Dale Thomas..

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Rubbish use of stats. Who actually uses contested possession stats as a basis of an argument about hardness while being serious? Ryan Griffen has more contested possessions than Joel Selwood, I suppose he's harder than Joel, yes?

Hardness can't be measured statistically. Dale Thomas is clearly harder at contests than Murphy, anyone who watches games would agree.

..Murphy has been playing starting mid/onballer since his very first game, and has been getting crunched/smashed in packs since day one.. ..you won't agree, obviously.. ..but just like you 'think' that Murph is soft [or at least, softer than daisy],, keep in mind plenty of ppl did indeed call daisy soft for years.. ..if you had watched every carlton game since he was drafted you wouldn't think this way, just like others wouldn't think the same of daisy if they had watched every pies game.. ..accept the fact that yer not as knowledgeable on blues players as blues supporters are, and others will accept they dont know as much about pies players as you do..

 

[TownleyTime]

It's quite pointless comparing stats. Murphy is a pure midfielder who can only play 1 position b/c of his limited size/frame.

As Mick pointed out yesterday, Daisy is a utility & he played 5 to 6 different roles/positions yesterday. If he was glued into the midfield like Murphy, obviously his numbers would be different.

 

[mdc]

you guys remember Woewodin right..?.. ..brilliant elite footy for 2000, snared a charlie over the much hyped MVP Kouta that season

Oh please. Not only was Kouta robbed that year, so were a dozen+ other players. It's considered the most farcical Brownlow result in recent memory for very good reason.

You're welcome to your personal definition of "elite", but no matter how you define the word, it has never applied to Woewodin.

 

[E Shed]

I think Thomas is currently the best player in the comp. He's in that zone where everything he does comes off, from the screamers to the left foot bananas to the torps.
Amazing player in incredible form playing for the best team, doesn't get much better than that.

 

[smiddaz123]

..Murphy has been playing starting mid/onballer since his very first game, and has been getting crunched/smashed in packs since day one.. ..you won't agree, obviously.. ..but just like you 'think' that Murph is soft [or at least, softer than daisy],, keep in mind plenty of ppl did indeed call daisy soft for years.. ..if you had watched every carlton game since he was drafted you wouldn't think this way, just like others wouldn't think the same of daisy if they had watched every pies game.. ..accept the fact that yer not as knowledgeable on blues players as blues supporters are, and others will accept they dont know as much about pies players as you do..

Didn't call Murphy soft buddy, spare me the rant.

 

[Mr Smiff]

Thomas has come of age and is really "producing". However, his light frame is going to see him get hurt.
I hope he doesn't get hurt as he will be hard to replace.
That was a GREAT mark over Niknat!


PS.....future captain, also.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Oh please. Not only was Kouta robbed that year, so were a dozen+ other players. It's considered the most farcical Brownlow result in recent memory for very good reason.

You're welcome to your personal definition of "elite", but no matter how you define the word, it has never applied to Woewodin.

..Woey was very, very good that year all year long.. ..he's looked upon now as a joke winner cos it was pretty much his only stellar year.. ..i used him as an example of a player that managed to play enough elite level footy to win a brownlow [in a team that made a GF no less].. ..i also said that he's not considered an elite player.. ..you do realise that simply playing a bit of elite level footy is not enough to be considered elite right..?.. ..just like Daisy playing elite footy now, is not enough to be considered elite.. ..but if he continues to do so [as it appears he should] then yes, in time,, he will be considered elite..

..otherwise, if you consider a season or two of top class footy enables you to be considered an elite player.. ..then we'd be over-run with elite players.. ..elite players are champions of the game.. ..do you consider the very, very best equates to the definition of elite..?.. ..wouldn't this then make them champions of the game..?.. ..

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Didn't call Murphy soft buddy, spare me the rant.

..no worries, re-read yer post and i did misread.. ..however, i don't think that Daisy hits contests any harder [or softer].. ..i don't neccessarily picture either player when i consider a 'hard' footy player.. ..[simply playing afl requires hardness, so thinking above and beyond].. ..i dont think either of them are soft either..

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

It's quite pointless comparing stats. Murphy is a pure midfielder who can only play 1 position b/c of his limited size/frame.

As Mick pointed out yesterday, Daisy is a utility & he played 5 to 6 different roles/positions yesterday. If he was glued into the midfield like Murphy, obviously his numbers would be different.

..Murphy, like plenty of other good mids, can play other positions.. ..so many mids do now rotate thru the wings and flanks on-field [moreso this year].. ..in '09 he kicked 30+ goals for the year as an attacking mid that often rested fwd.. ..he can certainly play wing/HFF/FP, as well as mid/onball.. ..

..not sure i'd consider Daisy a utility, primarily cos for me a utility is more the kinda player than goes between key fwd and key def and ruck.. ..Daisy can be used in many positions as a 'role-player' though, much like Gibbs has and does.. ..not sure i'd consider Gibbs to be a utility, in much the same way i wouldn't consider Daisy to be..

 

[danielnajdek]

i get dizzy when theres a carlton v collingwood whos players better. the convo just goes around circles. they are both playing great footy this year. leave it at that and just be happy we both have gun players. and also what a great draft year for us daisy and pendles wow dont get much better then that.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Thomas has come of age and is really "producing". However, his light frame is going to see him get hurt.
I hope he doesn't get hurt as he will be hard to replace.
That was a GREAT mark over Niknat!


PS.....future captain, also.

..from an outsiders look, i'd have figured Pendles as the heir apparent..

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Murphy is a gun, Thomas is a gun.

Pretty simple, really.

 

[sr36]

Thomas has come of age and is really "producing". However, his light frame is going to see him get hurt.
I hope he doesn't get hurt as he will be hard to replace.
That was a GREAT mark over Niknat!


PS.....future captain, also.

I reckon that Daisy is one of those wiry guys who get very few injuries. Pendles is the one who concerns me injury wise.

 

[doppleganger]

As I said, Murphy averages more contested ball and tackles. So what you're saying is basically a myth. Similar to those who still call Thomas soft. That wasn't very convincing, mdc. Stop trying to overrate Thomas.

What the feck is with the use of contested possession as some indicator of hardness??

Do you even know what a contested possession is defined as??

Do you realise that a free kick is counted as a contested possession....this year M.Murphy has been awarded 22 free kicks (1 less than J.Selwood)......to Daisy's 11. All of the free kicks count toward a player's 'contested possession' count.

Do you also realise that a loose ball get.....ie running onto the ball out on the wing is called a contested possession, something M.Murphy does very well again.

They are both stars.

 

[Barnzy]

Hardness can't be measured statistically. Dale Thomas is clearly harder at contests than Murphy, anyone who watches games would agree.

Love it. The old cliche "anyone who watches games would agree with me" line. Well I watched games and I disagree. Thomas goes in hard but it's not like Murphy doesn't either. The contested ball stats was just to prove that. If he didn't, he wouldn't have those contested ball and clearance numbers would he? However, even if I concede Thomas is slightly ahead in that area Murphy is better in other areas and is a better player.

 

[roosaints]

Thomas is the new Akermanis. Great to watch.

 

[donnie5]

Love it. The old cliche "anyone who watches games would agree with me" line. Well I watched games and I disagree. Thomas goes in hard but it's not like Murphy doesn't either. The contested ball stats was just to prove that. If he didn't, he wouldn't have those contested ball and clearance numbers would he? However, even if we Thomas is slightly ahead in that area Murphy is better in other areas and is a better player.

Both are stars, however Murphy is not better than Thomas and hasn't been since 2009. If you watch games like you claim you do then you'd know this.

 

[doppleganger]

Love it. The old cliche "anyone who watches games would agree with me" line. Well I watched games and I disagree. Thomas goes in hard but it's not like Murphy doesn't either. The contested ball stats was just to prove that. If he didn't, he wouldn't have those contested ball and clearance numbers would he? However, even if I concede Thomas is slightly ahead in that area Murphy is better in other areas and is a better player.

Waiting outside the pack and swooping on a loose-ball is considered a contested possession....got nothing to do with hardness

 

[Barnzy]

however Murphy is not better than Thomas and hasn't been since 2009. If you watch games like you claim you do then you'd know this.

If you watched games you would know that Murphy is a better player than Thomas.

See, I can do it too.

Waiting outside the pack and swooping on a loose-ball is considered a contested possession....got nothing to do with hardness

What about clearance stats? They don't prove you go in hard and get your own ball? Murphy's clearance numbers are top 10 in the AFL. Other names there are Watson, Cotchin, Judd, Boyd, Thompson, etc.

 

[marcmurphy#3]

Both Murphy and Thomas are having fantastic years so far, just further proving what a fantastic draft it has been. I think that Murphy has had a more consistent year so far, but Daisy's last month has been fantastic.

 

[mdc]

..Woey was very, very good that year all year long.. ..he's looked upon now as a joke winner cos it was pretty much his only stellar year.. ..i used him as an example of a player that managed to play enough elite level footy to win a brownlow [in a team that made a GF no less].. ..i also said that he's not considered an elite player.. ..you do realise that simply playing a bit of elite level footy is not enough to be considered elite right..?.. ..just like Daisy playing elite footy now, is not enough to be considered elite.. ..but if he continues to do so [as it appears he should] then yes, in time,, he will be considered elite..

..otherwise, if you consider a season or two of top class footy enables you to be considered an elite player.. ..then we'd be over-run with elite players.. ..elite players are champions of the game.. ..do you consider the very, very best equates to the definition of elite..?.. ..wouldn't this then make them champions of the game..?.. ..

I understand what you said. What I'm saying, is that Woewodin's level of footy in that year was nowhere near that of Thomas' current level. At no stage of the season was Woewodin, on form, one of the 10 best players in the league in 2000. Thomas, on current form, is comfortably in the best 10 of 2011.

Elite, not elite, I don't mind. But comparing him to a one-hit wonder like Woewodin - whose 1 hit wasn't even that good - is insulting.

 

[blues4flag]

Murphy is a gun, Thomas is a gun.

Pretty simple, really.

Exactly. Both are in line for their first AA selection and both arguably been their side's best players this season.

Not sure why some supporters insist on putting down others when talking up their own. Collingwood wouldn't trade Thomas for Murphy and Carlton wouldn't do the opposite.

 

[you pick one]

I baged Thomas for still being soft before the Cats game, I was wrong!

 

[crownie]

agree with Ross Lyon he is currently the best player in the comp, put money on him for Charlie before his odds plumet.

 

[KrakFiend]

FFS, if that is not 'elite', what is?

If being one of the best players in one of the best teams in the best league doesn't make someone 'elite', then the word is obsolete.