COVID-19 / Coronavirus

[Kanga Commando]

Same situation in Tassie?
So you blame whichever state Government an outbreak happens in for that outbreak and that's it? That's your level of analysis?

Happened in Tassie, Tassie Government to blame, happened in Vic, Vic Government to blame?

The Tassie outbreak can be traced back to the Ruby Princess but nothing to do with NSW because it didn't happen there?

It must be great to live in a world where only politicians are to blame for individuals actions and there is no such thing as accidents or bad luck, makes it nice and easy, never your fault or nobodies fault, always someone to blame

it must be worse to live in a world where politicians are not held accountable for their lies and poor management.

Just for the record, i have voted conservative governments IN and OUT, for exactly this reason. They dont get a hall pass.

 

[TAITA]

Wondering if he is lowering expectations for the inevitable spike in 2 weeks from the contacts lists of the last few days cases.

You would think with closed borders you should be able to get rid of it but as soon as you open up its back
and you cant keep borders closed forever

This is the real issue/dilemma - we can eradicate through isolation but where to from there, particularly as there is no light at the end of the tunnel regarding defence apart from tracing and testing.

Banging on about people banging on is real low hanging fruit stuff that really is the domain of idiot rags like New Idea.

It's how we fashion and mould our existance into the immediate and short term future we need to be thinking about.

 

[Gralin]

it must be worse to live in a world where politicians are not held accountable for their lies and poor management.

Just for the record, i have voted conservative governments IN and OUT, for exactly this reason. They dont get a hall pass.

I'm not saying that Politicians shouldn't be held accountable.

I'm waiting for the outcome of the inquiry into the events.

You said even one case is too many and the fault lies with the Government if even one case happens. That is ridiculous.

We are talking about an extremely contagious virus that is wreaking havoc around the world and our Governments both State and Federal have done a really good job so far. Mistakes have been made, mistakes will continue to be made, our Governments are made up of people after all and people are fallible.

While we should be striving to minimize risks and mistakes and while the inquiry could find there was some gross negligence in some part of the State Governments response to this it's important to remember that we have no clear cut rules of engagement here.

Different states are trying different things and the end result is not always based on one method being better than another. Luck and individual human actions play large parts.

I don't understand why so many want to just point the finger at one political party, one government or one individual in a Government and say, yep that's the problem if it wasn't for them we'd have no cases.

 

[Kanga Commando]

I'm not saying that Politicians shouldn't be held accountable.

I'm waiting for the outcome of the inquiry into the events.

You said even one case is too many and the fault lies with the Government if even one case happens. That is ridiculous.

We are talking about an extremely contagious virus that is wreaking havoc around the world and our Governments both State and Federal have done a really good job so far. Mistakes have been made, mistakes will continue to be made, our Governments are made up of people after all and people are fallible.

While we should be striving to minimize risks and mistakes and while the inquiry could find there was some gross negligence in some part of the State Governments response to this it's important to remember that we have no clear cut rules of engagement here.

Different states are trying different things and the end result is not always based on one method being better than another. Luck and individual human actions play large parts.

I don't understand why so many want to just point the finger at one political party, one government or one individual in a Government and say, yep that's the problem if it wasn't for them we'd have no cases.

I can take that point.. And in saying that, i am happy to wait also..

However, enough has happened for me to not trust them one bit.

 

[tige19]

How can you stop 2 idiots doing what they did ?

Listen, I think logically, it was an extremely poor decision to contract such high level and public health work out to nightclub bouncer firms, don’t you think? Systemically, it was a mistake, further to that, once notified of concerns prior to said breakout Sutton and co sat on the bums about and only made changes once the cluster was made public. Further to this, the state government sacks one private security firm and hired another one, why didn’t they learn?

I am struggling to get my head around people protecting the decisions made by key personal within the state gov.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Listen, I think logically, it was an extremely poor decision to contract such high level and public health work out to nightclub bouncer firms, don’t you think? Systemically, it was a mistake, further to that, once notified of concerns prior to said breakout Sutton and co sat on the bums about and only made changes once the cluster was made public. Further to this, the state government sacks one private security firm and hired another one, why didn’t they learn?

I am struggling to get my head around people protecting the decisions made by key personal within the state gov.

Regardless of whether you are pro a "Communist' style, state owned, security system, over a privatised one, the bottom line is 2 people stuffed up because they werent following protocol and the flow on effect combined with bad luck is major.
Theres always going to be corners cut in a privatised system when money is the motivation
Other people have stuffed up with out the same consequences this one included bad luck the others didnt

 

[tige19]

Regardless of whether you are pro a "Communist' style, state owned, security system, over a privatised one, the bottom line is 2 people stuffed up because they werent following protocol and the flow on effect combined with bad luck is major.
Theres always going to be corners cut in a privatised system when money is the motivation
Other people have stuffed up with out the same consequences this one included bad luck the others didnt

Sounds like you’re lessening the seriousness of what has occurred.. “just bad luck guys, all good, nothing to see, could happen to anyone”.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Sounds like you’re lessening the seriousness of what has occurred.. “just bad luck guys, all good, nothing to see, could happen to anyone”.

Like I said in a previous post we had a guy travel up from Victoria hanging out in Brizzy with family and friends then went fruit picking in Bundy with heaps of other pickers and no one go it (250 tested in total I think ??? ) ...good luck
It really comes down to luck some times
It could have been disaster of biblical proportions if you add extras to everyone he had contact with

 

[MightyHawks]

Like I said in a previous post we had a guy travel up from Victoria hanging out in Brizzy with family and friends then went fruit picking in Bundy with heaps of other pickers and no one go it (250 tested in total I think ??? ) ...good luck
It really comes down to luck some times
It could have been disaster of biblical proportions if you add extras to everyone he had contact with

There's lots of luck everywhere

Overall Australia and New Zealand have been very lucky (as well as lots of good management)

Hopefully we'll have some good luck getting out of the current outbreak

Note that as bad as the Covid Meats problem was, that has been totally solved

 

[TAITA]

There's lots of luck everywhere

Overall Australia and New Zealand have been very lucky (as well as lots of good management)

Hopefully we'll have some good luck getting out of the current outbreak

Note that as bad as the Covid Meats problem was, that has been totally solved

When you live on an island there has to be total ****wittery to not to be able to defend your borders.

Can you imagine 'scomo' negotiating with a sovereign goverment for the common good?

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Locking down the housing commission flats is abhorrent, can't believe people are defending it. Complete infringement of their human rights. Hopefully some of our human rights lawyers get onto to it ASAP.

 

[Brishawk]

I deal with the facts presented, not the micro analysis that you like to use to try and spin a story Bris. Did you have a look at the actuality of age breakdowns for Covid? Or are you just presuming things? Yes those millennials are represented as the highest % of cohorts contracting the virus, but that doesn’t excuse those in the older age range who make up a huge % of cases, both new and old.

So why don’t we have a 1% CFR? Old and young age getting the virus, statistics say as much.

View attachment 905646

You embarrass yourself again. Understanding the independence/interdependence of data isn't micro analysis and it isn't optional. By ignoring foundational concepts, you just come across as an angry, ignorant person.

The very slight downturn in CFR is because the NEW cases are young and in low risk groups. Let's be real, you don't really care for truth or perspective because that would get in the way of sating your hunger for assigning blame. You only care about strapping together a few correlations so you can shit on someone. Here is a comparison to Sweden. Fancy their government? Do you think their CFR is totally independent of their social restrictions and level of testing? Facts are facts, right, so those numbers must be fine, right? Science is hard or else any could do it. You are just going to have to accept you are not cut out for it or make some effort to understand it. Understanding starts with asking questions, not starting with a conclusion.


Things are not going well in Victoria. Mistakes have been made. But a shit load of that curve belongs to individuals ignoring state and federal advice. You will see more mistakes made, and more spikes in confirmed cases. Short of locking people in their homes (which the Victorian state government is now doing), the government is reliant on people following the rules. But at things could be worse and you need to appreciate that.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Nothing is changing... Totally different hotel

 

[TAITA]

Oh FFS - what colour is the sky in your world pal?

 

[Pessimistic]

Locking down the housing commission flats is abhorrent, can't believe people are defending it. Complete infringement of their human rights. Hopefully some of our human rights lawyers get onto to it ASAP.

‘they’re not getting the support they need. Food etc. if China did this, we’d be tut tutting

 

[Brishawk]

‘they’re not getting the support they need. Food etc. if China did this, we’d be tut tutting

IF that is true, that is inexcusable. Hard to imagine non-housing commission residents treated the same way.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

You embarrass yourself again. Understanding the independence/interdependence of data isn't micro analysis and it isn't optional. By ignoring foundational concepts, you just come across as an angry, ignorant person.

The very slight downturn in CFR is because the NEW cases are young and in low risk groups. Let's be real, you don't really care for truth or perspective because that would get in the way of sating your hunger for assigning blame. You only care about strapping together a few correlations so you can sh*t on someone. Here is a comparison to Sweden. Fancy their government? Do you think their CFR is totally independent of their social restrictions and level of testing? Facts are facts, right, so those numbers must be fine, right? Science is hard or else any could do it. You are just going to have to accept you are not cut out for it or make some effort to understand it. Understanding starts with asking questions, not starting with a conclusion.

View attachment 906645
Things are not going well in Victoria. Mistakes have been made. But a sh*t load of that curve belongs to individuals ignoring state and federal advice. You will see more mistakes made, and more spikes in confirmed cases. Short of locking people in their homes (which the Victorian state government is now doing), the government is reliant on people following the rules. But at things could be worse and you need to appreciate that.
View attachment 906649

The thing about Sweden is they aren't testing much, with the lack of complete lockdown I believe the morality rate would be a lot lower than that graph suggests. No way of knowing for sure, but I'm tipping a lot more people have had the virus than that suggests.

 

[Gralin]

The thing about Sweden is they aren't testing much, with the lack of complete lockdown I believe the morality rate would be a lot lower than that graph suggests. No way of knowing for sure, but I'm tipping a lot more people have had the virus than that suggests.

On a per capita rate they are between France and Germany.

 

[Brishawk]

The thing about Sweden is they aren't testing much, with the lack of complete lockdown I believe the morality rate would be a lot lower than that graph suggests. No way of knowing for sure, but I'm tipping a lot more people have had the virus than that suggests.

Exactly my point. If you don’t control for confounding variables you make spurious claims. Of course they also have over 5,000 deaths and appear on my frontier of failure on a previous chart I posted.

 

[Pessimistic]

Some interesting things if you search

some reports peopl can keep getting re ocuurance of symptoms (we know this Similar to herpes/cold sores) But is it always infectious. Some people have herpes but intimate partners don’t get it

while China might have been the first public outbreak with fatal consequences, reports now from testing older sewage samples that it may havebeen dormant globally, and the right conditions cause an epidemic outbreak.

it sort of made sense because the thought that other places got it after China through travel alone from that source just doesn’t seem logical really. It’s too much too soon And too widespread.

 

[tige19]

Wowee, did anyone just watch Pauline Hanson’s racist rant on today show? I haven’t seen something like that from her to that extent in years, it will make noise 100%.
This on the public housing lockdown!

“ these people are used to tough conditions from war torn countries, don’t overstate what they’re going through”

“They don’t even speak English, they are alcoholics and getting all the drugs and Methadone that they need”

There was more, but Jesus, not even an inch of sympathy for them.

 

[tige19]

And Daniel Andrews keeps kicking goals... Hiring Virgin staff to man hotel quarantine! This guy is not well, unfit for office.

It’s also been reported that the Unions put him under pressure not to use the ADF, there will be plenty more to come out of this. Corruption to the core.

 

[Pessimistic]

And Daniel Andrews keeps kicking goals... Hiring Virgin staff to man hotel quarantine! This guy is not well, unfit for office.

It’s also been reported that the Unions put him under pressure not to use the ADF, there will be plenty more to come out of this. Corruption to the core.

cant buy that when casualised labour firms were used. Casulisation of workforce is a huge factor in this pandemic. What’s strange is in our so called socialist Victoria is we seem to have more of it than elsewhere

 

[tige19]

cant buy that when casualised labour firms were used. Casulisation of workforce is a huge factor in this pandemic. What’s strange is in our so called socialist Victoria is we seem to have more of it than elsewhere

Apparently the ADF were offered again and he rejected... for... yep, Airport staff. You can not make this up, literally this guy wants the state to go into free fall.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

The road out people, what does that look like?
Stats of past data collecting are mostly revisionist, they are not predictive tools to the extent that some would like them to be.
Finger pointing to the fault is all good for venting and holding some to account for mistakes.
What does the road out look like?.
Personally said 100 days ago that it's full Australian border lock down if you are looking to eradicate the virus from our shores. Didn't happen, we just treated the virus like a course of antibiotics that we took for three days and stopped before taking our full course / dose and it kicks back again.
We were told that lockdowns and restrictions were to save the hospital system from being overwhelmed, when are they ever going to be ready?
Sounds like a grizzle but I'm not seeing or hearing from anyone in any government what it is that they are aiming for as a resolution.
I just get the feeling the longer this goes the more we will look back in five, ten or whatever time, in a world where covid is still with us but we don't look at it as anything more than a very serious version of the flu that kill people in high numbers as the flu today does.
People will not stand for periodic lockdowns of suburbs forever and a day. Yep work yourself into the ground to get ahead only to be sat on your backside whilst being fit and healthy for the good of all mantra just won't cut it.
So how do the major contributors on here see this playing out, understand there is and will not be a post covid world just as there is no post influenza world.