Darcy Moore Contract extension

[left at home]

It’s going to be worse if he signs with somebody else or if he gets injured again...he has currency at the moment.

Hang on, you wanted to trade Darcy and billy last year, yet with Darcy you are worried he will sign with another team, then says he has currency at the moment. Which is it.
I believe the older Darcy gets the less injuries he will have, as yes you can build a premiership team around him.
Billy is an a grader, just has to manage his training loads

 

[DrDavoren]

Isn’t he an UFA?
I thought we will not have anything to demand in return if that is the case?!?
Would love to be wrong on this account.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[left at home]

Isn’t he an UFA?
I thought we will not have anything to demand in return if that is the case?!?
Would love to be wrong on this account.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Don’t think so, two years to go l think. Has to be traded.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Not too concerned about Darcy's contract, I think that one will be put away in due course

De Goey the more worrisome one

Know it's not a real AFL club but with him rejecting the $5M offer from Norf, what makes you worried?

 

[jmac70]

It’s going to be worse if he signs with somebody else or if he gets injured again...he has currency at the moment.

He can’t just sign with another team. There would be a trade.

 

[grayza2018]

Know it's not a real AFL club but with him rejecting the $5M offer from Norf, what makes you worried?

Probably just the fact the offers will come again, with more vigour. And the decision could go deep

Probably just my pessimism shining through!

 

[grayza2018]

Don’t think so, two years to go l think. Has to be traded.

I'm of the same opinion, not a free agent so trade would have to happen

 

[TradeDraft]

One year out the values of each piece remains ambiguous and in flux.

If Moore plays the whole season. His value skyrockets. If he plays another part season, you're only going to attract half-hearted offers.

Depending on the development of RCD and Balta, their values similarly could vary widely. What if at the end of next season they're still outside best 22 players? Balta 3 years in, RCD 2. If it means for Richmond they can get a star who improves their best 22 for guys who aren't playing, being a win-now situation, keen to add to their premiership tally, Richmond likely if they could fit Moore into their salary cap would be willing to give up those pieces. Would a combination of those pieces if RCD and Balta don't develop attract a top-5 pick (which is what in pick terms Collingwood would demand for Moore if it's not a package along these lines).

To start out trade negotiations if a club is asking for one of your stars, absolutely you need to start from an unrealistic starting point and work your way down from there. Get a feel for which pieces the other club are more/less willing to trade and tweaks can be made from there.

Then you have the Richmond picks late first round this year and next that aren't worth a lot either. With Richmond's picks after bidding likely moving back to more like 30ish this year and maybe 25ish the following year, which isn't all that appealing.

If looking at past trades for comparable key position players, typically the return is something like pick 5 is roughly what you're looking at, though I've always considered such valuations to be unders with picks around that range far from certain to develop and picks consistently overrated by AFL clubs and established players consistently underrated.

The only year I'd say is an exception is 2018 with the top end that year as I was saying at the time unreal with those first 7 chosen a rare case where I'd have been taking them ahead of say your Steven May who yielded Gold Coast pick 6 = Ben King. With Bailey Smith still on the table. Having Walsh/Lukosius/Rankine/M.King/Rozee/B.King/Smith and with Thomas and Blakey not yet bid on. That's a one in a few decade kind of top end.

Moore can be the best KPP in the AFL.

Was in AA Form Pre-injury then came back for a Strong end of Season.

Be dumb to lose Moore and IF he goes would want lot for him but he not Leaving

 

[TradeDraft]

Absolutely Agree with everything you said, our midfield is way over rated and has been for a couple of years

So is Grundy also overrated then?

 

[TradeDraft]

This reminds me of last year when ever there was talk about Grundy everyone shits themselves and think he is Gone but he Re-Signed like what Moore and De Goey will do

 

[Knightmare]

Moore can be the best KPP in the AFL.

Was in AA Form Pre-injury then came back for a Strong end of Season.

Be dumb to lose Moore and IF he goes would want lot for him but he not Leaving

If Moore wants to stay and is committed to staying. I'm fine with him staying. If he wants out, I'd be seeking a lot, because as you say, when healthy, Moore can play.

I don't think Moore is nearly the best KPP in the AFL. He's no Franklin/Cameron/Lynch as a forward or McGovern in defence. But I think Moore is an excellent nonetheless.

 

[jmac70]

If Moore wants to stay and is committed to staying. I'm fine with him staying. If he wants out, I'd be seeking a lot, because as you say, when healthy, Moore can play.

I don't think Moore is nearly the best KPP in the AFL. He's no Franklin/Cameron/Lynch as a forward or McGovern in defence. But I think Moore is an excellent nonetheless.

Moore is more athletic than all the players you mentioned. He is the complete package.

 

[TradeDraft]

If Moore wants to stay and is committed to staying. I'm fine with him staying. If he wants out, I'd be seeking a lot, because as you say, when healthy, Moore can play.

I don't think Moore is nearly the best KPP in the AFL. He's no Franklin/Cameron/Lynch as a forward or McGovern in defence. But I think Moore is an excellent nonetheless.

IF Moore had not had Injury Issues I would think he could been in the same Sentence as those guys and I could say at times last year he was as good as McGovern

 

[Barham to Kink]

Not the best or one of the best KPPs in the game today but the kid really doesn’t have much of a ceiling to his potential - or none that I can see anyway. I think he will end up the better player of the three being BG, De Goey and him

 

[Knightmare]

Moore is more athletic than all the players you mentioned. He is the complete package.

Better athlete doesn't mean better footballer. Athleticism is a bonus, but I don't care if guys are athletic or unathletic. It's a nice to have because it can create points of difference if you can translate it to your game which can make you a better footballer, but I wouldn't go any further than that.

The concept of completeness of game is another that is often wrongly evaluated.

You can have the most complete game in a sport, but there are guys who will be better because there are 2-3 elements to their game that are elite on historic standards that make them better.

My view is you need more than one dimension to be great. Travis Cloke is a great example of this. When he was great, he wasn't only stronger than everyone, but he was clunking marks and had the endurance to cover the ground to a level where rival key defenders couldn't stay with him, and if they had that kind of endurance base, there was no way they would have the strength or capacity to stop him marking the footy. Then you look at him late career when his hands weren't as good and his running declined and he became one dimensional as someone who was used close to goal in the hope he could overpower guys, but without the marking or running, he was easily stopped.

You can be Fyfe and not be able to kick, or Buddy who isn't a great overhead or contested mark. But you can still be dominant at your position, or Cloke and be a liability when the ball hits the ground and a poor field and set shot kick. You can have guys with more complete games than any of them, but they just won't be as dominant because they're not great on the same level in that group of categories to be that same level of difference maker on game day.

That's why from a development perspective it's so essential to take an attitude towards building the strength of guys and using them in positions where those natural strengths can be maximised and allow them to develop.

IF Moore had not had Injury Issues I would think he could been in the same Sentence as those guys and I could say at times last year he was as good as McGovern

With key defenders it depends on what you value.

Jeremy McGovern is the best key defender in the competition and has been for some years now from my perspective. He's not athletic at all and. Never has been, never will be. And he doesn't need to be. He doesn't need to be because he reads it and takes 1v1 and contested intercept marks on a level like no one else in the competition.

Any ball going into the air in that West Coast defensive 50m McGovern ultimately swallows. You can't kick it high within 20m of him or he's taking the intercept mark. In the history of the competition we haven't seen anyone else who does that on that level. He's special. And that's as incredible of a weapon as I've seen in a defence. Turning what in normal circumstances would be a 50/50 ball into a ball your team take possession of in the area you don't want 50/50 balls and want to gain possession. McGovern from any analytical standpoint is incredible.

Moore can take intercept marks and take some out of the air. He's a better athlete and better shutdown player, but he's not nearly as dominant 1v1 and he's not taking those same 1v1 marks or as many intercept marks.

Moore can still improve further if he can stay healthy and I'm hopeful he does. Nonetheless, I don't see Moore at least with the way I evaluate the game being McGovern great.

If building an ultimate team template, having McGovern in defence is the first guy in that half I'd pick any day, and if the pressure is coming up the field, in the way the modern game is played, McGovern is that perfect key defender because he's going to eat up those high balls that come in all day when those up the field bring that pressure to an elite level. It's like with Ben Reid in 2011. Reid was special in 2011 with the way Dale Thomas and that whole squad were committed to bringing the pressure, Reid feasted on it all with all those intercept marks and McGovern is that on another level 1v1/intercept marking/contested intercept marking. Defence particularly is going to move more and more in that pressure direction and forward pressure keeps elevating year on year which only makes these McGovern's even better and future proofed into the future.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Some discussions scheduled for next week??

 

[TradeDraft]

My view is you need more than one dimension to be great. Travis Cloke is a great example of this. When he was great, he wasn't only stronger than everyone, but he was clunking marks and had the endurance to cover the ground to a level where rival key defenders couldn't stay with him, and if they had that kind of endurance base, there was no way they would have the strength or capacity to stop him marking the footy. Then you look at him late career when his hands weren't as good and his running declined and he became one dimensional as someone who was used close to goal in the hope he could overpower guys, but without the marking or running, he was easily stopped.

You can be Fyfe and not be able to kick, or Buddy who isn't a great overhead or contested mark. But you can still be dominant at your position, or Cloke and be a liability when the ball hits the ground and a poor field and set shot kick. You can have guys with more complete games than any of them, but they just won't be as dominant because they're not great on the same level in that group of categories to be that same level of difference maker on game day.

Cloke was a Liability with his Shocking Set Shot Goal Kicking

 

[Knightmare]

Cloke was a Liability with his Shocking Set Shot Goal Kicking

2016/2017 Cloke was ineffective. But they're the only years I'd be calling Cloke ineffective.

2007-2013 Cloke was among the best key forwards in the competition.

No question Cloke was a poor set shot goal kicker, field kicking to targets was poor and he was a liability at ground level, particularly after 2011 that element of his game became a liability.

But his contested marking and endurance during his best years made him unstoppable and a significant difference maker.

 

[TradeDraft]

2016/2017 Cloke was ineffective. But they're the only years I'd be calling Cloke ineffective.

2007-2013 Cloke was among the best key forwards in the competition.

No question Cloke was a poor set shot goal kicker, field kicking to targets was poor and he was a liability at ground level, particularly after 2011 that element of his game became a liability.

But his contested marking and endurance during his best years made him unstoppable and a significant difference maker.

I can't Belive someone being the Best Key Forward IF you kick more Points then Goals

 

[TradeDraft]

Jeremy McGovern is the best key defender in the competition and has been for some years now from my perspective. He's not athletic at all and. Never has been, never will be. And he doesn't need to be. He doesn't need to be because he reads it and takes 1v1 and contested intercept marks on a level like no one else in the competition.

Any ball going into the air in that West Coast defensive 50m McGovern ultimately swallows. You can't kick it high within 20m of him or he's taking the intercept mark. In the history of the competition we haven't seen anyone else who does that on that level. He's special. And that's as incredible of a weapon as I've seen in a defence. Turning what in normal circumstances would be a 50/50 ball into a ball your team take possession of in the area you don't want 50/50 balls and want to gain possession. McGovern from any analytical standpoint is incredible.

Moore can take intercept marks and take some out of the air. He's a better athlete and better shutdown player, but he's not nearly as dominant 1v1 and he's not taking those same 1v1 marks or as many intercept marks.

Moore can still improve further if he can stay healthy and I'm hopeful he does. Nonetheless, I don't see Moore at least with the way I evaluate the game being McGovern great.

Correct McGovern been doing it for a few years where Moore only really last season with his Injury History.

But I thought Moore improved his 1v1 during the year.

Early in the year he struggled at times and played more off his man then next to his man but I felt end of the Season he was doing that more and better

 

[Knightmare]

I can't Belive someone being the Best Key Forward IF you kick more Points then Goals

2011-2017 in each season Cloke kicked more goals than he did kick behinds.

For his career he kicked 87 more goals than behinds.

I'd be interested to see Cloke's set shot goal kicking stats compared to Pendlebury, Bontempelli, D.Thomas, D.Beams. Just fours names top of mind, but they're both guys I'd regard as poor set shot goal kickers and I'd expect the stats would be comparable to Cloke's if not in some cases somewhat worse. And none of them are bad kicks, they're all able field kicks or in the case of Pendlebury and Bontempelli excellent field kicks. But from set shots they're all terrible.

I wouldn't regard Cloke as any more unreliable than any of them from set shots.

My view is more so than if Cloke suddenly became a reliable set shot goal kicker overnight, it's actually if he improved at ground level - had a better turning circle and was cleaner below his knees. That would have extended his career a lot longer to the extent that he could well still be playing today.

As a kick, my view is Cloke's field kicking was worse than his set shot goal kicking - too much air on his kicks and not placing kicks out in front of guys to lead onto, too often just blasting to contests/down the line. That's something else I also had more of a problem with, with Cloke.

Correct McGovern been doing it for a few years where Moore only really last season with his Injury History.

But I thought Moore improved his 1v1 during the year.

Early in the year he struggled at times and played more off his man then next to his man but I felt end of the Season he was doing that more and better

The stats when I looked, and it seems that the stats for last season are no longer available, but 1v1 Moore's stats were unimpressive compared to rival players.

Moore's intercept possessions though were very high and intercept mark numbers also good. Rebound good as he has pace and a good kick. Can defend leading forwards and has the mobility and coordination when it hits the deck. And he can pluck it out of the air. So Moore is obviously terrific. I would still however regard his 1v1 play to be a relative weakness other than his poor durability/availability.

 

[JB1975]

I've got no doubt that Moore has the makings of one of the best KPPs in the game. His body has let him down, but the attributes have been clear to see. He is a natural footballer, in the sense that he reads the ball off the boot better than most. His ability to position himself for a contest --and to win-- is elite. There were games last season when he was in everything, seemed to be everywhere.

Without recycling the forward v defence debate, some consistent football has allowed him to become damaging off the backline. He started to back himself last season, by bolting more, which allowed his athleticism to flourish alongside his obvious football nous. To my mind, he can be a key component of our forward line from defence, by the force and fluency of his rebounds.

 

[jmac70]

Better athlete doesn't mean better footballer. Athleticism is a bonus, but I don't care if guys are athletic or unathletic. It's a nice to have because it can create points of difference if you can translate it to your game which can make you a better footballer, but I wouldn't go any further than that.

The concept of completeness of game is another that is often wrongly evaluated.

You can have the most complete game in a sport, but there are guys who will be better because there are 2-3 elements to their game that are elite on historic standards that make them better.

My view is you need more than one dimension to be great. Travis Cloke is a great example of this. When he was great, he wasn't only stronger than everyone, but he was clunking marks and had the endurance to cover the ground to a level where rival key defenders couldn't stay with him, and if they had that kind of endurance base, there was no way they would have the strength or capacity to stop him marking the footy. Then you look at him late career when his hands weren't as good and his running declined and he became one dimensional as someone who was used close to goal in the hope he could overpower guys, but without the marking or running, he was easily stopped.

You can be Fyfe and not be able to kick, or Buddy who isn't a great overhead or contested mark. But you can still be dominant at your position, or Cloke and be a liability when the ball hits the ground and a poor field and set shot kick. You can have guys with more complete games than any of them, but they just won't be as dominant because they're not great on the same level in that group of categories to be that same level of difference maker on game day.

That's why from a development perspective it's so essential to take an attitude towards building the strength of guys and using them in positions where those natural strengths can be maximised and allow them to develop.



With key defenders it depends on what you value.

Jeremy McGovern is the best key defender in the competition and has been for some years now from my perspective. He's not athletic at all and. Never has been, never will be. And he doesn't need to be. He doesn't need to be because he reads it and takes 1v1 and contested intercept marks on a level like no one else in the competition.

Any ball going into the air in that West Coast defensive 50m McGovern ultimately swallows. You can't kick it high within 20m of him or he's taking the intercept mark. In the history of the competition we haven't seen anyone else who does that on that level. He's special. And that's as incredible of a weapon as I've seen in a defence. Turning what in normal circumstances would be a 50/50 ball into a ball your team take possession of in the area you don't want 50/50 balls and want to gain possession. McGovern from any analytical standpoint is incredible.

Moore can take intercept marks and take some out of the air. He's a better athlete and better shutdown player, but he's not nearly as dominant 1v1 and he's not taking those same 1v1 marks or as many intercept marks.

Moore can still improve further if he can stay healthy and I'm hopeful he does. Nonetheless, I don't see Moore at least with the way I evaluate the game being McGovern great.

If building an ultimate team template, having McGovern in defence is the first guy in that half I'd pick any day, and if the pressure is coming up the field, in the way the modern game is played, McGovern is that perfect key defender because he's going to eat up those high balls that come in all day when those up the field bring that pressure to an elite level. It's like with Ben Reid in 2011. Reid was special in 2011 with the way Dale Thomas and that whole squad were committed to bringing the pressure, Reid feasted on it all with all those intercept marks and McGovern is that on another level 1v1/intercept marking/contested intercept marking. Defence particularly is going to move more and more in that pressure direction and forward pressure keeps elevating year on year which only makes these McGovern's even better and future proofed into the future.

Moore can play back, forward and on the ball in the ruck. His versatility is almost without equal. That makes him extremely valuable.

 

[Sea fog]

I liked the pack marks he took in the finals.

 

[Knightmare]

Moore can play back, forward and on the ball in the ruck. His versatility is almost without equal. That makes him extremely valuable.

You won't have me disagreeing with you there jmac.

I'd say equally capable in all three positions and I'm not even sure key defence is Moore's optimal position.

I've speculated perhaps ruck is his best spot, but with Grundy, at least for Collingwood Moore will never receive that opportunity.

If there was an optimal situation for Moore. I'd personally say Geelong. Play Moore as the number one ruckman and that's where I'd speculate he would play his best football. Not that they're necessarily going to have the currency to make a good offer for Moore.