Player Watch Daniel Curtin - Debut

[Crow till I die]

Yep .. I was reading that now with the 3 year contracts you can't extend until round 6 of their first season (or read the article wrong)

I knew that the AFL was bringing in this change, but doesn't seem like a major hurdle

Look, I know we are all excited about what Curtin can bring and yes there will be a lot of expectation on his shoulders in a way, but I'd be amazed if he didn't settle well and hit the ground running next year and with his size, poise, turn of pace and footy smarts, he is a point of difference to what we have. If it looks like this, then as soon as the timeframe allows, I would not be waiting if I was the club and I would not be skimping on the dollars either.

 

[PeterSalt]

If the lad comes in and makes a really good impression next year, I'd be hoping we dangle a very big long contract in front of him ala Rachelle & Soligo...and bump the figure up a bit if needed. Better to splash the cash on retaining a guy that might be an absolute young A grader thats already here than try to lure one out from another club.

Personally I'm with the longer contracts for some these young fellas

They're in the head space of staying for the longer term early on

 

[adelaidecrows]

Talk of WCE swapping pick 1 for 2 or 3 and 7 or 8 (if the club wanting pick 1 could have secured the second of those picks) may mean in holistic terms - applying it to a set of players assuming they live up to the hype, WCE giving up McLeod (Reid) for Goodwin (McKercher) & Bock (Curtin) for example

Would we rather McLeod or Goody and Bock to be building a team around?

I can see your point. All I am stating is how badly did West Coast want Curtin. They are genuinely frustrated with not getting him and I am merely stating they had the tools to genuinely target him but they chose to stick with Reid. Thats a good choice on merit. No one is arguing, but thats like the Crows stating we are upset we didnt get Reid and Curtin. If only we were willing to give up more. So you have to question, how badly did WCE want Curtin and if they did, then they should be ridiculed for poor strategy.

 

[Crow till I die]

I can see your point. All I am stating is how badly did West Coast want Curtin. They are genuinely frustrated with not getting him and I am merely stating they had the tools to genuinely target him but they chose to stick with Reid. Thats a good choice on merit. No one is arguing, but thats like the Crows stating we are upset we didnt get Reid and Curtin. If only we were willing to give up more. So you have to question, how badly did WCE want Curtin and if they did, then they should be ridiculed for poor strategy.

I suspect you answered your own question. They valued Reid the most, still valued Curtin very highly but not as much as Reid. And if getting Curtin cost Reid, they were not prepared to do it.

Where it will really look good is if Curtin does end up being a star of the comp...and he is ours

 

[cmndstab]

Exactly and Danger even threatened to sit out a year too.

Adelaide were in a position of strength in dealing with Geelong.

GreyCrow

That's a position of strength? We can agree to pay a million dollars to a player who will then sit out for a year, generating a whole heap of bad luck, and then we lose the player for nothing the following season?

 

[cmndstab]

I thought that because we matched the contract it was either a trade had to be made or Dangerfield would go to the draft. The ball was in Geelong’s court to somehow cough up another 1st rounder or miss out on grabbing a top 5 player in the comp with most of his career still ahead of him.

We never matched the contract. We said we would, but talk is cheap. Geelong were always free to offer him whatever it took for us to not match it. In the end, the trade was finalised before push came to shove.

 

[George Kramer]

We never matched the contract. We said we would, but talk is cheap. Geelong were always free to offer him whatever it took for us to not match it. In the end, the trade was finalised before push came to shove.

So why didn’t they just do that and not trade?

 

[CrowHop]

So why didn’t they just do that and not trade?

Probably cap issues prevented them.


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[cmndstab]

So why didn’t they just do that and not trade?

It would likely have cost them an extra few hundred grand per year. With Henderson and Scott Selwood also coming in it would have required some other contracts being restructured. Geelong were pushing for a flag in 2016, no need for another 18 year old at the expense of shortchanging the senior players. Easier to just trade the pick and get him at the salary they wanted to pay.

Dangerfield was getting there either way.

 

[Pugsley]

Reading all of this, I hope Curtin is better than Dangerfield.

 

[Coopers]

If Curtin is worth WC F1st this year, he could be worth 2 x firsts next year. If West Coast offer that next year (24 + 25) we'd have to consider, depending on how Curtin had settled in.

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Only if he's not as good as we hope though.

Which we won't know in 1 year anyway.

You just don't find elite players that easily and they are easily worth those picks. So... no.

 

[George Kramer]

It would likely have cost them an extra few hundred grand per year. With Henderson and Scott Selwood also coming in it would have required some other contracts being restructured. Geelong were pushing for a flag in 2016, no need for another 18 year old at the expense of shortchanging the senior players. Easier to just trade the pick and get him at the salary they wanted to pay.

Dangerfield was getting there either way.

So it was in their interest to trade and they would have been concerned we could match an extra few hundred thousand, so it would have needed to be more than that to stop us from matching.

 

[119others]

^^^^^^^

I have seen this same crap debated so many times over the years. Seriously just move on as otherwise the same rehashed arguments FOR matching (extract better compo) and AGAINST (Kristof showing previously the probable flexibility with Cats salary structure allowing a non finalist to rejig contracts to outprice the Crows contending teams salary cap). Nobody knows for sure. Its almost a decade ago. Try living in the current and debating something NEW perhaps

 

[Chase13]

^^^^^^^

I have seen this same crap debated so many times over the years. Seriously just move on as otherwise the same rehashed arguments FOR matching (extract better compo) and AGAINST (Kristof showing previously the probable flexibility with Cats salary structure allowing a non finalist to rejig contracts to outprice the Crows contending teams salary cap). Nobody knows for sure. Its almost a decade ago. Try living in the current and debating something NEW perhaps

Totally agree thankyou

 

[Bearded Clam]

^^^^^^^

I have seen this same crap debated so many times over the years. Seriously just move on as otherwise the same rehashed arguments FOR matching (extract better compo) and AGAINST (Kristof showing previously the probable flexibility with Cats salary structure allowing a non finalist to rejig contracts to outprice the Crows contending teams salary cap). Nobody knows for sure. Its almost a decade ago. Try living in the current and debating something NEW perhaps

This your first time on a public forum?

 

[Sanders]

The bloke moves and plays like Lukosious’ identical twin

How has no one spotted that?

 

[Eagleboy2011]

The bloke moves and plays like Lukosious’ identical twin

How has no one spotted that?

Didn't know Luko had an identical twin.

I see shades of Bontempelli or Dawson in his moves.

 

[Sanders]

Geelong? They had a player who had demanded to go to them and only them, and could also get there via free agency without Geelong giving up anything more than a salary. It's hard to imagine a stronger position.

He can’t “demand” anything.

His only other route to Geelong was via the PSD, with their poor positioning in that draft, and that would have compromised all their other player acquisition plans

Which we should have torpedoed

They needed Danger to not take too much money as they were also recruiting - not to mention maintaining their precious salary cap structure they were so enamoured of

Henderson
Zac Smith
Scott Selwood

We had leverage to scupper their plans.

Having to force Danger at mega money to get past 3/4 of the league in the PSD (and maybe still not succeeding), then also giving up your other targets because free agency closes before the draft, blowing your vaunted salary cap structure - compared to us:

Take band 1 compensation for losing him

We had a dominant negotiating position as Geelongs best alternative to negotiated agreement was ****ed compared to our soft landing

 

[Sanders]

My memory of the event is also hazy, you may be right but I can’t imagine any scenario where we wouldn’t have matched Geelong’s offer. They already had a quality list and were therefore unlikely to be in a better salary cap position than us and the absolute best FA compensation we could hav received was an insulting pick 14.

Matching would have delayed and tied up their free agent money whilst we deliberated. They would be frozen for 3 days, unable to spend (acquire targets)

They desperately needed our compliance with their plans and their timings.

And we gladly obliged

 

[Sanders]

That's a position of strength? We can agree to pay a million dollars to a player who will then sit out for a year, generating a whole heap of bad luck, and then we lose the player for nothing the following season?

He can sit out a year, forfeit a years salary, and our rights over him are maintained. He literally would achieve nothing by doing so

 

[1970crow]

My memory of the Dangerfield trade was that Geelong essentially said "look, we're giving a first-round pick for Henderson. We've got this year's and next year's, we're not trading for another. Whichever club gets the deal done first gets to choose which one they want." There was no chance whatsoever we were going to get both, because Geelong always had the get-out-of-jail card of just taking Dangerfield as a free agent if things went pear-shaped.

We took pick 9 rather than taking the future first. Pick 28 and Dean Gore were just steak knives.

No they didn’t, they couldn’t outbid us even if they were prepared to have his contract offer go public.

 

[Sanders]

No they didn’t, they couldn’t outbid us even if they were prepared to have his contract offer go public.

They could not. Even with blowing up their salary scale and dropping their targets they could not outbid us

They also couldn’t outbid the rest of the league either

 

[1970crow]

Geelong? They had a player who had demanded to go to them and only them, and could also get there via free agency without Geelong giving up anything more than a salary. It's hard to imagine a stronger position.

So if they could have gone the salary only method, why do you think they didn’t?

 

[1970crow]

^^^^^^^

I have seen this same crap debated so many times over the years. Seriously just move on as otherwise the same rehashed arguments FOR matching (extract better compo) and AGAINST (Kristof showing previously the probable flexibility with Cats salary structure allowing a non finalist to rejig contracts to outprice the Crows contending teams salary cap). Nobody knows for sure. Its almost a decade ago. Try living in the current and debating something NEW perhaps

Throwing the toys out of the cot after having your lie called out? You seemed happy enough with the convo when peddling your bull$hit.

 

[George Kramer]

Throwing the toys out of the cot after having your lie called out? You seemed happy enough with the convo when peddling your bull$hit.

Hang on, he posted on the topic and then complained after? How did I miss that?