Autopsy Deja Voodoo - Clawed at the Cattery

[rustycrate]

I think we just need to chill with the bravado in general. And by we, I mean the players. I get that they're a young group but it feels like we have a lot of players who are lippy, who love to deal in argy bargy, who love to carry on like pork chops when they celebrate (not referring specifically to Papley here, despite him becoming synonymous with celebrations.)

But then when the game's not on our terms, where are those players? Lip service and "character" can't win you games alone. There's gotta be enough guys putting their heads down and bums up working to get us the win. I don't think we have enough of these players.

I disagree. If we are winning. Lets rub it in. Go to town.

 

[caesar88]

I disagree. If we are winning. Lets rub it in. Go to town.

That's the problem though. They lap it up when they're winning because they have their egos fed. The kids are so "exciting"; the celebrations "lift the team"; players x, y and z give their teammates a "spark." Then when they come up against an immovable object that doesn't give a shite how exciting, team-lifting or spark-providing they are, they go into their shells, and resort to faux toughness instead of actual, disciplined toughness. This is why our losses these days are becoming increasingly dishonourable, as opposed to say 2019/2020, when at least our losses were commendable. I think the players need to be reminded that stardom and victory is earned, it's not a right.

 

[rustycrate]

That's the problem though. They lap it up when they're winning because they have their egos fed. The kids are so "exciting"; the celebrations "lift the team"; players x, y and z give their teammates a "spark." Then when they come up against an immovable object that doesn't give a shite how exciting, team-lifting or spark-providing they are, they go into their shells, and resort to faux toughness instead of actual, disciplined toughness. This is why our losses these days are becoming increasingly dishonourable, as opposed to say 2019/2020, when at least our losses were commendable. I think the players need to be reminded that stardom and victory is earned, it's not a right.

I don't think celebrating after a win is somehow responsible for us losing by record margins.
Lack of talls. Best players out. Reshuffle positions. Players playing out of position. Younger players in. They are more reasons.
Let the boys celebrate when we are going well. Bring it on.

 

[caesar88]

I don't think celebrating after a win is somehow responsible for us losing by record margins.
Lack of talls. Best players out. Reshuffle positions. Players playing out of position. Younger players in. They are more reasons.
Let the boys celebrate when we are going well. Bring it on.

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. The celebrations are just one part of the collective problem which I think is players getting ahead of themselves and trying to play and do things like they would in a dead rubber in games that simply require a lot more hard work and focus.

 

[The King!]

I don't think celebrating after a win is somehow responsible for us losing by record margins.
Lack of talls. Best players out. Reshuffle positions. Players playing out of position. Younger players in. They are more reasons.
Let the boys celebrate when we are going well. Bring it on.

After a win and during a win are different things though


our best players out? , 8 of our Top 10 best and fairest from last year played Saturday

 

[Nuggetz]

Geelong are our worst match up, followed by Melb & Carlton imo. Not only are Geelong a more physically dominant team but we struggle to limit the speed of their ball movement by hand or foot. We struggle against big bodied teams but Geelong have the added strength of fast skilful ball movement. I don't think Melb nor Carlton are as skilful nor quick as Geelong with ball movement.

I'm confident in beating all other teams apart from those 3. I actually only see Dees challenging Geelong at their best.

 

[Nuggetz]

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. The celebrations are just one part of the collective problem which I think is players getting ahead of themselves and trying to play and do things like they would in a dead rubber in games that simply require a lot more hard work and focus.

I don't mind their celebrating if they also can win the hard ball & do all the hard stuff when we're under the pump.

 

[caesar88]

I don't mind their celebrating if they also can win the hard ball & do all the hard stuff when we're under the pump.

Absolutely. Unfortunately that ain't happening for a lot of them.

 

[Nuggetz]

Coaches need to have a look at themselves before looking at the players. Shocking tactics with our midfield.

I'm not that displeased with Ladhams performance, he was comfortably winning the hitouts but Cats mids were reacting to it better than our mids. The ruck/mid synergy will take time. He's played less than 20 games for us & imo improved his ruck craft during that time which is the main reason why we've brought him to our club.

 

[The King!]

what do people think of Papley starting every quarter at the centre bounce?

 

[caesar88]

what do people think of Papley starting every quarter at the centre bounce?

 

[Gimmeafree]

what do people think of Papley starting every quarter at the centre bounce?

Well atm i trust him more than our midfield to extract the ball.

 

[RubbaDuck]

I’m sure all the sports psychologists say that you have to review it and then and try to put it behind you, and that what you are supposed to say when asked questions as a leader / coach is that it is all behind you and you are focused on the next game, focusing on the moment and all that. That’s why the swans have said these things.

I call BS.

Speak to any retired player who has lost a grand final, even if they have won many many other grand finals, and even if the loss was decades ago - they still say it hurts, and not a little, a lot. It hurts more than any GF wins feel good. It never leaves them.

It seems like the swans spend so much time doing the ‘right’ things, that they don’t do the human things. It’s a tribal f**king contact sport, every player in the team will be smarting at their GF performance or smarting that they weren’t selected and the crap effort we put out. Why not let some f**king anger out? Why not let yourself go out there with a point to prove? Why not go at there to at least make them earn the humiliation they gave you in the GF, and make sure they know that you will never lie down again?

We were meek as mice.

I hate to say it, but I think we are more worried about what our politically correct sponsors and upty dupty Eastern Suburbs fans will think, than on winning. It has seeped into our culture and other teams know we are soft.

What team fears playing us? What team knows that the day after playing us they are going to feel it? What team knows that if they beat us, they are going to feel it the next time around? No team, that’s who.

Duncan was laughing at one of our players after they scored a goal against him for god’s sakes. And I am sure he is still laughing now.

Sports psychologists would probably have insisted that players come to terms with the loss and have the chance to process the personal impact of the GF loss before moving on. I suspect the Swans ignored the psycholgists and moved on too soon. The hurry to do so has left a form of trauma. Anger may feel momentarily good, to lash out, but it rarely achieves much. Ask Ladhams.

Our guys are professional sportsmen. They will have effective coping strategies but my concern is they simply did not pursue them long enough.

I'm not sure why you hold the views of Eastern Suburbs fans and our sponsors responsible. The fans I know from the Eastern Suburbs are just as passionate for their club as anyone else, they just don't feel the need to thump anyone in anger. Developing psychological tools to allow us to deal with trauma, to care for others, even those we don't know, is not only the right thing to do but it's also the human thing to do. It's one of the traits that separates us from apes.

Who cares if Duncan is laughing. We can get past the trauma of the GF loss without having to lash out at him. I don't have to be from the Eastern Suburbs to know that

 

[RubbaDuck]

I think we just need to chill with the bravado in general. And by we, I mean the players. I get that they're a young group but it feels like we have a lot of players who are lippy, who love to deal in argy bargy, who love to carry on like pork chops when they celebrate (not referring specifically to Papley here, despite him becoming synonymous with celebrations.)

But then when the game's not on our terms, where are those players? Lip service and "character" can't win you games alone. There's gotta be enough guys putting their heads down and bums up working to get us the win. I don't think we have enough of these players.

Couldn't agree more. I don't remember any of the champions of the club flying off the handle. They were quick to remonstrate if they saw one of the young pups getting badly treated but otherwise, they let their footy do the talking.

 

[RubbaDuck]

Absolutely. Unfortunately that ain't happening for a lot of them.

A large part of Paps' celebration is aimed at getting his teammates inspired and Swans fans involved. If he just started lipping the opposition I'd be concerned

 

[RubbaDuck]

Coaches need to have a look at themselves before looking at the players. Shocking tactics with our midfield.

I'm not that displeased with Ladhams performance, he was comfortably winning the hitouts but Cats mids were reacting to it better than our mids. The ruck/mid synergy will take time. He's played less than 20 games for us & imo improved his ruck craft during that time which is the main reason why we've brought him to our club.

I want to see more 2nd efforts from Ladhams. Once the tap has been made he needs to become a hard-ball winning midfielder. His decision making needs to be a lot sharper, his hands need to be a lot cleaner, his tackling needs to be more effective and he needs to lower his eyes going forward. Sam Reid ought to be coaching him, an under-sized ruckman who times his leap perfectly and is quick and strong below his knees when the ball hits the deck. Reid would never have let Aliir in to spoil Ollie's goal against Port. Reid would have thrown his big body into contests like a wrecking ball. He would have used smart taps to space to avoid being tackled. He would not have allowed a player to break through a tackle and run away from him. He would not have allowed another player to mark against him.

Ladhams lacks footy IQ more than anything else.

 

[RubbaDuck]

what do people think of Papley starting every quarter at the centre bounce?

I like where your going with this but I'd rather see Paps injected into the centre bounce when we need to kick off some momentum. That may be at the start of a quarter. Heeney is another who can be a wild card, depending on the opposition's midfield line up

 

[Superstar swan]

We need a big bodied mid. They're out there , just need to find them.

Setterfield has been immense for the beers and they got him at a bargain price

 

[anotherletdown]

Ur not a true fan if you dont watch the replay

Happily, I'll forever be guilty as charged on that count

Complete waste of time. No one should need reminding that we are headed for mid table mediocrity this year.

I'm just about ready to live in the trade and draft thread after that.

 

[anotherletdown]

I only just stepped into this thread but I'm going to presume the 10 or so pages I'm skipping were gold.

In the preview I think it showed we were giving up 4cm, 4 or 5kgs and 4 years on average per player. Weight and years of experience will come, height will only come through trading or drafting.

Been screaming for KPD and a midfield bull for years, hopefully now the club will listen to the blatantly obvious. This should be a turning point.

 

[bloodsbigot]

I had the benefit of not watching the game. So I'll make a few points which I feel aren't clouded by raw emotion:

1) Geelong would have been 2-4 for the season had they lost. They needed the win more.
2) We had our entire backline out. Sorry, but losing 3 of our best defenders and having no talls is a big deal. I'm still astounded we beat the tigers to be perfectly honest.
3) Geelong generally seem to match-up well on us. They sensed our weakness and they made us look way worse than we actually are. Good on them.
4) It's round 6. I'll reserve judgement about our chances until mid-season games.
5) Round 2 scores last year:

Anyone else think Geelong were going to win the flag last year early in the season? I sure didn't.

I tipped we'd get beaten easily knowing the facts above (Just didn't think it'd be by THAT much). And you know what? That's fine. It's not a final. We'll lick our wounds, and we'll beat GWS this week. And we'll beat Collingwood the week after.

Also, who says we NEED to beat Geelong to win the Grand Final? Adelaide killed us every time in 2005-2006 and we didn't even need to face them in the end both years. That's the benefit of rock, paper, scissors. All we need is another team like Melbourne to knock them off.

Season ain't over yet.

 

[bloodsbigot]

We need a big bodied mid. They're out there , just need to find them.

Setterfield has been immense for the beers and they got him at a bargain price

Good thing is we'll have money come trade time. So hopefully Buddy's departure will give us the benefit of filling a few holes.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I do. Too many times we've seen umpires step in to change the game's momentum. It's a stat that isn't recorded but frees early or at crucial moments cannot be offset by a bunch of junk frees late. Maybe it happens to other teams too and I only notice it against us, but we've been shafted by the AFL so many times that I'm loathe to trust them.

If we assume umpires are human then we have to assume they're also fans of one club. I wonder how many are Sydney Swans supporters?

The simple fact is that Aussie Rules is an incredibly difficult game to officiate.

I think the AFL could get off their arses and open the chequebook and pay umpires a proper wage but it’s not going to solve everything.

I don’t know what the answer is and 2016 still infuriates me.

 

[TheMase]

what do people think of Papley starting every quarter at the centre bounce?

I’ve always been a fan of Papleys appearances at centre bounces. He reads the drop of the ball probably better than anyone on our list.

 

[RUNVS]

We need a big bodied mid. They're out there , just need to find them.

Setterfield has been immense for the beers and they got him at a bargain price

We had several options to draft big bodied midfielders in last years draft. We went with a small forward.