Crouch

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A-Graders win premierships. If we have the chance to snare a high probability A-Grader in Crouch, we should throw the grandstand at it.

No point keeping a top 20 draft pick in a weak draft in the hope you get a good draftee. I say use the Ward compo pick and our first rounder if needs be (and hope you can get away with just offering Ward and a first round downgrade.)
 
I'm starting to warm to the idea of Crouch

He would compliment an emerging Liberatore, Dahlhouse, Tutt and Wallis

And Boyd, Cross and Cooney are probably coming up to the back ends of their careers.
 

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Unotuchable said:
Apparently GWS is refusing to play ball with O'Meara. You guys reckon this could drive more clubs to take a shot at Crouch?
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I was under the impression GWS have to trade away the mini draft picks?

So whether they want to or not they have to trade away the 4 picks?

Below are the rules for the picks mind you, not the player. But who wouldn't use their first pick on O'Maera?

7. Incentive to other clubs trading with GWS Giants in the 2011 and 2012 post-season:
GWS Giants to be given access to four 17-year-olds born in the January to April 1994 window, with all players to be traded to other clubs. Selections will be allocated to GWS Giants so the club can trade for established players, but the club will not have access to these 17-year-olds. If the four trades are not completed in the 2011 post-season, the balance of up to four trades may be used in the 2012 trading period.
 
Royale said:
I was under the impression GWS have to trade away the mini draft picks?

So whether they want to or not they have to trade away the 4 picks?

7. Incentive to other clubs trading with GWS Giants in the 2011 and 2012 post-season:
GWS Giants to be given access to four 17-year-olds born in the January to April 1994 window, with all players to be traded to other clubs. Selections will be allocated to GWS Giants so the club can trade for established players, but the club will not have access to these 17-year-olds. If the four trades are not completed in the 2011 post-season, the balance of up to four trades may be used in the 2012 trading period.
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Apparently they want to set up a chain of deals so that they get the O'Meara pick back. I personally think that it's complete shit that they can do something like this.
 
Royale said:
I was under the impression GWS have to trade away the mini draft picks?

So whether they want to or not they have to trade away the 4 picks?

7. Incentive to other clubs trading with GWS Giants in the 2011 and 2012 post-season:
GWS Giants to be given access to four 17-year-olds born in the January to April 1994 window, with all players to be traded to other clubs. Selections will be allocated to GWS Giants so the club can trade for established players, but the club will not have access to these 17-year-olds. If the four trades are not completed in the 2011 post-season, the balance of up to four trades may be used in the 2012 trading period.
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You'd think so..

However, the language is ambiguous in the clause, meaning while they have to trade the rights to the 4 17 year olds over 2 years, there is nothing preventing them from actively seeking a 3rd party who will trade those rights straight back.

But yes, it is against the spirit of the rule, which is in place so GWS pick up experienced players to mentor the horde of talented kids they have/will have. However apparently the AFL has said they will be able to do this if they involve the third party - anything to give them a leg up.

What is funny, is that nothing is stopping the trading parties from not giving the rights to the mini draft players back to GWS. They could just walk away with the rights, if the AFL don't hold them for draft tampering:eek:

In any case, the whole situation is a joke, and what it means is that all clubs in the race for one of those 17 year olds, will then target Crouch.. And Melbourne can do better deals than the dogs :mad:
 
Rookie said:
Seems GWS is trying to snare O'Meara for themselves. Some opportunistic club might trade for the number one mini draft pick and then trade it back. I hope we do this deal. Also a rumour one club has offered not to take O'Meara with mini draft pick one. Hopefully that's us. We could trade for mini draft picks one and two, trade pick two back to GWS, and (not sure if this is draft tampering - not much they can do if we claim to rate Crouch higher) take Crouch with the first pick, leaving O'Meara for GWS.

We can only dream!

(just realized I didn't copy the link for my source - no special knowledge, this based off articles in the Brisbane Times and (I think) The Age.
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Not sure if we're allowed to trade for 2 players from the minidraft...
 
Exactive said:
Not sure if we're allowed to trade for 2 players from the minidraft...
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yep, we are, but it doesn't look like we're part of it. apparently that deal is being done with adelaide, hawthorn and freo. hawks are getting gunston, freo are probs getting something which will let them get mitch clark, and i would think that adelaide are getting one of the 17 year olds. But they might be interested in ben kennedy, a south australian small forward, with that pick. (they enquired about him earlier in the year and who could blame them for wanting to avoid players from interstate at the moment.) so maybe we can still get a chance at crouch.
 
fwiw GWS have 4 picks in the mini draft, that they can trade over the next 2 years, all this year, all next year 1 and 3 what ever. the mail is they will trade 2 this year and keep 2 to trade next year.

clubs are making bid/offers for the picks not the players, for example GC could offer up pick 4 swallow and Day for pick 1 in the mini draft and not even pick O'meara.

its just seen that O'Meara is the best 17 yo and that a club would be most teams number 1

that said if club and club B got picks 1 and 2 there is nothing to say they wont pass O'Meara or Crouch.

GWS are not trading O'Meara, they are trading for a chance to pick him up.
 
murphy2bedabest said:
fwiw GWS have 4 picks in the mini draft, that they can trade over the next 2 years, all this year, all next year 1 and 3 what ever. the mail is they will trade 2 this year and keep 2 to trade next year.

clubs are making bid/offers for the picks not the players, for example GC could offer up pick 4 swallow and Day for pick 1 in the mini draft and not even pick O'meara.

its just seen that O'Meara is the best 17 yo and that a club would be most teams number 1

that said if club and club B got picks 1 and 2 there is nothing to say they wont pass O'Meara or Crouch.

GWS are not trading O'Meara, they are trading for a chance to pick him up.
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Yes but its effectively O'Meara they are trading away. Any team would take him with their first pick.

The AFL have put the kybosh on any complex deal that would see O'Meara go to GWS. So now we see which teams GWS want to deal with for those mini draft picks.
 
doggies ftw said:
So we are back in the race for Crouch? Yay! :p
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In any case, with that mini draft pick #2, I think the Crows would take Ben Kennedy over Crouch. SA boy, and no doubt they are getting pissed with good players leaving them.
 

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Igloo said:
In any case, with that mini draft pick #2, I think the Crows would take Ben Kennedy over Crouch. SA boy, and no doubt they are getting pissed with good players leaving them.
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But they would know 90% of clubs would take Crouch, so wouldnt they just go for pick 3?

Maybe we could take a risk and go for 3 and hope they get Kennedy?

It would be a lot cheaper, but this is if they even trade 3 this year I guess!
 
doggies ftw said:
But they would know 90% of clubs would take Crouch, so wouldnt they just go for pick 3?

Maybe we could take a risk and go for 3 and hope they get Kennedy?

It would be a lot cheaper, but this is if they even trade 3 this year I guess!
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True. Who knows what they want to do.

We could go for 3 anyway, but who knows what that would cost. Trade week is so annoying :p.
 
Realisticly, GC has us trumped for JOM, by virtue of pick 4, and Melbourne has us trumped for Crouch by virtue of their pick 12 this year and probability favouring thier compo pick being more valuable than ours by a couple of picks.

So how much would you be willing to cough up for Crouch?

i.e. Compo pick + pick 17 for pick 2 in mini-draft and GWS pick 31

It seems like a lot, but lets say we finish 8th next year, which I think is around the mark. Our compo pick will be roughly 14 (2 priority picks, + 2 mid-round compo picks + 9 other teams before the 8th team gets a pick)

Is (pick 17 in a thin draft + pick 14 in a deep draft) worth a probable elite midfielder? <not really taking pick 31 into account, which will be a random draft outcome>

2005 was a thin draft (67 players taken, quality tapers before 2nd round)
Here are the players that went around pick 14 (either side)
---
12 Nathan Jones
13 Shannon Hurn
14 Grant Birchall
15 Travis Varcoe
16 Richard Douglas

2008 was a bumper draft (79 players taken, quality out to 3rd round). Here are the players that went around pick 14 (either side)
----
12 Lewis Johnston
13 Tom Lynch
14 Ayce Cordy <F/S so hard to say where he really would have gone>
15 Mitchell Brown
16 Ryan Schoenmakers

Which is better, one probable elite midfielder or two probable foot soldiers?
 
Is our compensation pick tied to our position on the ladder for next year, if we trade it to GWS for a mini draft pick? Or does it go by their position on the ladder?
 
Igloo said:
Is our compensation pick tied to our position on the ladder for next year, if we trade it to GWS for a mini draft pick? Or does it go by their position on the ladder?
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Ours without a doubt.

My view is that the only way you can get a high probability of an elite player is to finish bottom 4 in a non-sucky draft year, which is painful and doesnt happen very often.

So this mini draft thing, in combination with Ward being stolen from us, is a one-time opportunity to get a probable elite midfielder without having to be really shitful and lucky.

I say we throw the kitchen sink at it, and whatever other trades we do this week should concentrate on upgrading picks we have left over rather than trading for leftovers from other clubs.

its more about the opportunity than the value.
 
players the calibre of Cooney / Griffen (match winners) dont come to our club too often. If Crouch is in this calibre then yes we need to go hard and get him
 
I agree mostly. It's a good opportunity to lock in top talent. What is important is that we have at least one reasonable pick this year. Ideally that would be 17 or 25 but a pick in the 30s might be ok. If the Hill trade that has been reported elsewhere is accurate then we could consider bundling that with our compo pick and pick 17 and getting 25 back.

We still need to be at least somewhat careful though. Right now Crouch is seen as a likely top five pick. If we don't have a great season next year the compo pick might be worth something in the range of 6-10. Crouch could be a Jackson Trengrove/Dustin Martin but he could just as easily be a Brock McLean or Chris Masten.

I would be extremely hesitant to trade both 17 and the compo pick with no pick coming back unless Dalrymple determines that all of the real talent will be gone by 25 anyway.
 
Not much info on him here, so below is a short Bio on Crouch. No mention on his leg speed, which we will need in the next few years with Walllis/Libba in the guts;


Brad Crouch is one of the twenty five GWS mini draft nominees and in many peoples minds is the second best 17 year old footballer going around.

Crouch is rated highly as he is already considered a complete midfielder, he can play inside the packs and win the football for his team mates or he can play just outside and link up to great effect.

Crouch’s disposal is very good but beyond that it is very consistent, like the rest of his game you know exactly what to expect of Crouch.

Crouch is likely to be selected second in the GWS mini-draft, if he isn’t he’ll be a top five pick when he nominates for the regular draft.

HE'S not eligible until next year's AFL draft, but North Ballarat coach David Loader says Brad Crouch is already the ''complete package.''
Crouch powered the Rebels to a 67-point win against the Northern Knights on Saturday, capping a 31-possession performance with a classy goal.

And the 184cm midfielder could be added to an AFL list for next season, under rules that allow Greater Western Sydney to list and trade the best four 17-year-olds born before April 30, 1994.

But Crouch, who is built identical to Brock McLean, would still be ineligible to debut until 2013.

''Hes really well-grounded, which is holding him in great stead. He trains like he thinks hes the second or third best in the group, not the first,'' Loader said.

Crouch has impressed for Vic Contry this year, as has Rebels captain Nick OBrien, who slotted 5.2 and ran the Knights defenders off their feet with his repeated leading.
 

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