Vic Daniel Andrews and the Statue of Limitations

[The Punter]

I'd imagine a party divided is still a better enemy than a party united.

But I'm not inclined to think they are playing 4D chess, there just doesn't seem to be great political capital to be gained from almost winning.

Labor are the only party other than the Liberals that could possibly win Warrandtye. Surely a Liberal win further unites the party room behind Pesutto or keeps things the same.

As I said, my analysis is there is nothing much to lose for Labor from running in Warrandyte, and possibly plenty to gain. Doesn't matter now, the chances of Pesutto lasting as leader have increased with Labor not running.

 

[Golden_6]

Labor are the only party other than the Liberals that could possibly win Warrandtye. Surely a Liberal win further unites the party room behind Pesutto or keeps things the same.

As I said, my analysis is there is nothing much to lose for Labor from running in Warrandyte, and possibly plenty to gain. Doesn't matter now, the chances of Pesutto lasting as leader have increased with Labor not running.

Nicole Werner will be another number behind the Christian right of the Vic Libs and another vote against Pesutto within the internal politics of the party. This certainly won’t unite them further.

 

[The Punter]

Nicole Werner will be another number behind the Christian right of the Vic Libs and another vote against Pesutto within the internal politics of the party. This certainly won’t unite them further.

The trouble makers in the party have already chased away Hermanns (her background is similar to Werner), and I've seen none of those troublemakers in Warrandyte but Pesutto has been out there next to Werner a lot.

The people to be worried about were at the Credlin/Deeming/Henderson/McArthur "Liberal Values in the West" function on the weekend. Hendo is the only one who has been out to Warrandyte, and she's in the other parliament.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Absolutely. Explain how Australia’s unaffordable house pricing can be laid at the feet of landlords, and not other factors like sustained low interest rates over more than a decade until 2023, tax policies, immigration impact on population, supply and demand etc. This will be good.

And for once, this isn't necessarily a Labor v LNP argument, although you'll try and make it so.

While you’re at, explain why the Andrews government is selling public housing and not replacing it? Public housing is down almost 13% over the past decade.

Um, landlords set the rent prices for a start. CPI is running at around 7%. My landlord just increased my rent 20% (on top of a greater than CPI hike last year) so don't effing tell me that landlords don't contribute to the unaffordability. Investors hoover up all the stock and create a situation where they set the market. They take advantage of absolutely ridiculous negative gearing rules to double dip as well. Landlords aren't martyrs, they don't aim to break even. They set their rents to maximise the opportunity... so how about you effing explain how they are not culpable? Are you telling me that it is coincidence that housing stock is tight at exactly the same time as landlords are engaging in widespread price-gouging? They're parasites.

And if you want to have a serious discussion on it perhaps don't start with the bolded bit.

It's not a Labor vs LNP thing...then, tell me about Andrews.

How disingenuous.

 

[Sttew]

Um, landlords set the prices for a start. CPI is running at around 7%. My landlord just increased my rent 20% (on top of a greater than CPI hike last year) so don't effing tell me that landlords don't contribute to the unaffordability. Investors hoover up all the stock and create a situation where they set the market. They take advantage of absolutely ridiculous negative gearing rules to double dip as well. Landlords aren't martyrs, they don't aim to break even. They set their rents to maximise the opportunity... so how about you effing explain how they are not culpable? Are you telling me that it is coincidence that housing stock is tight at exactly the same time as landlords are engaging in widespread price-gouging? They're parasites.

And if you want to have a serious discussion on it perhaps don't start with the bolded bit.

It's not a Labor vs LNP thing...then, tell me about Andrews.

How disingenuous.

Now you're saying landlords contribute. Before you were saying landlords are the reason. Back pedalling?

Yes, the Andrews government is contributing by not keeping up with public housing demand, but my point about Labor v LNP was to do with your argument landlords are solely to blame.

 

[The Punter]

Public housing has been a real problem in Victoria for over a generation. This is in part because they way governments measure success doesn't work for public housing. There is nearly no easily measurable economic benefit for building public housing, which is one of the most expensive things government can do. So we get all these little programs which are about minimising the cost or getting others to help.

None of this means the government shouldn't be building more public housing - it's desperately needed. It's just stuck in the worst, most unchangeable kind of governmental and political muck. As a result, the most disadvantaged people in our community are continuing to suffer.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Now you're saying landlords contribute. Before you were saying landlords are the reason. Back pedalling?

Yes, the Andrews government is contributing by not keeping up with public housing demand, but my point about Labor v LNP was to do with your argument landlords are solely to blame.

Forget it mate, if you want to set the groundrules for a discussion and then change those rules then have at it. I'll have no part of it.

Oh, and just so you are aware, landlords contribute more to house prices rising than you seem to understand. Investors (ergo landlords) hoover up every bit of stock they can because they have these nice shiny negative gearing laws that they can take advantage of that those buying houses to live in do not get. Get your head out of your arse and take yourself to some local auctions. I have lost count of the number of young (and almost certainly) first home buyers who have been laid to waste at auction by those topping up their investment portfolios. Investors also parlay this into a tight rental market where they can literally price gouge with impunity. And that reduces the savings of those trying to get into the market. And around and around we go.

So, no I am not back-peddling at all. Property investors are the absolute scourge of the market. Reduce the number of property investors and you'll soften prices.

And on that, I'm out.

 

[Gough]

I'm impressed by the Damscene conversion of all of these Libs suddenly demanding more social housing.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I'm impressed by the Damscene conversion of all of these Libs suddenly demanding more social housing.

As long as it is NIMBY though.

 

[Gough]

As long as it is NIMBY though.

It's like nuclear power, only an issue for the Libs in opposition.

 

[The Punter]

As long as it is NIMBY though.

As far as public housing goes, this is a recent development. Bolte and Hamer built it everywhere in Melbourne. There is a YIMBY movement gaining steam in the party on housing more generally, it needs to widen to include public and social housing.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

As far as public housing goes, this is a recent development. Bolte and Hamer built it everywhere in Melbourne. There is a YIMBY movement gaining steam in the party on housing more generally, it needs to widen to include public and social housing.

Whilst I agree with you I am not expecting to see much public housing offered up in places like Middle Park or Toorak.

 

[faible]

I'm impressed by the Damscene conversion of all of these Libs suddenly demanding more social housing.

They were very concerned with mental health during COVID. Strangely silent on it now.

 

[Roby]

They were very concerned with mental health during COVID. Strangely silent on it now.

Oh it's sooo much better now that lockdowns are gone!

 

[jannissary]

Um, landlords set the rent prices for a start. CPI is running at around 7%. My landlord just increased my rent 20% (on top of a greater than CPI hike last year) so don't effing tell me that landlords don't contribute to the unaffordability. Investors hoover up all the stock and create a situation where they set the market. They take advantage of absolutely ridiculous negative gearing rules to double dip as well. Landlords aren't martyrs, they don't aim to break even. They set their rents to maximise the opportunity... so how about you effing explain how they are not culpable? Are you telling me that it is coincidence that housing stock is tight at exactly the same time as landlords are engaging in widespread price-gouging? They're parasites.

And if you want to have a serious discussion on it perhaps don't start with the bolded bit.

It's not a Labor vs LNP thing...then, tell me about Andrews.

How disingenuous.

my landlord raised mine by 35% last year because all of his other properties were around that price p/w.

never fixed any of the problems with the property either, must be hard having 50~ houses that’re all shit.

my commute is about 40 minutes longer than it was before but i’d rather live with my older brother for free than pay some parasite **** off amounts of money to sit on his ass all day

 

[Sphynx]

Public housing has been a real problem in Victoria for over a generation. This is in part because they way governments measure success doesn't work for public housing. There is nearly no easily measurable economic benefit for building public housing, which is one of the most expensive things government can do. So we get all these little programs which are about minimising the cost or getting others to help.

None of this means the government shouldn't be building more public housing - it's desperately needed. It's just stuck in the worst, most unchangeable kind of governmental and political muck. As a result, the most disadvantaged people in our community are continuing to suffer.

5 of the largest current major residential projects in Melbourne are public housing projects.

 

[The Punter]

5 of the largest current major residential projects in Melbourne are public housing projects.

5 of the how many largest current major projects? Can we get some context here on this?

 

[Sphynx]

5 of the how many largest current major projects? Can we get some context here on this?

The largest infrastructure spend in the states history?

The residential market is in the toilet, yet the government has plowed a massive amount into this current public housing expansion.

I'm no Dan fan at all, I'm the opposite, but you are a completely ill-informed if you think public housing is being ignored at the moment, I can tell, as all you are doing is quoting homelessness statistics.

Go out and look at what is currently in construction in Flemington, Brighton etc. The 4-5 tower cranes on each site might lead the way for you..

They are huge public housing projects.

They broke ground on most of these projects 2.5 years ago.

This is Flemington, this precinct will be complete by early next year, but I guess you knew about that already?

 

[The Punter]

The largest infrastructure spend in the states history?

The residential market is in the toilet, yet the government has plowed a massive amount into this current public housing expansion.

I'm no Dan fan at all, I'm the opposite, but you are a completely ill-informed if you think public housing is being ignored at the moment, I can tell, as all you are doing is quoting homelessness statistics.

Go out and look at the what is currently in construction in Flemington, Brighton etc. The 4-5 tower cranes on each site might lead the way for you..

Firstly, I was asking for some context. The 50th biggest current residential projects? The 1000th? Five out of how many?

Secondly, if homelessness is still rising, then the government isn't doing enough, regardless of the fairness of that statement. Public housing serves little other purpose than to transform people from homeless people to people with a home.

But don't let me stop you jumping to conclusions. I was asking a question so I could acquire more information. I understand how, at times, that may feel foreign in these parts.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

my landlord raised mine by 35% last year because all of his other properties were around that price p/w.

never fixed any of the problems with the property either, must be hard having 50~ houses that’re all s**t.

my commute is about 40 minutes longer than it was before but i’d rather live with my older brother for free than pay some parasite * off amounts of money to sit on his ass all day

So many of these pricks are glorified slumlords. I am having the same issue with my landlord who attends to nothing yet shamelessly gouges the price at every opportunity. We really only need the rental for another 12 months (we are trying to build but that has been delayed and is smashing us on extra costs) but out of principle we'll move out. We tried to negotiate a 10% increase in return for signing another 12 month lease but the oxygen stealing grub won't budge.

But nah, landlords aren't an issue. FMD.

 

[Sphynx]

Firstly, I was asking for some context. The 50th biggest current residential projects? The 1000th? Five out of how many?

Secondly, if homelessness is still rising, then the government isn't doing enough, regardless of the fairness of that statement. Public housing serves little other purpose than to transform people from homeless people to people with a home.

But don't let me stop you jumping to conclusions. I was asking a question so I could acquire more information. I understand how, at times, that may feel foreign in these parts.

Bullshit.

We have come off a 1 in 100 year financial catastrophe, business' are falling over all over the place, you have accountancy divisions which specialise in insolvency and bankruptcy at historical levels of workload.

Oh, we also have had a massive string of interest rate rises, the largest inflation figures in decades and a cost of living crisis.


There's hundreds of reasons at the moment why homelessness might be rising other than simply a lack of public housing.

If anything, the Government preempted this rise in unemployment and financial stress by plowing the amount of money they have into it straight out of Covid.

 

[The Punter]

Bullshit.

We have come off a 1 in 100 year financial catastrophe, business' are falling over all over the place, you have accountancy divisions which specialise in insolvency and bankruptcy at historical levels of workload.

Oh, we also have had a massive string of interest rate rises, the largest inflation figures in decades and a cost of living crisis.


There's hundreds of reasons at the moment why homelessness might be rising other than a lack of public housing.

Yes, but if you were fifteen jackets and you go out in the rain and still get wet, it is still true that you didn't do enough to keep dry. Despite taking reasonable steps.

Those people being added to the list of homeless people need somewhere to live, not a press release about the many factors that contributed to their predicament. I never laid blame for the causes anywhere in any of my posts. There are less reasonable people on here who may be more to your taste.

For the last time, 5 out of how many? I'd just like to know.

 

[Sphynx]

Yes, but if you were fifteen jackets and you go out in the rain and still get wet, it is still true that you didn't do enough to keep dry. Despite taking reasonable steps.

Those people being added to the list of homeless people need somewhere to live, not a press release about the many factors that contributed to their predicament. I never laid blame for the causes anywhere in any of my posts. There are less reasonable people on here who may be more to your taste.

For the last time, 5 out of how many? I'd just like to know.

They would be close to the 5 largest residential based projects in Melbourne, private or public at the moment.

There simply isn't many being built at all at the moment.

They don't compete with the works on the West Gate Tunnel, Under Ground Rail Loop etc, but they were more expensive than a number of the LXR Stations being built.

 

[kalex6251]

long time out of the sector, but govts of all persuasions were moving away from the public housing model that dominated even as late as the 1990s - govt funding favoured smaller, flexible service providers built on social/community housing principles who could borrow off their own asset base

that may have changed recently

 

[faible]

long time out of the sector, but govts of all persuasions were moving away from the public housing model that dominated even as late as the 1990s - govt funding favoured smaller, flexible service providers built on social/community housing principles who could borrow off their own asset base

that may have changed recently

Outsourcing vital Government functions does sound very on-brand.