Player Watch Darcy Moore

[sr36]

I think Cloke was the beginning of what turned CFC supporters against long term contracts.

Forgot about that one. But the reality is that he signed when he was worth a shit load. He would have gotten a significantly higher 3 year deal and then a significantly lower 2 year deal - would often work out much the same - even when it's a perceived failure.

 

[Markfs]

i'd be a lot happier if part of the contract required darcy to find a new manager...

 

[loki04]

I think Cloke was the beginning of what turned CFC supporters against long term contracts.

Then Grundys contract. Paying overs is our thing. Grundy should of been max 5 year term and about 100k less.

 

[loki04]

If you look at it individually - yes, but that just brings it down to luck. I see risk either way. Fair chance we'd be paying Moore $100,000,000+ per year if we gave him two 3 year contracts - this contract gives a pretty significant saving in that case.

Policy wise, if you get your discounts and player evaluations right - (saving versus the risk of players of that calibre not living up to the contract) you might be able to manage your risk so that you are more likely to win in the long run by offering long term contracts. Basically, you've got to factor in the wins from long term contracts against the losses in order to decide whether they are a good idea - yet this board only focusses on the perceived losses.

That’s a lot of dollars there sr. $100,000,000+

 

[Markfs]

Forgot about that one. But the reality is that he signed when he was worth a shit load. He would have gotten a significantly higher 3 year deal and then a significantly lower 2 year deal - would often work out much the same - even when it's a perceived failure.

I cant think of a long term deal where the player has lost out....certainly not to the level that the club has lost out

 

[loki04]

$900K works out to be around 6.5% of our salary cap.

Doesn’t seem too unreasonable?

900k to Grundy too.
900k Moore.
900k Degoey is also what his agent said pies need to stump up.

All of a sudden our caps shot to shit.

 

[sr36]

That’s a lot of dollars there sr. $100,000,000+

The ******ed thing is I edited it to add in the extra zeroes as it did not look right to me.

 

[Kappa]

To be fair it’s not Darcy’s fault Grundy has decided to serve up absolute horse shit since signing the long term deal.

How can players find the same levels of motivation when they know deep down all they need to do is turn up and they get close to a million per year? There’s no financial incentive to push that little harder like a short term contract has, which is why grundys dropped off

 

[loki04]

The longer the contract, the more discounted the rate will be, so it's a gamble either way. You can either reduce the yearly amount by giving a longer contract or you can pay the full whack with a shorter term one. In terms of 5+ year contracts, we'll have had wins with Pendles, Adams, Crisp, Sidebottom- the Treloar contract was too convoluted with back pay to really know. Grundy's isn't looking great, but he'll probably play out the 7 years and a 3 year contract would have taken a huge amount of cash per year, so hard to know. Time will tell with Moore. Personally, I think we're probably ahead regarding our long contract bets.

Huge more then his 950k already? Radelaide were only offering 1.1 mil rumoured.

 

[VinnieB]

And here in lies the conundrum, if Darcy plays 18 -22 games per year over the duration of his contract , it’s a massive win as the guy is a brilliant footballer , the other guy who we caved into , is not a brilliant footballer , just a good/average plodder , I hope Darcy’s body holds up in the main , as he is an elite talent who decides outcomes of many contests , Good luck Darcy. I’m confident we will get good return on this investment. I am bullish .

I'm not sure about that. Grundy was 2x All-AUstralian and 2x Copeland trophy winner. Polled 23 votes in the Brownlow. He was a ruckman/midfielder in the one player. He was becoming the face of Collingwood. My kids still wear the footy socks with Grundy's face on it they received in their junior membership kits back then.

He was not a good/average plodder. Sure he hasn't reached those same heights, but in 2018/2019, he was probably our best player.
If Grundy's contract was 5 years, it would have been more acceptable.

I'd love to know how the $$ are spread. For instance, with Grundy are the final 2 years at $400k? Have we seen the biggest hit to the cap already in 2020/2021 and 2022? Same with Moore, it would be interesting to understanding when it peaks.

And finally, it will be interesting what is available for JDG. May be similar to the Melbourne Storm situation, and he ends up being offered alot less than he expects.

 

[Forethought]

It’s a long term deal.

It’s looking like inflation will go up, the the national economy will probably do well (as happens after times of hardship like pandemics), footy is looking to be as popular as ever, so TPP will likely go up. By the time year 6 rolls around, $900K will probably be like $800K is today.

For what it’s worth. Most modern contracts signed long term over a CBA period and above $600k have automatic % increases / decreases to the TPP this going up or down. So $900k today in 6 years is likely to be $950-975k.
Only a couple of clubs pre COVID didn’t have this in their players contracts that being the Crows and I think WCE. To my knowledge all clubs have this now.
This then gives surety to understanding longterm contracts won’t be effected by new CBA agreements.

 

[VinnieB]

How can players find the same levels of motivation when they know deep down all they need to do is turn up and they get close to a million per year? There’s no financial incentive to push that little harder like a short term contract has, which is why grundys dropped off

Do the numbers include incentives? Or are they a guaranteed $900k pa?

 

[loki04]

I'm not sure about that. Grundy was 2x All-AUstralian and 2x Copeland trophy winner. Polled 23 votes in the Brownlow. He was a ruckman/midfielder in the one player. He was becoming the face of Collingwood. My kids still wear the footy socks with Grundy's face on it they received in their junior membership kits back then.

He was not a good/average plodder. Sure he hasn't reached those same heights, but in 2018/2019, he was probably our best player.
If Grundy's contract was 5 years, it would have been more acceptable.

I'd love to know how the $$ are spread. For instance, with Grundy are the final 2 years at $400k? Have we seen the biggest hit to the cap already in 2020/2021 and 2022? Same with Moore, it would be interesting to understanding when it peaks.

And finally, it will be interesting what is available for JDG. May be similar to the Melbourne Storm situation, and he ends up being offered alot less than he expects.

It’s very doubtful that Grundys contract was front loaded given the Treloar saga.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

How can players find the same levels of motivation when they know deep down all they need to do is turn up and they get close to a million per year? There’s no financial incentive to push that little harder like a short term contract has, which is why grundys dropped off

I’ll let you know once I’ve experienced it for myself, but it seems to me that beyond a certain point, the money wouldn’t change your life that much. Day-to-day, how much better is your life if you’re making $800kpa instead of $600kpa?

I think most of these elite guys are motivated by on-field success for themselves and their team, it would be a hard slog doing it all for money.

 

[sr36]

I cant think of a long term deal where the player has lost out....certainly not to the level that the club has lost out

Noone talks about it, but heaps of players would have been better off financially if they signed a two then a three year deal when peaking rather than locking in the security. Basically every good player who signed a long term deal and maintained their form. For a player, long term deals are expensive insurance. Clubs are in the position of the insurance company and should be able to manage their risk to win in the long run with long term contracts.

 

[Matrix10]

I'm not sure about that. Grundy was 2x All-AUstralian and 2x Copeland trophy winner. Polled 23 votes in the Brownlow. He was a ruckman/midfielder in the one player. He was becoming the face of Collingwood. My kids still wear the footy socks with Grundy's face on it they received in their junior membership kits back then.

He was not a good/average plodder. Sure he hasn't reached those same heights, but in 2018/2019, he was probably our best player.
If Grundy's contract was 5 years, it would have been more acceptable.

I'd love to know how the $$ are spread. For instance, with Grundy are the final 2 years at $400k? Have we seen the biggest hit to the cap already in 2020/2021 and 2022? Same with Moore, it would be interesting to understanding when it peaks.

And finally, it will be interesting what is available for JDG. May be similar to the Melbourne Storm situation, and he ends up being offered alot less than he expects.

How is that working out now and in the last 3 years , I”ll say it again. Dopey ruckman with little footy smarts are not worth that coin , they come a dime a dozen , he gives literally no bang for buck , midfielders and ruckman in general poll well in Brownlows as they are in the umpires main view of focus. I don’t rate the Brownlow like I don’t rate Bubble boy

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Always apprehensive about long-term contracts, but this is good news.

Very likely Darcy will be a future captain of the club.

 

[loki04]

Noone talks about it, but heaps of players would have been better off financially if they signed a two then a three year deal when peaking rather than locking in the security. Basically every good player who signed a long term deal and maintained their form. For a player, long term deals are expensive insurance. Clubs are in the position of the insurance company and should be able to manage their risk to win in the long run, with long term contracts.

How could Grundy fair better then 7 years at 950k?
vs
2 years at 1 mil, 3 years at 650-700, 2 years at 350k…

The short contracts will put him at a loss, he is currently imo only a 650 to 700k player and will likely decline as years pass not get better, many young rucks imo are looking his match now.

 

[Think Goodly]

Great news I reckon - he is an out and out star and his leadership potential is just starting to be tapped

 

[Forethought]

Do the numbers include incentives? Or are they a guaranteed $900k pa?

Most big longterm contracts have a min Guaranteed amount, this normally about 80% of the stated figure. Incentives are normally part of the all up contract that the AFL requires all clubs to supply for their TPP. This is done before the start of the season. Your total list payments with incentives offered can’t be above the TPP. Most incentives up and above are paid out of the advertising allocation that’s not TPP.
Also longterm injuries depending on the player are dealt with here. For example say an injury takes you out for the year your likely payment will be reduced $200-300k on a contract this size.
If the above happens with longterm injuries and the club has an extra $200-400k in their TPP at the end of the year, they normally will pay forward a minor -mid level players x 4 at say $50k each in this year to give them controlled space in next years cap. Often these young or mid year players want advanced money for house purchases.

 

[sr36]

How could Grundy fair better then 7 years at 950k?
vs
2 years at 1 mil, 3 years at 650-700, 2 years at 350k…

The short contracts will put him at a loss, he is currently imo only a 650 to 700k player and will likely decline as years pass not get better, many young rucks imo are looking his match now.

That's with part of it in hindsight.

When the contract was signed the potential risk for the club of keeping him on multiple contracts would have been calculated at something like:

2 years at $1.1 million. 3 years at $1.1 mil. 2 years at $800k.

We're guessing on all the figures - including what Grundy is actually paid.

 

[Forethought]

I cant think of a long term deal where the player has lost out....certainly not to the level that the club has lost out

Agree but only one comes to mind. Alister Lynch

 

[Rorzza]

Great news! Will be a pie for life like Grundy, only one key signature to go. Hopefully, De Goo signs long term too!

 

[Markfs]

Noone talks about it, but heaps of players would have been better off financially if they signed a two then a three year deal when peaking rather than locking in the security. Basically every good player who signed a long term deal and maintained their form. For a player, long term deals are expensive insurance. Clubs are in the position of the insurance company and should be able to manage their risk to win in the long run, with long term contracts.

i'm not sure if i agree with you. When teams lose out, they lose out big time.

THe other thing is that players sign contracts and then renegotiate..... lets say one of the newbies that just signed a contract in the last few days. And if they have a breakout season, they renegotiate....

i dont do much research on the actual figures, but it seems to me that Mihocek was underpaid in the first few years.

I can honestly say that if the browns are being paid more than the bare basic collective agreement rates, then why??? And that would go for a few other players. I can understand that these guys were like a contract for their own security and I understand how a lack of a contract might impact on them, but in a pure business sense, I would be paying the browns match day money.

 

[Markfs]

Agree but only one comes to mind. Alister Lynch

lynch lost out by signing a 10 year deal? He was paid for years that he didnt play...