Dawes V Fraser

[dingo_1983]

I just had a heated conversation with a co-worker regarding Chris Dawes & Josh Fraser.

He is convinced that Chris Dawes needs to be dropped & Fraser to come into the side because of these reasons:

1. Better mark - contested & uncontested
2. more reliable kick for goal
3. Will kick more goals.

I argue that Dawes is better at all of these points, plus he can jump, chase & tackle.

The basis of his arguement was around the fact that Collingwood have made many finals while Fraser was rucking solo & that Fraser has been loyal to the club & that he could have gone to another club many times throughout his career.

What does everyone think?

 

[collingwood1992]

you are spot on, dawes is far better in all of those areas, is younger and will actually go 100%

 

[robertg22]

When was the last time your co-worker actually watched a game of football, just curious?

 

[Zahki]

Uhhhh...

With those types it's usually best to just nod your head and agree while you take note of what an idiot they are. Dawes is way ahead of Fraser. He thinks Fraser is a better contested mark than Dawes? Christ almighty.

 

[lozza63]

Dingo, sadly Fraser, has missed some vital games in finals.
Most notably, IMO, the '07 prelim - back spasms IIRC - sigh!

Now the game has passed him by, Dawes is one of our Beast enforcers that, while being quick and agile, is great in the contested situation - especially at locking the ball in our forward line. Kicks quite well for goal and has really developed this year.

Josh on the other hand is nearing the end of a very solid career - but leave it to the young gun I say.

 

[dingo_1983]

I got to the point where I started to doubt myself & Dawes' worth in the side.

Glad to be validated by my fellow sane Pies supporters. Fingers crossed he kicks a bag so I can start Monday morning on a high!!!!

 

[daics_35]

Does you co worker even go for the Pies, Fraiser cant mark for shit this year he has been dropping sitters all the time and Dawes kicks most of his set shots. I wouldnt even compare the two anymore, Dawes is miles ahead of him now.

 

[joxstrap]

Pretty simple. Dawes must make way for Fraser.

Pick 1 is a better pick than pick 28.
Fraser has more career goals and marks.
Fraser has more finals experience.
Fraser is a better backup ruck.

 

[Keele]

Does you co worker even go for the Pies, Fraiser cant mark for shit this year he has been dropping sitters all the time and Dawes kicks most of his set shots. I wouldnt even compare the two anymore, Dawes is miles ahead of him now.

Fraser is not a full forward and we are talking about two different types of players.

Not sure why Dawes was ever put into the L Brown debate ring as well and at the moment it is Leroy keeping Fraser out, not Dawes

Dawes will improve but at present is limited in the position he plays in the team thus far.

 

[Zahki]

Swan will make way for Corrie as well. He's been magnificently managed through the season, having been rested all 20 games, no doubt he'll be fit and firing and ready to rip the finals apart.

 

[Histrionics]

I just had a heated conversation with a co-worker regarding Chris Dawes & Josh Fraser.

He is convinced that Chris Dawes needs to be dropped & Fraser to come into the side because of these reasons:

1. Better mark - contested & uncontested
2. more reliable kick for goal
3. Will kick more goals.

I argue that Dawes is better at all of these points, plus he can jump, chase & tackle.

The basis of his arguement was around the fact that Collingwood have made many finals while Fraser was rucking solo & that Fraser has been loyal to the club & that he could have gone to another club many times throughout his career.

What does everyone think?

LOL.

Your mate is trollin' brah.

 

[mattys123]

Swan will make way for Corrie as well. He's been magnificently managed through the season, having been rested all 20 games, no doubt he'll be fit and firing and ready to rip the finals apart.

I heard Luke Ball will make way for Ryan Cook too, as Cook has been "developed" all year in the VFL, just so he can take over from the lacklustre Ball in September.

Fraser for Dawes, lol, that's a good one. Maybe for one week, just to give Dawes knee a rest, but for more then that, **** NO.

 

[joxstrap]

Swan will make way for Corrie as well. He's been magnificently managed through the season, having been rested all 20 games, no doubt he'll be fit and firing and ready to rip the finals apart.

I agree, but technically it will need to be more than one player making way. Corrie's Paddock works best with about 14 on the field. Swan, Didak, Pendlebury and Jolly would be the four most likely to miss imo. Old Spice would be able to expand more on Corrie's Paddock.

 

[hotpieinoven]

Swan will make way for Corrie as well. He's been magnificently managed through the season, having been rested all 20 games, no doubt he'll be fit and firing and ready to rip the finals apart.

agreed i like the sound of a corrie brownlow / pies gf

 

[Quicky]

Oh man, where to start, I think i'll leave at your mate is wrong.

That and there's no room for sentimentality when picking a finals side.

 

[Zahki]

I agree, but technically it will need to be more than one player making way. Corrie's Paddock works best with about 14 on the field. Swan, Didak, Pendlebury and Jolly would be the four most likely to miss imo. Old Spice would be able to expand more on Corrie's Paddock.

Hm, interesting, but be careful about posting this info, you never know who is reading it, no doubt the Bulldogs will be looking at ways to counter Corries Paddock from tommorrow.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Frasier in for Dawes. Adds more radio experience, a psychiatry degree, and better one-liners.

 

[notorious_zhang]

The thing I LOVE about Dawes, is his second efforts.

Aside from what a traditional KPF does, he runs, chases and tackles. His ability to get a ball off the ground is more superior than other KPF and his handballs in tight situations is also good.

That and the fact that he is our future.

 

[Thommo 42]

Just put him on your list of people not to talk to about football in the future.

My list is huge these days, but I live in Brisbane!

 

[ralu]

Frasier in for Dawes. Adds more radio experience, a psychiatry degree, and better one-liners.

Haha golden. I really enjoyed that! what a great show, should still be on the box!

Having watched the majority of Josh Fraser's career matches, I can honestly say that he is one of the worst set shot goal kickers we have had. I have always rated him fairly highly, but he certainly cannot kick set shots.

I believe that Lockyer is the best set shot I have seen, while Fraser and Cloke are the worst.

 

[Bay Pie]

Dawes has kicked 22 goals 9 behinds from set shots.

Dawes rarely gets outmarked. Generally at least causes a spillage.

The thing about idiots like your mate, is they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

[Stripes B and W]

Josh for Dawes , as we have all said not going to happen.
For whats its worth, IMO Dawes has shown great improvement, super appetite for the contest. Rarely outmarked, would like him to hold a couple more contested marks. His kicking for goal, while its mechanical its pretty effective, which shows he has worked very hard on it.

No stand out weakness, just a general improvement that will come through games, experience and time. DO agree with Matty, its possible he will miss to rest the knee.....

LAst word on Josh, no doubt a pretty solid career, deserving of 200 at our club. One thing i've always thought of Josh's game that you would mark him down on is his marking. Any body pressure and he is unlikely to hold the mark.... More recently i have thought his field kicking, to a short target has been real rainbow stuff, loopy and slow through the air putting the receiver seriously under the pump...Hope he get the 200 by round 22 and i'll be there to applaud him on and off the ground..

 

[Swooop]

Oh man, where to start, I think i'll leave at your mate is wrong.

That and there's no room for sentimentality when picking a finals side.

So true.

I don't think there should be sentimentality in picking any side that runs onto the park.

If Fraser is gifted his 200th, when he clearly knows it's a gift and not deserved, then I think that it will be a very uneasy end to his time at CFC.

I think he'd prefer 199 real games, than 200 when clearly the 200th was played as a gamble, that everyone hoped wouldn't bring our finals momentum undone.( esp if it does in some way, even in hindsight, drop our momentum)

Pardon the sports jump, but when Ponting delayed his declaration to give Hodge his 200 v Sth Africa, it probably cost us the win. Gave a lot of people a bad taste re that 200.

Think Hodge would have fonder memories of 150no that engineered a test win.

Fraser clearly does not deserve to be in the team atm.

He should play on next year as depth anyway, and with an injury here or there, will get it on merit.

 

[Somebody]

So true.

I don't think there should be sentimentality in picking any side that runs onto the park.

If Fraser is gifted his 200th, when he clearly knows it's a gift and not deserved, then I think that it will be a very uneasy end to his time at CFC.

I think he'd prefer 199 real games, than 200 when clearly the 200th was played as a gamble, that everyone hoped wouldn't bring our finals momentum undone.( esp if it does in some way, even in hindsight, drop our momentum)

Pardon the sports jump, but when Ponting delayed his declaration to give Hodge his 200 v Sth Africa, it probably cost us the win. Gave a lot of people a bad taste re that 200.

Think Hodge would have fonder memories of 150no that engineered a test win.

Fraser clearly does not deserve to be in the team atm.

He should play on next year as depth anyway, and with an injury here or there, will get it on merit.

Wouldn't really be a gift, since either Josh or Woods (preferably both if possible) need at least one game b4 the finals to get them ready as depth rucks just in case.

As far as Josh replacing Dawes, Dawes is a gorilla forward (along with leeroy), Josh more of a stick insect forward. Not really interchangeable.

 

[Swooop]

Haha golden. I really enjoyed that! what a great show, should still be on the box!

Having watched the majority of Josh Fraser's career matches, I can honestly say that he is one of the worst set shot goal kickers we have had. I have always rated him fairly highly, but he certainly cannot kick set shots.

I believe that Lockyer is the best set shot I have seen, while Fraser and Cloke are the worst.

I always find it funny that different people can watch the same thing and come out with completely opposite views!

Not saying you are wrong, but that highlighted bit, but I would have said;

"I can honestly say he is one of the best set shot goal kickers we have had. I always rated him pretty lowly, but he certainly can kick set shots"

Completely agree with Tarks.