Cripps or Oliver.

[danster168]

Cripps accolades speak for themselves, but you completely dismiss them.

Anyone who has watched footy for more than 5 minutes can see that the way Cripps is moving now is completely different to the past couple of years - because he is fit.

Alas, you're clinging onto the argument that the 'game went past him' - even the media have given up on that one. Crazy how the game can go past a player but he can catch back up to it despite not changing their game.

I said that I recognise that he is looking good. It's no different to Coniglio who is also in the exact same boat. but the previous 2 years has to count for something. You can't just go, oh 'Cripps and Coniglio' are the best players in the AFL now that they are moving freely. Not after we've watched 2 years of trash from them. out of interest, give me your top 5 players in the game.

 

[chunkylover53]

I said that I recognise that he is looking good. It's no different to Coniglio who is also in the exact same boat. but the previous 2 years has to count for something. You can't just go, oh 'Cripps and Coniglio' are the best players in the AFL now that they are moving freely. Not after we've watched 2 years of trash from them. out of interest, give me your top 5 players in the game.

Lol random name to lump him with. Coniglio has been good compared to his previous few years but he's only polled coaches votes in 1 game and his stats are nothing special. Nobody is suggesting Coniglio is the best player in the AFL now.

I don't really have a top 5, players impact their teams and games differently.

 

[Tulip]

Cripps storming ahead in the coaches votes amongst many other player of the year tables.

I can see Petracca catching him but Oliver probably not. Oliver is probably a better comparison with Matt Kennedy tbh.

I reckon that’s a bit condescending to be honest.

I appreciate that past form has to count for something, but even than I can’t see a mid in the Dees team who is as dangerous as Kennedy.

 

[chunkylover53]

I reckon that’s a bit condescending to be honest.

I appreciate that past form has to count for something, but even than I can’t see a mid in the Dees team who is as dangerous as Kennedy.

Yeah you are right. Perhaps an Oliver v Dow discussion needs to be had?

 

[danster168]

Lol random name to lump him with. Coniglio has been good compared to his previous few years but he's only polled coaches votes in 1 game and his stats are nothing special. Nobody is suggesting Coniglio is the best player in the AFL now.

I don't really have a top 5, players impact their teams and games differently.

Why can't you name a top 5...?

I'll go: Oliver, Bont, Petracca, Walsh, Wines.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Yeah, after he was best on in an elimination final against the cats.

Back to Cripps, 2 years is a massive sample size. Saying he was injured for 2 years is a massive cop out. And definitely convenient. The game changed and Cripps' ability to spread from the stoppage was exposed. Also, his ability to shake a tag was also exposed. He would basically get tagged completely out of the game, have 3 touches to half time and then play forward. That's the challenge for Cripps this year.

Firstly this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Cripps used to get tagged just about every single game for 2 years in 2018-19. He had no issues with shaking them then aside from the odd game here and there and was still voted MVP and performed to an absolutely elite standard. To even try to state that Cripps has long had issues with a tag is just blatantly disingenuous.

Oliver's been injured for years too, his shoulders are completely stuffed, but you don't hear me going into that. We're not doctors so we can only go on exposed form.

You don't need to be a doctor to know that having crook shoulders isn't even in the same ball park as a fractured back. You can still run, you can still kick, you can still engage your core with bung shoulders. Chris Judd is evidence of that. Having a broken back is completely crippling and its astonishing the bloke was even able to get on the field (not that I think he should have... imo he should have sat out for as long as it took to heal rather than play like a B grade plodder for the year) I've had back issues myself in the past and they are completely debilitating. Far far worse than any shoulder injury in terms of your overall ability to do anything.

Oliver has been the best player in the game (at worst top 3)

So was Cripps in 2018-19

Cripps has been 40-50 in the last 2 years.

Nobody is disagreeing with that

I recognise he was better beforehand and I recognise his 3 games so far this year have been great. But it's 3 games. To catch up with Oliver he needs to produce this level of footy for 2 years because the 3 games that Cripps has played is the level that Oliver plays at week in week out, year in year out.

He doesn't need to catch anything. He already did it pre injuries. You don't see anyone talking about how Fyfe had a form slump after he came back from a broken leg... People knew what Cripps was as a player and thats why it was puzzling and sad to see him hobbling around like a shell of his former self. Hes had a good first 3 rounds and most footy fans are simply happy to see him back in form. Maybe he goes down half way through the year, maybe he soldiers on... Nobody would be questioning whether or not he was a gun or not at his peak.

Notice how everyone is talking about Cripps yet Oliver has still got more disposals, inside 50's, score launches, clearances etc. Yeah, Cripps hit the scoreboard more, that's about it.

Cherry picking stats while Cripps leads score involvements, goals... yet all I remember is hearing that Oliver is this damaging mid compared to Cripps who was just a tall slow lumbering inside mid who can mark a ball but does no damage with ball in hand...

All in all, Cripps is playing amazing at the moment. Do it for 2 seasons straight like Oliver has done, then revisit. Til then Cripps is closer to Harmes/Viney than Oliver. Maybe even put Angus Brayshaw in the mix.

All in all maybe you should just admit you were being an absolute flog for the last 2 years and while Clarry has had a great run with injury, form and success you've been trying to re-write history to discount what Cripps had been doing for years and hopefully is now back to doing if he can stay healthy to somehow further boost the achievements of Clarry as if winning a poll makes any difference?? To even put Harmes' name in a comparison with Cripps is just

 

[Ash24]

I find it so funny how you Melbourne supporters in this thread have no concept of correlation or trends.

Pre-season against Melbourne and Cripps was BOG... "but it's only pre-season". Rd 1 against Richmond and Cripps was BOG... "it's only one game". Rd 2 against the Dogs and Cripps was BOG yet again... "calm down we're only two games in". Rd 3 against Hawthorn and Cripps will once against poll Brownlow votes (BOG after Doc/Jiath)... "3 good games in the last two years".

You lot going to be saying the same thing after every good game he plays?

Players don't magically fall off the face of the earth mid season after being best-on for pretty much every game. I would bet my house on him winning AT LEAST one of the Brownlow, AFLPA and/or AFLCA MVP awards.

 

[danster168]

I find it so funny how you Melbourne supporters in this thread have no concept of correlation or trends.

Pre-season against Melbourne and Cripps was BOG... "but it's only pre-season". Rd 1 against Richmond and Cripps was BOG... "it's only one game". Rd 2 against the Dogs and Cripps was BOG yet again... "calm down we're only two games in". Rd 3 against Hawthorn and Cripps will once against poll Brownlow votes (BOG after Doc/Jiath)... "3 good games in the last two years".

You lot going to be saying the same thing after every good game he plays?

Players don't magically fall off the face of the earth mid season after being best-on for pretty much every game. I would bet my house on him winning AT LEAST one of the Brownlow, AFLPA and/or AFLCA MVP awards.

pre-season? errr, yeah ok. lol. It's 3 games? like I said, come back in 2 years of good footy. He owes it to you after 2 years of being an average AFL footballer.

'pretty much every game'? Which is 3 games. LOL. like when Aaron Hall was winning the Brownlow after 3 rounds?

Nah I'm happy for Carlton that they're winning some footy, it's good for the comp. I recognise that Cripps is playing good footy. But playing good footy for 3 weeks doesn't make up for 2 years of trash. How short are Carlton fans memories? Oliver already has more accolades than Cripps and is 3 years younger.

Meanwhile Oliver is leading the comp for disposals and had 15 inside 50's on the weekend the second most in the history of AFL. 'But but, Cripps has been good for 3 weeks now'.

I can't wait until Cripps plays a few more good games and Carlton fans think that somehow that changes my argument. To catch up to Oliver he needs to win the AFL coaches award and get 31 Brownlow votes and then I'll consider it. And Oliver is still 3 years younger.LOL

 

[danster168]

Cripps easily. He can play forward.

So can Harmes. Harmes can tag too.

 

[danster168]

Except he's about 1/4 as good of a footballer as Cripps.

Cripps is a better midfielder than Oliver with the added bonus of being a great forward.

So Cripps averages 0.5 goals over his career. Oliver 0.3 despite playing no time forward. Can you explain this? The most goals he's kicked in a year is 13. 13!!!! lol. So he's an average forward and a worse midfielder. Just for reference Petracca kicked 29 from the midfield last season so 13 at Cripps' peak is laughably low.

Please address this in your next reply.

 

[danster168]

I beg to differ. Mr Cripps accomplished that feat, no longer than 2 weeks ago.

lol. Carlton fans placing all their arguments on a few votes in the coaches award. An award that Oliver just won! lol.

Been there, done that fellas.

All the neutral fans all thought Petracca was going to win our BnF too. Yeah, no. Best player in the AFL. He overtook Bont last year.

Patrick 'Harmes' Cripps may win it one day though.

 

[danster168]

The fact that you think goals are the only thing that matter for a forward shows you don't know much about football.

Yeah mate, call me crazy but there's not too many 'good' forwards that kick 13 in a season. Also, 13 was his career high in a season.And I sure as hell know it wasn't his defensive pressure. So go on, tell me how he is a good forward lol.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I think the fact most neutrals prefer Paddy over Ollie speaks volumes.

Case closed.

 

[danster168]

Cripps is 195cm and elite overhead and 1v1. He can play forward, Oliver cannot.

I know it physically pains you to see a neutral preferring an opposition player to one of your players, but that's just the way it is sometimes.

I'd take Bontempelli over Oliver in a heartbeat too.

Dude, if he was elite overhead and great 1 on 1 why such a low goal total?

Nah, I don't care if someone rates their players over melbourne players but it's got to be based on something. Not just 3 weeks. I equally have issues with people putting Petracca before Oliver. it was laughable to me that the media said coaches should tag Petracca. Oliver did what I knew he would do, punish the opposition.

It's got to be on a mountain of work. And Cripps hasn't achieved what Oliver has achieved yet in all coveted awards. All whilst being 3 years older so I'm not sure what it's based on? if it's based on Rounds 1-3 then ok, that's up to you.

 

[danster168]

I think the fact most neutrals prefer Paddy over Ollie speaks volumes.

Case closed.

lol no they don't. I think its like 90% neutrals would go Oliver. The poll was done before Oliver became the AFL's best player.

 

[danster168]

Let's go back to Harmes who is closer to Cripps than Cripps is to Oliver. Harmes can play forward, back and tag. He is more versatile than Cripps.

Harmes has also kicked more goals in his career than Cripps.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

lol no they don't. I think its like 90% neutrals would go Oliver. The poll was done before Oliver became the AFL's best player.

Petracca actually is the AFL's best player right now (and yes, currently better than Cripps)

Weird angle you are going for here friend.

 

[danster168]

cripps was far better in 18-19, obviously right now oliver is better by 4 laps of the earth, still hold hope under a new coach cripps can regain his 18-19 form.

4 laps of the earth from a Carlton supporter. It's amazing what 3 weeks can do

 

[Lethality]

Cripps because he's taken his game to the next level and can play a key forward position albeit temporarily.

He's what they now call a 'striker'. Big bodied goalkicking midfielders who are the new rockstars of the game. Dusty, Petracca, Cripps, they're the most valuable types of players these days.

 

[danster168]

Petracca actually is the AFL's best player right now (and yes, currently better than Cripps)

Weird angle you are going for here friend.

Thoughts on Oliver beating Petracca in the demons club best and fairest which is voted by our coaches. I'd like your thoughts on why you think the inner sanctum of the melbourne footy club would rate Oliver higher than Petracca, who you rate as the best player in the AFL? So basically I think the same as them and you call that weird? lol. Please address this in your next reply and don't leave out details

 

[danster168]

Cripps because he's taken his game to the next level and can play a key forward position albeit temporarily.

He's what they now call a 'striker'. Big bodied goalkicking midfielders who are the new rockstars of the game. Dusty, Petracca, Cripps, they're the most valuable types of players these days.

The problem is Cripps in his career hasn't kicked goals. The most he's ever kicked in a season is 13 mate. Maybe do your research before saying such a thing.

 

[Lethality]

The problem is Cripps in his career hasn't kicked goals. The most he's ever kicked in a season is 13 mate. Maybe do your research before saying such a thing.

That's because he used to be a pure centre bounce player.
He's changed his position now though, and he's kicked 2 goals a game so far. He's certainly capable, nice kick for goal.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The problem is Cripps in his career hasn't kicked goals. The most he's ever kicked in a season is 13 mate. Maybe do your research before saying such a thing.

think its pretty safe to say he'll kick more than 13 this year given hes already on 6 and we're 3 rounds in...

 

[danster168]

think its pretty safe to say he'll kick more than 13 this year given hes already on 6 and we're 3 rounds in...

Which proves my point. You saying he's a forward is based on a mountain of evidence, 3 weeks. I've already proven that him being a goal kicker is a fallacy.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Which proves my point. You saying he's a forward is based on a mountain of evidence, 3 weeks. I've already proven that him being a goal kicker is a fallacy.

No... people have said he has the capacity to play forward... you really do live in a world of black and white