Confirmed Daniel Rioli - Traded with picks 51, 61, 70 & 76 to GC for picks 6 & 26

[THE_GUN]

All good points. Have nothing to do with overpaying for a player on the wrong side of his career

LOL wrong side of career would depend on what you classify as a career
if you get 130+ games out of a proven Rioli compared to 50 games from a Brodie what difference does it make which side of the career

There will be 15 kids taken in the top 40 that wont reach 100 games

 

[Broar]

LOL wrong side of career would depend on what you classify as a career
if you get 130+ games out of a proven Rioli compared to 50 games from a Brodie what difference does it make which side of the career

There will be 15 kids taken in the top 40 that wont reach 100 games

I don't know why you keep cherry picking stats. It goes both way. Rioli might only have 50 games left and that kid you pick instead could play 300 games and be a future brownlow medalist.

Honestly if you think Rioli is so good just keep him instead of harping on about draft picks.

 

[THE_GUN]

I don't know why you keep cherry picking stats. It goes both way. Rioli might only have 50 games left and that kid you pick instead could play 300 games and be a future brownlow medalist.

Honestly if you think Rioli is so good just keep him instead of harping on about draft picks.

Cherry picking what stats

rioli is a known player and draft picks are unknown and history tells you most dont make it and very few become 150 game players

tell Suns coach to leave our player alone so we can keep him

 

[Pure_Ownage]

He is not running everything

He is working to form the team he believes will play his game plan and the players he needs to implement that game plan
he had his 1st year to look over the list and see what he needs and has made the call on a few players he doesnt think gets him to where he wants and the players he needs and that is his job. surely you cant expect list managers to find players without the coaches influence to what he needs.

I think you misunderstood my post a bit. Of course a new coach should look over a list and work out what player types suit his new game plan best and tell his list manager. And if that includes rioli for the right reasons no issues. But when the clubs then try to negotiate the actual transaction hardwick should have no role in it at all and if it falls over because Richmond want too much or the gc list manager can't agree on a price he's happy with, that's fine.

I know for a fact that at Geelong (and I'd wager Sydney is similar) that there have been at least half a dozen quality players CS has wanted and recommended to the team but Wells said flat out no either due to the trade price being too much or other issues. And no pressure was put on wells by Scott or anyone else to change that because the coach understands the value of staying in his lane and not taking over the footy department.

If gc are smart they will make sure Damien does the same thing.

 

[THE_GUN]

I think you misunderstood my post a bit. Of course a new coach should look over a list and work out what player types suit his new game plan best and tell his list manager. And if that includes rioli for the right reasons no issues. But when the clubs then try to negotiate the actual transaction hardwick should have no role in it at all and if it falls over because Richmond want too much or the gc list manager can't agree on a price he's happy with, that's fine.

I know for a fact that at Geelong (and I'd wager Sydney is similar) that there have been at least half a dozen quality players CS has wanted and recommended to the team but Wells said flat out no either due to the trade price being too much or other issues. And no pressure was put on wells by Scott or anyone else to change that because the coach understands the value of staying in his lane and not taking over the footy department.

If gc are smart they will make sure Damien does the same thing.

And there is no indication this has not happened
Dimma would know in his mind what he wants and lets say Rioli is exactly what he wants
He would have discussed it with list management and his coaches and made that decision

But due to their past he would be the person to convince Rioli and sell him the dream/Club and it will be upto the manager to discuss this with Richmond and get the ball rolling.

2 clubs list managers would have had the chat with ground rules set and the indication would have been from Richmond on what would be acceptable and what would rule this totally out. Something like a top 10 pick plus a 2nd rounder
as it must be overs or wont get done. Dimma would have no input in negotiations but list management would know it must be done and unfortunately for the suns it will be over pay but that wont bother them as they are full with talented 18 year olds and will have another this year and 3 more next year so picks mean nothing to them at this time

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Gladly give pick 6 and more for Blakey, he’s 24 and a better player than Dan was at his age

Oh I think that's the point. I'd give up LOADS more for a contracted Blakey. Two firsts without even blinking.

Given an uncontracted Saad only 1 yr younger at the time went for 8, I don't think 6 plus scraps is off the mark for Rioli at all. And I imagine if Rioli was yours, and under a 3 year contract, it's the minimum you'd expect in return.

It's all dependent on the perspective you're coming from, eh?

 

[Rich01]

Gladly give pick 6 and more for Blakey, he’s 24 and a better player than Dan was at his age

Sounds good. So have they spent the last 12 months convincing him to move?

Or is this another pipe dream of yours?

 

[mrposhman]

My guess for the trade is Pick 6 and 26 for Rioli, 39 and F3

 

[SnusCG]

Just look back at the last 10 years and see what percentage of kids get to 150 games
or just look at Gold Coast top 10 picks since its inception and see how many have played 150 games for gold coast

Juts because I thought it would be an interesting exercise;

Players who have reach 150 game since being drafted by the Suns;

David Swallow - yes (240 games)
Harley Bennell - no, but was due to his off field behaviour/injuries (88 games)
Sam Day - yes (155 games)
Josh Caddy - yes (174 games)
Dion Prestia - yes (225 games)
Daniel Gorringe - no (26 games)
Kade Kolodjashnij - no but had to retire due to concussions (80 games)
Peter Wright - not yet but he will (133 games)
Callum Ah Chee - not yet but he will (143 games)
Ben Ainsworth - not yet but he will (134 games)
Jack Scrimshaw - not yet but he will (107 games)
Will Brodie - unlikely (54 games)
Jack Bowes - not yet but he will (122 games)
Jack Lukosius - not yet but he will (116 games)
Ben King - not yet but he will (95 games)
Izak Rankine - not yet but he will (83 games)
Matt Rowell - not yet but he will (85 games)
Noah Anderson - not yet but he will (104 games)
Elijah Hollands - maybe (36 games)
Mac Andrew - not yet but he will (41 games)
Bailey Humphrey - not yet but he will (40 games)
Jed Walter - maybe (14 games)
Ethan Read - maybe (4 games)

so we have 23 players total
4 who made it to 150 (Swallow, Day, Caddy, Prestia)
12 who unless injury cuts them down should (Wright, Ah Chee, Ainsworth, Scrimshaw, Bowes, Lukosius, King, Rankine, Rowell, Anderson, Andrew and Humphrey)
3 who are maybes (Hollands, Walter and Read)
1 who is unlikely (Brodie)
2 who had to retire due to injuries (Bennell and Kolodjashnij)
1 who was a flop (gorringe)

so thats:

83% who either made it or will likely make it
vs
17% either didn't or wont

it's not a terrible strike rate.

 

[Broar]

Juts because I thought it would be an interesting exercise;

Players who have reach 150 game since being drafted by the Suns;

David Swallow - yes (240 games)
Harley Bennell - no, but was due to his off field behaviour/injuries (88 games)
Sam Day - yes (155 games)
Josh Caddy - yes (174 games)
Dion Prestia - yes (225 games)
Daniel Gorringe - no (26 games)
Kade Kolodjashnij - no but had to retire due to concussions (80 games)
Peter Wright - not yet but he will (133 games)
Callum Ah Chee - not yet but he will (143 games)
Ben Ainsworth - not yet but he will (134 games)
Jack Scrimshaw - not yet but he will (107 games)
Will Brodie - unlikely (54 games)
Jack Bowes - not yet but he will (122 games)
Jack Lukosius - not yet but he will (116 games)
Ben King - not yet but he will (95 games)
Izak Rankine - not yet but he will (83 games)
Matt Rowell - not yet but he will (85 games)
Noah Anderson - not yet but he will (104 games)
Elijah Hollands - maybe (36 games)
Mac Andrew - not yet but he will (41 games)
Bailey Humphrey - not yet but he will (40 games)
Jed Walter - maybe (14 games)
Ethan Read - maybe (4 games)

so we have 23 players total
4 who made it to 150 (Swallow, Day, Caddy, Prestia)
12 who unless injury cuts them down should (Wright, Ah Chee, Ainsworth, Scrimshaw, Bowes, Lukosius, King, Rankine, Rowell, Anderson, Andrew and Humphrey)
3 who are maybes (Hollands, Walter and Read)
1 who is unlikely (Brodie)
2 who had to retire due to injuries (Bennell and Kolodjashnij)
1 who was a flop (gorringe)

so thats:

83% who either made it or will likely make it
vs
17% either didn't or wont

it's not a terrible strike rate.

I wonder how many 28 year olds would go on to play another 130 games or another 8 years?

 

[THE_GUN]

Juts because I thought it would be an interesting exercise;

Players who have reach 150 game since being drafted by the Suns;

David Swallow - yes (240 games)
Harley Bennell - no, but was due to his off field behaviour/injuries (88 games)
Sam Day - yes (155 games)
Josh Caddy - yes (174 games)
Dion Prestia - yes (225 games)
Daniel Gorringe - no (26 games)
Kade Kolodjashnij - no but had to retire due to concussions (80 games)
Peter Wright - not yet but he will (133 games)
Callum Ah Chee - not yet but he will (143 games)
Ben Ainsworth - not yet but he will (134 games)
Jack Scrimshaw - not yet but he will (107 games)
Will Brodie - unlikely (54 games)
Jack Bowes - not yet but he will (122 games)
Jack Lukosius - not yet but he will (116 games)
Ben King - not yet but he will (95 games)
Izak Rankine - not yet but he will (83 games)
Matt Rowell - not yet but he will (85 games)
Noah Anderson - not yet but he will (104 games)
Elijah Hollands - maybe (36 games)
Mac Andrew - not yet but he will (41 games)
Bailey Humphrey - not yet but he will (40 games)
Jed Walter - maybe (14 games)
Ethan Read - maybe (4 games)

so we have 23 players total
4 who made it to 150 (Swallow, Day, Caddy, Prestia)
12 who unless injury cuts them down should (Wright, Ah Chee, Ainsworth, Scrimshaw, Bowes, Lukosius, King, Rankine, Rowell, Anderson, Andrew and Humphrey)
3 who are maybes (Hollands, Walter and Read)
1 who is unlikely (Brodie)
2 who had to retire due to injuries (Bennell and Kolodjashnij)
1 who was a flop (gorringe)

so thats:

83% who either made it or will likely make it
vs
17% either didn't or wont

it's not a terrible strike rate.

That is a good strike rate actually but what did stand out is how many have been disappointing to what the projected as juniors like Swallow , Day , Wright , Luko , Brodie , Bowes , Scrimshaw , Ainsworth , Caddy so far
I remember all of their drafts and how high the expectations were and what they actually produced.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

My guess for the trade is Pick 6 and 26 for Rioli, 39 and F3

Pick #6 on it's own is overs imo.

 

[dean33]

Pick #6 on it's own is overs imo.

It is, and we want more. This trade isn’t about getting fair compensation it’s about fleecing the suns.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It is, and we want more. This trade isn’t about getting fair compensation it’s about fleecing the suns.

Good luck with that.

Rioli isn't worth a top 10 pick imo, but we will see how desperate the Suns are.

 

[Jirik13]

Preaching to the converted mate, I think P6 for Rioli is ridiculous unless they are paying the majority of his wage and even then it’s still way over the top. Unfortunately Craig Cameron couldn’t win a poker hand to save his life. I’m sure he’d fold four Aces but only after going all in

Sorry but I have to correct you again. I can't help it. Dimma drives it with board approval. Anything major like this is approved by board.

So, are Dimma and board also idiots? Or will you just blame Cameron who has no final say. I am still waiting for you questioning Dimma who said we don't need picks. Not that it matters what he or the club says, IMO.

FWIW, listen to Magpies McRae when he is talking about improving their list. Every time he takes mature players over picks. And they paid bloody overs for that average small forward from Freo - Schultz

Picks are just hope for future. Half of picks don't work out. That's all-what Tigers fans have right now except basking in past glory. Let them enjoy it. Min next 3 years will be brutal for them most probably.

IMO, pick 6 is part of the deal. The rest of it I have no idea. But I doubt Tigers would pass on pick 6 if we offered nothing else.

In the end, it's all about Suns list, where it is. And IMO, it looks bloody promising with all 5 kids from last year look like a real deal down the track, with more top talent like Lombard, Zeke Uwland coming in. We will have enough picks for them.

If Rioli and Noble will assist Suns in playing finals next year whatever we pay for them will be worth it. Just imagine if we don't play finals and Rowell says I had enough and some other players will follow.

 

[stallon]

FWIW, listen to Magpies McRae when he is talking about improving their list. Every time he takes mature players over picks. And they paid bloody overs for that average small forward from Freo - Schultz

What was projected to be a mid to late teens pick in the future plus a pick in the 30s for Schulz was a very fair price considering he was contracted and Freo were trying to make finals too.
Not a good example

 

[Jirik13]

What was projected to be a mid to late teens pick in the future plus a pick in the 30s for Schulz was a very fair price considering he was contracted and Freo were trying to make finals too.
Not a good example

I disagree. Bloody average player, yes trying hard. IMO, easily overs even your projection. I do understand why Magpies paid overs and have no problem with it.

 

[stallon]

I disagree. Bloody average player, yes trying hard. IMO, easily overs even your projection. I do understand why Magpies paid overs and have no problem with it.

Did you ever watch him play when he was at Freo? Doesnt sound like you did.

Liam Baker is the example im going to use, the value Baker seems to be at is between 15 and 20 depending on who you ask. Schulz was better than Baker, and Schulz was contracted while Baker isnt.
30 goals a year while getting up the ground isnt something a very average player does

 

[eastfreo75]

My guess for the trade is Pick 6 and 26 for Rioli, 39 and F3

lol

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Sorry but I have to correct you again. I can't help it. Dimma drives it with board approval. Anything major like this is approved by board.

So, are Dimma and board also idiots? Or will you just blame Cameron who has no final say. I am still waiting for you questioning Dimma who said we don't need picks. Not that it matters what he or the club says, IMO.

FWIW, listen to Magpies McRae when he is talking about improving their list. Every time he takes mature players over picks. And they paid bloody overs for that average small forward from Freo - Schultz

Picks are just hope for future. Half of picks don't work out. That's all-what Tigers fans have right now except basking in past glory. Let them enjoy it. Min next 3 years will be brutal for them most probably.

IMO, pick 6 is part of the deal. The rest of it I have no idea. But I doubt Tigers would pass on pick 6 if we offered nothing else.

In the end, it's all about Suns list, where it is. And IMO, it looks bloody promising with all 5 kids from last year look like a real deal down the track, with more top talent like Lombard, Zeke Uwland coming in. We will have enough picks for them.

If Rioli and Noble will assist Suns in playing finals next year whatever we pay for them will be worth it. Just imagine if we don't play finals and Rowell says I had enough and some other players will follow.

What about Essendon having zero situation awareness, bring in mckay goldy, dursma and gresham, they thought they were close to finals and ultimately just delayed leaning into a rebuild and backing in youth. North Melbourne did the same, tried bringing in mature aged talent to get them to the promise land, fell short and still haven't recovered.

You can go too soon, whether that's the case for Gold Coast remains to be seen, we have a glut of talented youth, but alot of undersized mids and still have a lot of holes in our list. There's no point selling the farm for a player if if leaves us vulnerable in other areas

 

[4tune8]

I see Cotchin was well received at the Lions.

Something to bear in mind, particularly those oppo supporters who are downplaying the value of players that have learnt how to perform on the big stage over a sustained period.

From Coaches, assistant coaches, list managers, recruiters, fitness and performance managers to most importantly the players there's a reason why they're in hot demand, the intel doesn't grow on trees.

So Freo and the GCS have none of this retained generational knowledge (the Lions could be lumped here too), the Suns acquired Dimma (Fagan for the Lions) for this very reason, he knows what's needed to play a competitive, finals type football

 

[richoatthedisco]

What about Essendon having zero situation awareness, bring in mckay goldy, dursma and gresham, they thought they were close to finals and ultimately just delayed leaning into a rebuild and backing in youth. North Melbourne did the same, tried bringing in mature aged talent to get them to the promise land, fell short and still haven't recovered.

You can go too soon, whether that's the case for Gold Coast remains to be seen, we have a glut of talented youth, but alot of undersized mids and still have a lot of holes in our list. There's no point selling the farm for a player if if leaves us vulnerable in other areas

The expansion franchises can and do have it both ways. They can trade premium picks for experienced quality players, and pick up premium kids for shrapnel they found down the back of the couch.

 

[Iva Bigun]

Sorry but I have to correct you again. I can't help it. Dimma drives it with board approval. Anything major like this is approved by board.

So, are Dimma and board also idiots? Or will you just blame Cameron who has no final say. I am still waiting for you questioning Dimma who said we don't need picks. Not that it matters what he or the club says, IMO.

FWIW, listen to Magpies McRae when he is talking about improving their list. Every time he takes mature players over picks. And they paid bloody overs for that average small forward from Freo - Schultz

Picks are just hope for future. Half of picks don't work out. That's all-what Tigers fans have right now except basking in past glory. Let them enjoy it. Min next 3 years will be brutal for them most probably.

IMO, pick 6 is part of the deal. The rest of it I have no idea. But I doubt Tigers would pass on pick 6 if we offered nothing else.

In the end, it's all about Suns list, where it is. And IMO, it looks bloody promising with all 5 kids from last year look like a real deal down the track, with more top talent like Lombard, Zeke Uwland coming in. We will have enough picks for them.

If Rioli and Noble will assist Suns in playing finals next year whatever we pay for them will be worth it. Just imagine if we don't play finals and Rowell says I had enough and some other players will follow.

Thanks for correcting me with your opinion

 

[Jirik13]

Did you ever watch him play when he was at Freo? Doesnt sound like you did.

Liam Baker is the example im going to use, the value Baker seems to be at is between 15 and 20 depending on who you ask. Schulz was better than Baker, and Schulz was contracted while Baker isnt.
30 goals a year while getting up the ground isnt something a very average player does

Yeah, I watched every Freo's game. Just disagree how you value Schultz. That's OK. I still remember not long time ago (a couple of year before he left) when Freo fans were pretty sure Schultz will not make it. Baker over Schultz ever time for me. But this is Rioli thread. Enough on Schultz from me.

Even bloody Owies scored 33 goals and now is looking for a job.

 

[THE_GUN]

Pick #6 on it's own is overs imo.

Then your opinion is wrong

a bit like that bloke who says thats too much for that house but the house gets sold for 20% more at the auction and he walks away saying they over paid.

Sometimes when you want something bad enough you pay what the seller asks and that becomes its value