Player Watch Dayne Beams

[TheGreatGrundy]

And so it goes, go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are.

Just hang in a bit longer and all will be revealed. Only the truth, and a conclusion to this saga, will separate the real from the fake.

Anything I feel about Beams is based on memories of his first exit from Collingwood. I have no view on his recent history, other than the observation that a lot of people seem to know much more about this situation than me. Though I have no firm knowledge that he has transgressed, I just don't see this ending well for Beams.

But I can't say I like what I know of him. I would like him or events to give me some reason to support him as you do.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

And so it goes, go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are.

Joe Jackson is a legend, Beams ain't mate.

 

[Kirby]

Evidence? This isn’t a movie, people aren’t wearing wires in personal conversations with friends.

Username before banned? I’ve read the site for years and never really posted, started an account last year. Does every poster need to have an account that dates back years and years?
I think we’ve had the same president at the club for far too long with a number of misses piling up in the last few years. I think he was an amazing president for a long period of time but is now past it, I also think the problems of late keep getting swept under the rug. Is there this the ‘agenda’ you refer to?

So, lack the balls to just say you made it up?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Question is how long are we stuck with his wages in our salary cap..?

Less than a week if rumours are true

 

[Gone Critical]

Sorry mate but in the world outside the AFL, somebody would not be able to not work for 4 years and get paid. In any case he is very involved in other activities which are actually earning him a crust.

I think you will find he is honouring the terms of his contract. If he is assessed by the people looking after his mental health as not fit to participate in training currently, and we on this board are not privy to his health details, the he will clearly be okay.

In the outside world if you had a 4 year contract that covered you in these areas you would be also paid out for those 4 years. Truth is AFL players are employed in a very different fashion to most people in a 9-5 type job where there isn’t a massive skill set and competition involved in getting that contract.

 

[AndrewShawble]

So, lack the balls to just say you made it up?

Believe/don’t believe what you like, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[jmac70]

I like sticky date pudding.

 

[Good Horse]

I like sticky date pudding.

I like sticky date.

 

[deltablues]

I think you will find he is honouring the terms of his contract. If he is assessed by the people looking after his mental health as not fit to participate in training currently, and we on this board are not privy to his health details, the he will clearly be okay.

In the outside world if you had a 4 year contract that covered you in these areas you would be also paid out for those 4 years. Truth is AFL players are employed in a very different fashion to most people in a 9-5 type job where there isn’t a massive skill set and competition involved in getting that contract.

Re the emboldened - not so fast, bud. It depends on the express terms of the contract. And there are also implied conditions.

But as a fan, my view is that Collingwood is/should not be a sheltered workshop for inadequate personalities. Perform or get fired.

This guy is gaming [pun intended] the system.

 

[sideswipe]

Re the emboldened - not so fast, bud. It depends on the express terms of the contract. And there are also implied conditions.

But as a fan, my view is that Collingwood is/should not be a sheltered workshop for inadequate personalities. Perform or get fired.

This guy is gaming [pun intended] the system.

Leaving Beams the person/player aside, would you feel the same way about someone with say a chronic knee injury which is career-ending (but the player does all his rehab), versus a career ended by mental health issues (where the player follows advice from his care team)?

 

[TradeDraft]

Agree. He's holding the club to ransom.

or Club to Soft to Act

 

[deltablues]

Leaving Beams the person/player aside, would you feel the same way about someone with say a chronic knee injury which is career-ending (but the player does all his rehab), versus a career ended by mental health issues (where the player follows advice from his care team)?

Inapposite analogy.

My main point (not limited to a sporting context) is the difference between taking personal responsibility in dealing with the usual vicissitudes, imperfections and frailties which are part and parcel of conducting our lives in that short and brutal interval between birth and death - and the increasing tendency of seeking to avoid such personal responsibility under the guise of some medical/psychological get-out-of-jail card.

 

[jackcass]

One could just as easily make a post about the need for Tom Lynch, who arguably we cooled our interest on in favour of Dayne Beams.

Positionally speaking we needed a key forward more than we needed an extra midfielder.

In 2019 we missed Mason Cox far more than we missed Dayne Beams, because we had no depth to cover Cox and plenty to cover Beams.

Que?

By "cooled our interest" do you mean that Lynch had already decided to go to Richmond because we were not even in the same ballpark in terms of salary offer so we then turned our attention to Beams?

EDIT: What Apex said....

 

[jackcass]

Regardless of his form we needed Cox more than Beams due to the lack of available depth options. Mihoceks form dropped away dramatically after Cox went down. Even in poor form he was structurally crucial.

Really? Are you judging his form post Cox purely on his PF performance? Other than that game, I don't think there was much drop off at all. For example, he had 2 of his 4 goal games for the season in those 5 games.

 

[jackcass]

At some point here the club has to hold him accountable for whether or not he's honouring the terms of his contract. Mental illness or not, there should be a time limit here.

That would actually be guided by medical opinion.

 

[jackcass]

Sorry mate but in the world outside the AFL, somebody would not be able to not work for 4 years and get paid. In any case he is very involved in other activities which are actually earning him a crust.

Workcover will tell you differently. There are laws that govern this sort of thing you realise.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Really? Are you judging his form post Cox purely on his PF performance? Other than that game, I don't think there was much drop off at all. For example, he had 2 of his 4 goal games for the season in those 5 games.

He also had three of his seven 0 goal games in that period including both finals

Sure he scored his bags against two of the weaker teams. Essendon and Melbourne .

No doubt in my mind that mihocek being forced into a key position in the absence of Cox weakened our structure

 

[surfer1]

Inapposite analogy.

My main point (not limited to a sporting context) is the difference between taking personal responsibility in dealing with the usual vicissitudes, imperfections and frailties which are part and parcel of conducting our lives in that short and brutal interval between birth and death - and the increasing tendency of seeking to avoid such personal responsibility under the guise of some medical/psychological get-out-of-jail card.

Heck of a opinion

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Heck of a opinion

I gave it a like simply because it was such a delight to read.

 

[sideswipe]

Inapposite analogy.

My main point (not limited to a sporting context) is the difference between taking personal responsibility in dealing with the usual vicissitudes, imperfections and frailties which are part and parcel of conducting our lives in that short and brutal interval between birth and death - and the increasing tendency of seeking to avoid such personal responsibility under the guise of some medical/psychological get-out-of-jail card.

Ah well, I guess we all see things differently. To me, it would be crazy (see!) for a player to "game the system" or "avoid personal responsibility" by somehow claiming (faking?) a mental health issue just so he could keep getting paid. It would surely be easier to turn up, train and play, meeting one's contractual obligations. For elite players, training and playing on would seem easier than stepping away from a club and dealing with all the difficulties and stigma of mental illness.

You know, things like being accused of gaming a system? Wouldn't it be easier just to play on, if one was capable of doing so?

 

[Go Pies!!!!!]

or Club to Soft to Act

Club is in a no win situation, if they force the issue then they will be accused of being insensitive to his Mental Health issues.

 

[jackcass]

He also had three of his seven 0 goal games in that period including both finals

Sure he scored his bags against two of the weaker teams. Essendon and Melbourne .

No doubt in my mind that mihocek being forced into a key position in the absence of Cox weakened our structure

Just don't see it. Excluding the PF where he had a mare (and had Reid in the Cox role), he averaged about 0.8 possessions less a game, about 0.6 less marks a game while maintaining his CM average, 0.5 goals a game more. Rest of his stats relatively consistent with the remainder of the season. Maybe it was your use of "dramatically" that is the issue. Marginal at best.

 

[Help My Club]

Club is in a no win situation, if they force the issue then they will be accused of being insensitive to his Mental Health issues.

Totally agree of course the club should not have put itself in this position in the first place.

 

[Scodog10]

Ah well, I guess we all see things differently. To me, it would be crazy (see!) for a player to "game the system" or "avoid personal responsibility" by somehow claiming (faking?) a mental health issue just so he could keep getting paid. It would surely be easier to turn up, train and play, meeting one's contractual obligations. For elite players, training and playing on would seem easier than stepping away from a club and dealing with all the difficulties and stigma of mental illness.

You know, things like being accused of gaming a system? Wouldn't it be easier just to play on, if one was capable of doing so?

Thrashing this out a little further. Wouldn’t the player need to first be welcome at the club in order to do that?

IMO, there exists a potential outcome where you’re both right. Beams is willing to play on, but he’s not welcome at the club and in order to withhold that information from the general public we have an individual gaming the system...

It’s also worth remembering we have a precedent at our club of players exploiting the system from Beams first stint. Players were self reporting illicit substance use to avoid strikes. Coincidentally it was during a period where Beams has a 16 week quad injury

 

[wicksy]

Can he just retire and f@#$ off already.
If Steele can't stand the bloke, i'm not sure why we should.