List Mgmt. Delisted Free Agents - who should we be targeting?

[Davo23]

So that is one coked up society aye!

Yep, it’s everywhere: one of my staff has coke on her desk all day in full view of everybody.

It’s “No Sugar” though.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Well, if that's the path the club were to voluntarily go down then I will return my membership. I'd like to think they have some standards where they draw a line at drugs.

They are all on the sniff mate. Especially right now in the off season. The cleanskins are very, very strongly in the minority.

Its the reality.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Yep, it’s everywhere: one of my staff has coke on her desk all day in full view of everybody.

It’s “No Sugar” though.

Coke, no sugar

People actually believe this!

 

[burner1]

Jake Stein delisted by GWS today, apparently they intend to redraft as a rookie. He played games in the back half of the season for the Giants, seems a bit off they're delisting/re-rookieing him.

May be GWS trying to be cute with list spots / points to match on green. We should be having a look. While there appears to be a bit of an unwritten rule that you’d don’t take players who are being dropped to rookie list due to serious injury I don’t think the same applies for just list management decisions. Hawks could do worse if looking for some developing talls on the cheap.

 

[Harry Yorkie]

Well, if that's the path the club were to voluntarily go down then I will return my membership. I'd like to think they have some standards where they draw a line at drugs.

Naivety is the state of being naïve, that is to say, having or showing a lack of experience, or understanding sophistication, often in a context where one neglects pragmatism in favor of moral idealism.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

When I see someone who doesn’t know the difference between illicit drugs and PED’s.

Particularly the difference between 1 person having some coke, and a club orchestrated doping program.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Illicit drugs are also PED - hence why they are tested for and banned. Put someone on ice and see how they react. Murray was suspended for cocaine use not for PED. Why would he be suspended if it doesn't affect your performance - it would just be a matter for the police and have no relevance in sports drug testing.

That is not why they are tested for at all.

There’s so much for you to understand about why they test for illicit drugs and markers....and this is not the thread for it.

 

[Davo23]

Illicit drugs are also PED - hence why they are tested for and banned. Put someone on ice and see how they react. Murray was suspended for cocaine use not for PED. Coke, ice etc is banned just as peptides are by WADA and ASADA. Why would he be suspended if it doesn't affect your performance - it would just be a matter for the police and have no relevance in sports drug testing.

Different suspensions for different drugs.
PED’s enhance performance, they are used by cheats to improve themselves physically, they enhance endurance, muscle size, speed, recovery from injuries, etc.

Illicit or recreational drugs don’t do that.

And the penalties are different.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Different suspensions for different drugs.
PED’s enhance performance, they are used by cheats to improve themselves physically, they enhance endurance, muscle size, speed, recovery from injuries, etc.

Illicit or recreational drugs don’t do that.

And the penalties are different.

Penalties are the same from WADA. Street drugs are primarily banned on match day but still banned. Different PEDs get different treatments based on the circumstances of their used.

 

[Carl Spackler]

That is not why they are tested for at all.

There’s so much for you to understand about why they test for illicit drugs and markers....and this is not the thread for it.

There's a bit of learning for everyone.

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/wada_2020_english_prohibited_list_0.pdf

Cocaine is an S6 class prohibited substance as is meth. Heroin as an S7 narcotic. Marijuana as an S8.

I realise you're splitting hairs and defining the testing you mean to be out of competition testing but you're arguing comprehensively.

The point regarding Essendon stands. If the club (and supporters) are willing to turn their heads and ignore rampant drug use, sweeping it under the carpet, then they are little different than Essendon.

I know it's quite popular here to say that 80%+ of footy players are drug taking rock stars, but either Aussies are mindless drug-freaks or the sexy, cool appeal of a drug use culture gets to the better of the judgement of the posters here. I don't know about here, but comprehensive studies in the States on the use of drugs in professional sport paints a very different picture from the fawning picture painted on these boards.

Drug abuse in athletes

Drug abuse occurs in all sports and at most levels of competition. Athletic life may lead to drug abuse for a number of reasons, including for performance enhancement, to self-treat otherwise untreated mental illness, and to deal with stressors, such ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

So just about all of the players in the AFL are doing coke, ice, weed or something else now?

Firstly, I'm talking about coke, I dont think any of them would be using ice or weed, the side affect would **** with an elite athlete. Coke clears your system much quicker, especially the high end coke that is available to elite athletes with money to burn and countless fans willing to party with them.

Out of 39 players currently on our list, over 30 of them are now doing some form of substance abuse according to you?

No idea of the numbers, but extrapolating from experience it wouldn't be far off. I've seen a few of our boys at events (racedays and the like) and they have definitely been on the chin chin. In my line of work, I've been involved with a couple of afl players' weddings and it was rife there too, and blatant. I also personally am acquainted with a handful of ex players and they all say the same.

The three strikes rule should be abolished and a ten week suspension for a first strike. Stop mollycoddling junkies under the guise of mental health.

Oh come on dude, blasting some blow on a night out doesn't make one a 'junkie', you are showing just how naive you really are here. Willingly or not.

Judging from the response to my earlier comment, including by a moderator, it is widely accepted as being OK and par for the course and it just needs to be covered up.

Accepting reality doesn't equal tacit approval.

If that is the case, why was everyone so keen to post comments on the Essendon saga? What's the difference? Is it just because we hate Essendon? We certainly can't take any stand on moral high ground if we accept it amongst our own. How many of our premierships have an asterisk next to it?

Are we all supposed to be one big hive mind are we?! Other Hawks fans dont speak for me and I dont speak for them, this is daft.


Look. I dont mind if you have a different stance towards rec. drugs, but you are coming across as belligerent, close minded and extremely ill informed. You might be struggling to deal with the reality that most afl players (including your beloved hawkers) like to party, but thats your issue to sort out, not anyone elses.

Reality can hurt mate.

 

[flinchfree]

................. I don't know about here, but comprehensive studies in the States on the use of drugs in professional sport paints a very different picture from the fawning picture painted on these boards.

Drug abuse in athletes

Drug abuse occurs in all sports and at most levels of competition. Athletic life may lead to drug abuse for a number of reasons, including for performance enhancement, to self-treat otherwise untreated mental illness, and to deal with stressors, such ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What picture do you feel is getting painted by the studies cited and conclusions or suggested pathways to manage an obvious reality in elite sports across all peoples and nations..?

Living in the States, it'd be hard to describe just how little drugs in sports moves the popular meter.
People here - as in sports loving/tv watching populace don't fawn over it, they just accept it and want to be left to enjoy the games played without being pestered by nuances such as fair play or health. They understand the reality, are happy to fight it at amateur and youth levels, and then simply accept that professionals do what professionals gotta do to make it to the top.
It's a very US thing actually.
I'm an espn junkie and the biggest pushes are to legalize, not demonize, use of a variety of drugs which quite plainly can't be removed from usage by the outraged few.

I think the reality for most, wherever you live, is that drugs of all kinds are part of the same continuum. Addicted to java to start your day, keep you going or have you at your best in that board meeting/seminar/school test? Love how it makes you feel?
What about tobacco? Steadies you, allows you to focus by giving your body shots of chemicals, reduces awkwardness by generating body routines that are self satisfying and distracting..
Alcohol. The real gateway drug. Most peoples first encounters with what getting high is like, with all the associated awesome and downs, and completely societally acceptable.
From there, Mary Jane and the rest are simply steps into further disassociation from what is hard, painful, and emotionally hurtful. And not JUST disassociated, but you actually get to feel aaaawwesome, which seems to come round less and less after the age of 7 or 8. By the time you're in your late teens, unless you're incredibly successful scholastically and socially, life is worrying and tough most of the time and the highs wherever they come are enormous relief to an always stress mind.

As a species we've sought out these escapes since we were monkeys eating over ripened fruits, and plenty of other animals in the kingdom have similarly found narcotic pleasures by chance in the natural world and made them part of their evolutionary everyday existences. Even dolphins are known to play with certain fishes that release toxins in the water under duress, and that when swum through create euphoria and dopeyness in these extraordinary mammals. So the dolphins search out these fish for a trippy date whenever they can.

As the ultimate evolved animal on the planet, with the extraordinary pace and workload and societal agreement we make to study and grind in daily jobs or serve the nation in so many ways, it's hardly extraordinary that we choose to get ourselves out of this mental drain and into a free floating one through drug use. In fact it makes perfect and understandable sense.
There's no puritanical reasoning for not doing it, simply a functional one.
Will you live as long, achieve and experience all you want to, if you willingly compromise your health by taking these drugs?
If you're ok with it, can afford it, do not bring anyone else misery by doing it, I find zero issue with drug use.
Of course most can't manage that balance and that's the difficulty for those who aren't drawn to the practice because they feel no need to escape their dailies....

The world, the States, Oz, the Arab nations, they're all moving to a more tolerant stance and one that accepts that prohibition has emphatically failed, and will always fail because it's in our very nature to seek the escape it provides.

I'd be super interested in what you feel you're hearing that's different to what I've described.

 

[Carl Spackler]

What picture do you feel is getting painted by the studies cited and conclusions or suggested pathways to manage an obvious reality in elite sports across all peoples and nations..?

Living in the States, it'd be hard to describe just how little drugs in sports moves the popular meter.
People here - as in sports loving/tv watching populace don't fawn over it, they just accept it and want to be left to enjoy the games played without being pestered by nuances such as fair play or health. They understand the reality, are happy to fight it at amateur and youth levels, and then simply accept that professionals do what professionals gotta do to make it to the top.
It's a very US thing actually.
I'm an espn junkie and the biggest pushes are to legalize, not demonize, use of a variety of drugs which quite plainly can't be removed from usage by the outraged few.

I think the reality for most, wherever you live, is that drugs of all kinds are part of the same continuum. Addicted to java to start your day, keep you going or have you at your best in that board meeting/seminar/school test? Love how it makes you feel?
What about tobacco? Steadies you, allows you to focus by giving your body shots of chemicals, reduces awkwardness by generating body routines that are self satisfying and distracting..
Alcohol. The real gateway drug. Most peoples first encounters with what getting high is like, with all the associated awesome and downs, and completely societally acceptable.
From there, Mary Jane and the rest are simply steps into further disassociation from what is hard, painful, and emotionally hurtful. And not JUST disassociated, but you actually get to feel aaaawwesome, which seems to come round less and less after the age of 7 or 8. By the time you're in your late teens, unless you're incredibly successful scholastically and socially, life is worrying and tough most of the time and the highs wherever they come are enormous relief to an always stress mind.

As a species we've sought out these escapes since we were monkeys eating over ripened fruits, and plenty of other animals in the kingdom have similarly found narcotic pleasures by chance in the natural world and made them part of their evolutionary everyday existences. Even dolphins are known to play with certain fishes that release toxins in the water under duress, and that when swum through create euphoria and dopeyness in these extraordinary mammals. So the dolphins search out these fish for a trippy date whenever they can.

As the ultimate evolved animal on the planet, with the extraordinary pace and workload and societal agreement we make to study and grind in daily jobs or serve the nation in so many ways, it's hardly extraordinary that we choose to get ourselves out of this mental drain and into a free floating one through drug use. In fact it makes perfect and understandable sense.
There's no puritanical reasoning for not doing it, simply a functional one.
Will you live as long, achieve and experience all you want to, if you willingly compromise your health by taking these drugs?
If you're ok with it, can afford it, do not bring anyone else misery by doing it, I find zero issue with drug use.
Of course most can't manage that balance and that's the difficulty for those who aren't drawn to the practice because they feel no need to escape their dailies....

The world, the States, Oz, the Arab nations, they're all moving to a more tolerant stance and one that accepts that prohibition has emphatically failed, and will always fail because it's in our very nature to seek the escape it provides.

I'd be super interested in what you feel you're hearing that's different to what I've described.

I think you may consider listening to America outside of the circles in which you travel. My American relatives confront this reality. And the fact that the upper middle class, college educated urbanites have no clue about the real and disastrous consequences of drug use is of no surprise to me.

I understand it’s very sexy and hip to be hip on drugs, casual use and all that. People live in a bubble.

The Despair of Poor White Americans

Waste people. Rubbish. Clay-eaters. Hillbillies. Reckoning with the long, bleak history of the country’s original underclass.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[FisherHawk]

I thought I came to the delisted free agents thread?

 

[NICE1]

I have only been aware of Travis Tuck and Garlett at Hawthorn involved in drug issues, they were both shown the door.

There are plenty of untoward things that happen in football and they get dealt with by whatever law has been broken. But when it's drugs, which is linked to cheating, I would hope that it gets dealt with appropriately.

By 'party' do you mean play up and cause a public nuisance or drugs?

Lol no offence but i think your age is showing here. Drugs are rife in society and the AFL fraternity does not live in a separate world - unfortunately certain players from the HFC past and present are not the choir boys you'd like to think they are when it comes to this. No different to any other sporting club for that matter.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Well, if that's the path the club were to voluntarily go down then I will return my membership. I'd like to think they have some standards where they draw a line at drugs.

If you knew what half the players, our players, got up to then you'd have hand handed in your membership a long time ago.

 

[flinchfree]

I think you may consider listening to America outside of the circles in which you travel. My American relatives confront this reality. And the fact that the upper middle class, college educated urbanites have no clue about the real and disastrous consequences of drug use is of no surprise to me.

I understand it’s very sexy and hip to be hip on drugs, casual use and all that. People live in a bubble.

The Despair of Poor White Americans

Waste people. Rubbish. Clay-eaters. Hillbillies. Reckoning with the long, bleak history of the country’s original underclass.

www.theatlantic.com

I live in Kansas City, Kansas.
Not Manhattan NY.
Check out drug use and crime rates for the area.
Before then, I lived on the 1600 block of South Side Chicago for nearly 7 years.
Uhm, there is not many more dangerous or socially/economically compromised areas in the US than south side Chicago. Hardly sheltered mate.
My wife works in Health Care, we have friends in every circle.

My opinion isn't formed by being in a bubble, it comes from living in the reality of that world.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Young athletes on large salaries with heaps of downtime = party time!!!

 

[Pessimistic]

And henderson is in the room (not our one)

 

[PenAndPaper]

Young athletes on large salaries with heaps of downtime = party time!!!

And that's the thing that makes me laugh when people complain about AFL players playing fortnite & gaming.

 

[Pessimistic]

aww shit, lets just give bags of the gear to our draftees when we pick them. Cut out the middle man

Ludicrous post.

Theres more than a few cases of this. One reason I reckon the afl is soft on recreational drugs is more than a few non users would have been peer pressured into it after moving to a club interstate away from support structures

 

[PenAndPaper]

Theres more than a few cases of this. One reason I reckon the afl is soft on recreational drugs is more than a few non users would have been peer pressured into it after moving to a club interstate away from support structures

Another reason they are soft on it is because the amount of people in the AFL doing it is also huge

 

[CHUBBSS]

Can't be bothered with the drugs are bad discussion but things have changed from 20 years ago, It isn't 20% using and 80% frowned upon, it has completely flipped.

From all accounts, a lot of the untouchables use to love it and if it is not impacting your output on the field then there are bigger things to worry about.

 

[Delecate Des]

So how bout those free agents, hey?!?..........

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Can we move on from the drug talk, guys?