then, the rich still buy from local street markets a lot.

A high proportion of the population of such countries couldn’t afford to buy from western style supermarkets.

Yes that's exactly what she points out.
The market she attends in video looks okay to me.
But she points out specifically the hygiene problem of older generation

 

[briztoon]

Your reply is like you think in am against wet markets in Asia??.
I was clear, it was a better understanding on my behalf on how they operate.

Did you read the article before commenting on : attending wedding at west end where a calf was slaughtered.
An then adding unnecessary comparisons about Ingams and Gambaro's

Not sure what you were trying to point out.
i posted the article to give others a better understanding on "wet markets are not what people think they are"

Sorry, it was the last paragraph in the first post that came across as if you were against them.

I was just trying to point out that we have similar here. And yes you can buy “exotic” or wild caught animals here. How many countries eat their national emblems.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Some reading for those interested in COVID-19 vaccine development, which explains each element requited for vaccine development and approval.

AAAS

blogs.sciencemag.org

 

[BangyBangy]

Sorry, it was the last paragraph in the first post that came across as if you were against them.

I was just trying to point out that we have similar here. And yes you can buy “exotic” or wild caught animals here. How many countries eat their national emblems.

Since you asked.

Eight Countries that Eat Their Emblem — The Scoop

Australia isn’t the only country that chooses to savour their national animal! Here are eight countries that eat their own emblem.

blog.scoopon.com.au

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

You know you can buy live animals here in Brisbane to slaughter at home and eat right?

I’ve been to a wedding in West End where a calf was slaughtered and cooked as one of the meals.

I used to work at Gambaro’s where we had tanks of live fish, lobster and mud crab that patrons could select to eat.

I’m not sure what’s the difference between Inghams slaughtering and processing our chickens to be sold in the supermarket, and someone buying a live chook and chopping its head off at home is.

Are you going to tell our farmers and graziers they can’t kill their own livestock to eat on their property.

You know there is a point in time when the world in general will demand these countries that support livestock markets to be accountable for stricter hygiene rules .
If this just goes on with no change then the backlash for the lack of their accountability will hurt them on so many levels. TRADE being one , tourism another.

How many pandemics or epidemics can come out of these places .

If there is no change then this will not fix itself, unless you call a pandemic some sought of remedy for the abuse of nature and common cleanliess .

 

[Dalions]

You know there is a point in time when the world in general will demand these countries that support livestock markets to be accountable for stricter hygiene rules .
If this just goes on with no change then the backlash for the lack of their accountability will hurt them on so many levels. TRADE being one , tourism another.

How many pandemics or epidemics can come out of these places .

If there is no change then this will not fix itself, unless you call a pandemic some sought of remedy for the abuse of nature and common cleanliess .

From what I understand the Chinese Authorities are finally taking steps to make it illegal to eat Bats in China.
So that is a step in the right direction.
But, something that should have been done after the outbreak of SARS back in 02,03.