Cricket Discussion - Part 2

[philreich]

Maybe it was just that one particular test at the WACA, but I recall Curtley Ambrose being deadly in Australia. As mentioned though, he did have a few more mates than Bumrah does.

This is where India is missing Shami. No disrespect to Siraj, but if Shami had been Bumrah's opening partner in this series, it would have been even more challenging for our batsmen.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Matthew Renshaw is averaging 27.90 in the Sheffield Shields atm. There is no way he should get picked unless he can put more runs on the board. In 14 Tests Renshaw has made 645 runs at 29.31 and 184 of those came in one innings against Pakistan back in 2017. In 10 of his last 12 Test innings Renshaw has failed to make it to double figures Renshaw has had plenty of chances but not made the most of them. That doesn't mean he should not be recalled in the future but he would need to put some runs on the board first.

Perhaps the form opener in the Sheffield Shield atm is Henry Hunt from South Australia. Hunt is the leading run scorer in the comp with 537 runs at 44.75 and on form he might have had been tried before his team mate McSweeney who does not normally open the innings.

For me the man under the most pressure atm should be Usman Khwaja who at 38 years of age has just 63 runs at 12.60. On those figures Usman is in the side on reputation and hope. If he fails again in Melbourne his days must be numbered.

My big issue with Renshaw though is that he was one that steps up in tests. His first 6 innings he had a 34no, then a 50 and a 150. Some players just perform better with maximum pressure and even now, 6 years on I dont understand why he was dropped and wasnt persisted with through his "slump" (which was minor for a new opener).

Obviously its crying over spilt milk at this point but he is one of those who got away for mine.

Im not including his 2023 matches here because I think at that point the moment had passed and I think the rest of your post is pretty accurate at describing his current situation.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

If you were a conspiracy theorist you would think the Australian selectors decided to throw McSweeney to the wolves in the three Tests with the toughest batting conditions before bringing in Konstas in more friendly batting conditions. But that's just crazy talk. The Australian selectors would never protect a young NSW bat at the expense of a South Australian (admittedly transplanted Queenslander).

Of course as the old saying goes, Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you

 

[philreich]

There's no easy solution, but getting the matter resolved before the First Test next summer would be preferable.

 

[TazD]

If you were a conspiracy theorist you would think the Australian selectors decided to throw McSweeney to the wolves in the three Tests with the toughest batting conditions before bringing in Konstas in more friendly batting conditions. But that's just crazy talk. The Australian selectors would never protect a young NSW bat at the expense of a South Australian (admittedly transplanted Queenslander).

Of course as the old saying goes, Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you

I don't think they're that smart.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Maybe it was just that one particular test at the WACA, but I recall Curtley Ambrose being deadly in Australia. As mentioned though, he did have a few more mates than Bumrah does.

Bumrah is the best bowler to visit Oz since Ambrose's last test series here in 1996-97. His stats for all types of bowlers who have taken 25 or more wickets in Oz ie 1 dominate series or 2 solid ones, is only behind bowlers of the 1890s for averages and is 2nd or 3rd best for strike rate.

Ambrose had 3 dominate series in Oz. Bumrah was steady in his first series 6 years ago, dominate until he broke down 4 years ago, and arguably the second most dominate fast bowler over 3 tests, second only to Hadlee's 33 wickets in 1985-86 against a very poor Oz side hit by a rebel south african tour. This Oz side is a lot better than the 1985-86 side.

On this tour he is a lot like Richard Hadlee was on most tours of Oz. Best he can hope for is steady support from the other end not a dominant partner. Siraj has done a reasonable job, but can get flustered and leak a lot of runs, but there isnt much other support.

Its why Head and Carey have been so important. They havent face Bumrah much, so they can make quick runs agaimst the rest of the bowlers.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

No-one in the Australian top six, aside from Travis Head, has scored more than 17 twice.
Khawaja is averaging 12.6 for the series with a top score of 21, Marnus Labuschagne has an average of 16.4 despite a top score of 64, Steve Smith scored an impressive century at the Gabba but otherwise has scores of 0, 17, 4 and 2.

Nathan McSweeney's Test selection was odd, but his axing is baffling

A month after achieving his dream on the back of six years of first-class cricket, it took just six Test innings to see Nathan McSweeney dropped for the rest of the India series at least.

www.abc.net.au

The selectors could even have dropped Marsh for Konstas.

If we're still counting a clearly not fit Marsh as an all-rounder, then it's worth noting McSweeney took 2-20 in nine overs of off-spin against India A and has career-best Shield figures of 4-89.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

If you were a conspiracy theorist you would think the Australian selectors decided to throw McSweeney to the wolves in the three Tests with the toughest batting conditions before bringing in Konstas in more friendly batting conditions. But that's just crazy talk. The Australian selectors would never protect a young NSW bat at the expense of a South Australian (admittedly transplanted Queenslander).

Of course as the old saying goes, Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you

I think the selectors did protect Konstas, by not picking him in the first test. If he had been 21 and not 19 I reckon he plays in Perth.

Not buying the conspiracy theory that they had this all planned, but I do think his age and whilst Perth Stadium isnt as fast and bouncy as the WACA, its quicker than the wickets he has played on, was a factor in his non selection for the first test.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Matthew Renshaw is averaging 27.90 in the Sheffield Shields atm. There is no way he should get picked unless he can put more runs on the board. In 14 Tests Renshaw has made 645 runs at 29.31 and 184 of those came in one innings against Pakistan back in 2017. In 10 of his last 12 Test innings Renshaw has failed to make it to double figures Renshaw has had plenty of chances but not made the most of them. That doesn't mean he should not be recalled in the future but he would need to put some runs on the board first.

Perhaps the form opener in the Sheffield Shield atm is Henry Hunt from South Australia. Hunt is the leading run scorer in the comp with 537 runs at 44.75 and on form he might have had been tried before his team mate McSweeney who does not normally open the innings.

For me the man under the most pressure atm should be Usman Khwaja who at 38 years of age has just 63 runs at 12.60. On those figures Usman is in the side on reputation and hope. If he fails again in Melbourne his days must be numbered.

I am HUGE Hunt fan, but to Partner Kahwaja Renshaw’s game would best compliment him. I think picking the right mix is equally as important as picking best ‘form’. Obviously you want the best form
Players in the 12, but cricket is a game of Partnerships.

Langers game was Complimentary to Haydons, Ponting was great all round the ground but Drive and Pull were exquisite, Martyn on the Cut again complimentary to the Ponting Pull. Steve Waugh tough and determined with an easy going striker at 6. Then we were fortunate enough to have a World Class Batter who happened to double up as the Keeper.

 

[raptalia]

My big issue with Renshaw though is that he was one that steps up in tests. His first 6 innings he had a 34no, then a 50 and a 150. Some players just perform better with maximum pressure and even now, 6 years on I dont understand why he was dropped and wasnt persisted with through his "slump" (which was minor for a new opener).

Obviously its crying over spilt milk at this point but he is one of those who got away for mine.

Im not including his 2023 matches here because I think at that point the moment had passed and I think the rest of your post is pretty accurate at describing his current situation.

But he hasn't always stepped up in Tests. Renshaw has an average less than 30 over 14 Tests and has had only four scores over 50. In his last seven Test matches Renshaw has only made it to double figures twice. I am not sure how you can define that as a 'minor slump'.

As you post Renshaw's Test career started out pretty well then he had a horrible slump across four Test series so Khawaja was promoted up the order and eventully partnered Warner. These two performed well so there was no room for Renshaw. Of late Renshaw has not been able to buy a run in the Shield so there is no mystery as to why he has been overlooked. He may well do a Matthew Hayden and have a second coming in Test cricket but to do that he needs to make runs at Shield level.

The bloke I have some time for is Kurtis Patterson, he is not an opener but currently averages 105.40 in Shield games. He has batted six times in the current Shield season and only been dismissed once under 50. In his brief Test career Patterson averages 144.00 in just two Tests. If Labuschagne continues with his run of outs, or the selectors finally tire of Mitch Marsh, Patterson may be the next cab on the rank. Given that the skipper only saw fit to give Marsh two overs in the Indian second innings despite being a bowler down Patterson might even replace Marsh. Josh Inglis is another candidate for a batting slot, he currently averages 72.60. Carey is doing OK as the keeper/batsman but Inglis is good enough to force a spot as a batsman alone.

The bottom line is that Khawaja and Smith are near the end of their careers, Labuschagne is out of form and Mitch Marsh is not up to Test status as an all rounder so opportunities abound in the Australian order. If only the selectors have the courage to make the changes in the coming months.

 

[raptalia]

I am HUGE Hunt fan, but to Partner Kahwaja Renshaw’s game would best compliment him. I think picking the right mix is equally as important as picking best ‘form’. Obviously you want the best form
Players in the 12, but cricket is a game of Partnerships.

Langers game was Complimentary to Haydons, Ponting was great all round the ground but Drive and Pull were exquisite, Martyn on the Cut again complimentary to the Ponting Pull. Steve Waugh tough and determined with an easy going striker at 6. Then we were fortunate enough to have a World Class Batter who happened to double up as the Keeper.

So, Langer succeeded therefore Renshaw will also succeed? That is a bit like saying Robbie Gray was a champion wearing no 9 so give Jed McEntee the no 9 and he will be another Robbie Gray. Nice to have the right mix but it doesn't always work like that. In any case at 38 Khawaja will be gone soon so picking a long term partner for Usman is a bit pointless.

I am not against Renshaw having another crack but he has to earn it.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The Indian team has thoroughly pissed off the Australian media, refusing to conduct English-speaking interviews for the past 2 days.

Really reinforcing the impression of being the most arrogant, sensitive touring team to Australia ever.

 

[Grave Danger]

The Indian team has thoroughly pissed off the Australian media, refusing to conduct English-speaking interviews for the past 2 days.

Really reinforcing the impression of being the most arrogant, sensitive touring team to Australia ever.

Give 'em the Frank Sinatra treatment.

 

[Papa G]

Richard Hadlee in 1985 had the most dominant fast bowler touring series I can remember. 33 wickets in 3 tests, 2 x man of the match and player of the series.

He created quite a stir by keeping the player of the series prize and not sharing with his teammates. I think that kicked off the 'Hadlee's a w***er' chant

That Australian team was probably the worst Australian team I've ever seen. Ray Bright, Simon Davis, Dave Gilbert, Greg Ritchie, Greg Mathews, Tim Zoehrer. Say no more.

 

[WillemDaDrew]

Strikers recruit Jamie Overton is Charlie Dixon with pads..

 

[Papa G]

Strikers recruit Jamie Overton is Charlie Dixon with pads..

???

Overton is good.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

That Australian team was probably the worst Australian team I've ever seen. Ray Bright, Simon Davis, Dave Gilbert, Greg Ritchie, Greg Mathews, Tim Zoehrer. Say no more.

Yeah that team, after those 16 players left for the rebel tour of South Africa a few weeks earlier, was as bad as the teams during world series cricket days especially that first series against India in 77-78.

 

[Papa G]

Yeah that team, after those 16 players left for the rebel tour of South Africa a few weeks earlier, was as bad as the teams during world series cricket days especially that first series against India in 77-78.

Conversely it was probably NZ best team. Hadlee, Cairns, the Crowe brothers, Wright, Smith was handy. Perfect storm for them.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The Indian team has thoroughly pissed off the Australian media, refusing to conduct English-speaking interviews for the past 2 days.

Really reinforcing the impression of being the most arrogant, sensitive touring team to Australia ever.

I reckon a few footy coaches over the years would have liked to have used this type of excuse to avoid the media.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

But he hasn't always stepped up in Tests. Renshaw has an average less than 30 over 14 Tests and has had only four scores over 50. In his last seven Test matches Renshaw has only made it to double figures twice. I am not sure how you can define that as a 'minor slump'.

As you post Renshaw's Test career started out pretty well then he had a horrible slump across four Test series so Khawaja was promoted up the order and eventully partnered Warner. These two performed well so there was no room for Renshaw. Of late Renshaw has not been able to buy a run in the Shield so there is no mystery as to why he has been overlooked. He may well do a Matthew Hayden and have a second coming in Test cricket but to do that he needs to make runs at Shield level.

The bloke I have some time for is Kurtis Patterson, he is not an opener but currently averages 105.40 in Shield games. He has batted six times in the current Shield season and only been dismissed once under 50. In his brief Test career Patterson averages 144.00 in just two Tests. If Labuschagne continues with his run of outs, or the selectors finally tire of Mitch Marsh, Patterson may be the next cab on the rank. Given that the skipper only saw fit to give Marsh two overs in the Indian second innings despite being a bowler down Patterson might even replace Marsh. Josh Inglis is another candidate for a batting slot, he currently averages 72.60. Carey is doing OK as the keeper/batsman but Inglis is good enough to force a spot as a batsman alone.

The bottom line is that Khawaja and Smith are near the end of their careers, Labuschagne is out of form and Mitch Marsh is not up to Test status as an all rounder so opportunities abound in the Australian order. If only the selectors have the courage to make the changes in the coming months.

Yep to be clear on Renshaw I'm specifically talking only about 2017-18. As mentioned I think what you say has a lot of validity regarding the situation now.

But for a bloke in his very early 20s, as an opener, making 184 in his 6th ever innings, and averaging 48 from his first 7 tests, should in my opinion have been more than enough to persist with him through that 4 test slump (which still did include a 45 and a 22 amongst all the burned ones). I'd be willing to bet we've backed in Warner through worse patches and other guys who didn't have the potential Renshaw did at that moment. Its all spilled milk and I get that but I was against dropping him then and stand by it.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I reckon a few footy coaches over the years would have liked to have used this type of excuse to avoid the media.

I wonder if Ken will ever conduct an English-speaking interview.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

My big issue with Renshaw though is that he was one that steps up in tests. His first 6 innings he had a 34no, then a 50 and a 150. Some players just perform better with maximum pressure and even now, 6 years on I dont understand why he was dropped and wasnt persisted with through his "slump" (which was minor for a new opener).

He was dropped because there was a bunch of selectors/coaches pushing for their favourites. Justin Langer (batting coach at the time, and pre-annointed next senior coach) was white anting him for Bancroft. Mark Waugh a selector at the time, was whiteanting him for Nic Maddinson thinking he should be at the top of the order.

He got ill in India which gave the selectors the excuse to drop him.

David Warner also didn't like playing with him.

When he came back to Australia the next season, he looked like he'd forgotten which side of the bat to hold.

 

[raptalia]

I wonder how much longer Nathan McSweeney will stay in South Australia? Judging by the the noises he is making up in Queensland he sounds homesick.

Another thing I detest about T20 is the mercenary nature of it all. One minute they are playing for you the next minute they are against ya. I guess I am old fashioned as I was bought up on the parochialism of State based cricket. I cannot get my head around cricket franchises.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I wonder how much longer Nathan McSweeney will stay in South Australia? Judging by the the noises he is making up in Queensland he sounds homesick.

Another thing I detest about T20 is the mercenary nature of it all. One minute they are playing for you the next minute they are against ya. I guess I am old fashioned as I was bought up on the parochialism of State based cricket. I cannot get my head around cricket franchises.

My view on T20 is its purely a revenue raiser.

Gets money from non serious cricket fans, and gives more players the income to stay in cricket and thus become good test options. Test cricket can be difficult to keep financially viable without it.

 

[philreich]

My view on T20 is its purely a revenue raiser.

Gets money from non serious cricket fans, and gives more players the income to stay in cricket and thus become good test options. Test cricket can be difficult to keep financially viable without it.

At least the Big Bash is now 44 games, instead of 61 like it was a couple of years ago. But yeah - it gets tiresome pretty quickly.