Play Nice Derailed, (The Place to Continue Off-Topic Discussion)

[gouki88]

hope so mate. The vast majority of Australians would want this on both sides of the referendum. Was a very poorly ran campaign.

What would make you think this is true?

 

[JB1975]

I've thought/said these things before, but why not add to the post-vote vomit?

The narrative of the Voice needed to be ironclad. The foundations for it needed to be laid over time, and the nature of it and need for it be beyond confusion because:

1. It was always likely that Dutton would use the referendum for political life support, ensuring lack of bipartisanship.
2. Australians are pretty conservative and don't vote on single issues very often, so the case for change needs to be crystal.
3. The referendum was held in the middle of a cost of living crisis. The voting away from inner cities tells us that people on a tightrope have little or no appetite for what they see as 'feelgood' politics.

Instead, swathes of non-English speaking communities didn't know about the referendum and had received no information on it in their language. The hopeless ambiguity of the issue also meant that, as the Libs would have it, a lot of people voted no because they just didn't know.

Albanese made himself more prominent late in the campaign. By this time it was too late to start building castles in the air, not least because his own popularity had started to take a dip.

 

[gouki88]

Do you make the same glib remarks about all those who hail from Aboriginal communities and don't share Jacinta Price's views? Eg. The one's whose views don't align with your own.

What would they know!

 

[whiskeytown]

It’s not a cop out all - when misinformation about the “ need do detail” convinced so many people to vote No.

People wanting to know what they are voting on is only natural!

It’s only considered misinformation by those who would rather keep control of the narrative… keep the population blind.

The voice case was all about the vibe. Albo tried to channel Whitlam and shaman a wave of support for an oblique idea but failed

Every election political parties release policies to help voters decide

And if you go through the history of referendums in this country you’ll struggle to find anything as vague as ‘the voice’ proposed

Referendums in Australia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It was a rubbish idea for a referendum. And a huge disservice not splitting the question into two. Because today we would have had the voice fail but constitutional recognition of indigenous Australians enshrined

Time to admit you picked a donkey and it lost

 

[gouki88]

People wanting to know what they are voting on is only natural!

It’s only considered misinformation by those who would rather keep control of the narrative… keep the population blind.

The voice case was all about the vibe. Albo tried to channel Whitlam and shaman a wave of support for an oblique idea but failed

Every election political parties release policies to help voters decide

And if you go through the history of referendums in this country you’ll struggle to find anything as vague as ‘the voice’ proposed

Referendums in Australia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Time to admit you picked a donkey and it lost

Yes, it's all a conspiracy to empower the most marginalised. What horror

 

[frizzle]

Barristers

Or Young Liberals grooming one another

It’s not a cop out all - when misinformation about the “ need do detail” convinced so many people to vote No. And was the indoctrination used to train those handing out “Vote No”, cards as I found out when casting my vote.

Will you support Albo's misinformation legislation?

 

[Drought Break]

Do you make the same glib remarks about all those who hail from Aboriginal communities and don't share Jacinta Price's views? Eg. The one's whose views don't align with your own.

not everyone is going to have the same view, many however do share Jacintas views. Why did her local community vote NO?. Why did both NT electorates vote NO?

 

[gouki88]

not everyone is going to have the same view, many however do share Jacintas views. Why did her local community vote NO?. Why did both NT electorates vote NO?

Do you think the NT is exclusively Aboriginal people? They do not make up 1/3 of the NT

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I've thought/said these things before, but why not add to the post-vote vomit?

The narrative of the Voice needed to be ironclad. The foundations for it needed to be laid over time, and the nature of it and need for it be beyond confusion because:

1. It was always likely that Dutton would use the referendum for political life support, ensuring lack of bipartisanship.
2. Australians are pretty conservative and don't vote on single issues very often, so the case for change needs to be crystal.
3. The referendum was held in the middle of a cost of living crisis. The voting away from inner cities tells us that people on a tightrope have little or no appetite for what they see as 'feelgood' politics.

Instead, swathes of non-English speaking communities didn't know about the referendum and had received no information on it in their language. The hopeless ambiguity of the issue also meant that, as the Libs would have it, a lot of people voted no because they just didn't know.

Albanese made himself more prominent late in the campaign. By this time it was too late to start building castles in the air, not least because his own popularity had started to take a dip.

What would you know?

Apart from being a history prof and having thought deeply about this for many years?

 

[manicpie]

What a hilarious irony. You've been sucked in by a snake oil merchant in Price!

I'm not so sure mate. I voted yes because I though it was important that the First Nations people were included in the Constitution. What you say about Jacinta really shows your bias and uneducated opinion about the real issues facing First Nation people. That's all I'm saying because you can't seem to see any other views but your own and your own are way off

 

[gouki88]

I'm not so sure mate. I voted yes because I though it was important that the First Nations people were included in the Constitution. What you say about Jacinta really shows your bias and uneducated opinion about the real issues facing First Nation people. That's all I'm saying because you can't seem to see any other views but your own and your own are way off

I'm more than happy to be pointed in the right direction. Jacinta is an f-wit. If Jacinta is so embedded in "the real issues", why do so many people in those marginalised communities reject her?

 

[windchimes]

The NT voted No

30% of its 250,000 population is indigenous

Many NT indigenous people are living in the conditions that need government intervention and support… they’ve seen well meaning white people make promises and come and go

And the NT resoundingly voting No makes a mockery of sound bite claims that 80% of indigenous people supported the voice.

The mostly white ACT voted yes. 500k population with many who work in bureaucracy and government

2% of the ACT population is indigenous

Chalk and cheese results which sum up the referendum result perfectly

Anyone looking to blame Murdoch or Dutton ask yourself how many indigenous people in the NT,,etc read Murdoch press or pay attention to what Dutton says

Blaming racism, Murdoch or Dutton (blah,blah,blah) is a cop out.

People just need to honestly own up to the idea that enshrining the voice in the constitution was a bad idea from the start - and the Australian public have resoundingly called that bad idea out

You understand how a referendum works, right?

I accept what you're saying in regards to NT voting No, as yes, that would suggest that some of its 30% indigenous population voted against it (to extent to which is still not conclusive, as we don't know the break down of how first nations people voted there when compared to their often aversive, majority white population).

But the bolded part is a tad ridiculous. For a referendum to be successful, you need the majority of the country's population and the majority of the country's states to vote in favour of the amendment. I don't know what whacko logic you're using to argue that one of the countries major political parties opposing the referendum combined with the double whammy of the widespread Murdoch media pushback wouldn't have affected the vote. Of course it did.

NT's rural indigenous population may not engage with News Corp media or give a shit what Dutton says, but a lot of the population living across the rest of the country does, and that's where the referendum was lost. The minute the Coalition opposed it, the Yes vote lost hope of convincing a load of Australians living across the country.

 

[gouki88]

You understand how a referendum works, right?

I accept what you're saying in regards to NT voting No, as yes, that would suggest that some of its 30% indigenous population voted against it (to extent to which is still not conclusive, as we don't know the break down of how first nations people voted there when compared to their often aversive, majority white population).

But the bolded part is a tad ridiculous. For a referendum to be successful, you need the majority of the country's population and the majority of the country's states to vote in favour of the amendment. I don't know what whacko logic you're using to argue that one of the countries major political parties opposing the referendum combined with the double whammy of the widespread Murdoch media pushback wouldn't have affected the vote. Of course it did.

NT's rural indigenous population may not engage with News Corp media or give a s**t what Dutton says, but a lot of the population living across the rest of the country does, and that's where the referendum was lost. The minute the Coalition opposed it, the Yes vote lost hope of convincing a load of Australians living across the country.

Large masses not knowing how the referendum nor the Constitution work is a pretty big part of the issue

 

[whiskeytown]

You understand how a referendum works, right?

I accept what you're saying in regards to NT voting No, as yes, that would suggest that some of its 30% indigenous population voted against it (to extent to which is still not conclusive, as we don't know the break down of how first nations people voted there when compared to their often aversive, majority white population).

But the bolded part is a tad ridiculous. For a referendum to be successful, you need the majority of the country's population and the majority of the country's states to vote in favour of the amendment. I don't know what whacko logic you're using to argue that one of the countries major political parties opposing the referendum combined with the double whammy of the widespread Murdoch media pushback wouldn't have affected the vote. Of course it did.

NT's rural indigenous population may not engage with News Corp media or give a s**t what Dutton says, but a lot of the population living across the rest of the country does, and that's where the referendum was lost. The minute the Coalition opposed it, the Yes vote lost hope of convincing a load of Australians living across the country.

3 years of political science at uni

I understand how a referendum works

I comparing NT and ACT as examples in terms of demographics, socioeconomic status etc… and how they voted yesterday

And that pattern was replicated over most of the country. The inner city materially well off voting yes… and less wealthier, less white outer suburban, rural and remote communities largely voting No

Clearly went well over your head

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Will you support Albo's misinformation legislation?

From the précis I have heard, I have concerns on how this legislation would be implemented, that those in judgment may not have the wisdom nor impartiality to make good decisions

My default position is free speech contested by disinfecting sunlight

As citizens, especially if we have been afforded good education, I believe we have a duty to be informed about significant matters facing us

We then need the emotional self control to engage in debate without being rigid and defensive

 

[JB1975]

What would you know?

Apart from being a history prof and having thought deeply about this for many years?

If 'thinking deeply' means attending to social media for a couple of years whilst eating/spilling gelato on myself, then yes, I suppose I have!

 

[gouki88]

3 years of political science at uni

I understand how a referendum works

I comparing NT and ACT as examples in terms of demographics and how they voted

Clearly went well over your head

Did your political science degree teach you to look at race as the only demographic?

 

[sr36]

P.S: I voted Yes and as you can tell am a little peeved at what I perceive to be the ineptness which doomed an amazing opportunity.

I'm not too concerned about the Voice not getting up as I do think it was primarily tokenism with a very slight nod towards something more meaningful. But I'm more peeved about the state of political discussion rather than the actual campaign. We're at a point when it is all about catchphrases and soundbites. Eg. Ultimately the voice and Aboriginal rights to a level of autonomy are about division, but you can't discuss that because conceding division is a sound bite with a really negative connotation. And there's your campaign done and dusted. You've basically got to patronise and dumb it down but pretend not to.

 

[windchimes]

3 years of political science at uni

I understand how a referendum works

I comparing NT and ACT as examples in terms of demographics and how they voted

Clearly went well over your head

No, you argued that Dutton or Murdoch had no influence on the result, citing the fact that a territory that makes up 1% of the population voted no and that some of that 1%'s population probably don't engage with the media or the Coalition, therefore the rest of the country probably wasn't influenced by these factors too, which is simply untrue and illogical.

That 3 years of political science definitely didn't teach you how to form cohesive arguments, evidently.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I'm more than happy to be pointed in the right direction. Jacinta is an f-wit. If Jacinta is so embedded in "the real issues", why do so many people in those marginalised communities reject her?

Gouki, we make little impact in life unless we can persuade others

Calling Jacinta the names you choose advances nothing

It has a net negative impact

I share many of your political views, and your debating approach does not further our cause

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

If 'thinking deeply' means attending to social media for a couple of years whilst eating/spilling gelato on myself, then yes, I suppose I have!

And licked the gelato off, you self-loving minx

 

[Drought Break]

I'm more than happy to be pointed in the right direction. Jacinta is an f-wit. If Jacinta is so embedded in "the real issues", why do so many people in those marginalised communities reject her?

It is people from your side with the f-wit, racist, dinosaur, dickhead taunts that was a major factor on the YES campaign failing. Ray Martin a classic example. Delivered his hate filled speech, then when asked for details on what the voice was all about in a debate could not explain anything, biggest own goal since John Hewsons GST birthday cake interview.

 

[whiskeytown]

No, you argued that Dutton or Murdoch had no influence on the result, citing the fact that a territory that makes up 1% of the population voted no and that some of that 1%'s population probably don't engage with the media or the Coalition, therefore the rest of the country probably wasn't influenced by these factors too, which is simply untrue and illogical.

That 3 years of political science definitely didn't teach you how to form cohesive arguments, evidently.

I never argued that Dutton and Murdoch hold zero sway

Just like I would never argue that the ABC, corporate behemoths like Qantas, celebrities etc… held zero sway for the Yes vote

You’re just clutching at straws

Reading some of the commentary out there… some of the Yes voters are really struggling today because their ego and superiority complex has taken a direct hit

 

[stormskye]

Entering this thread be like

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Entering this thread be like


View attachment 1831490

No wonder you were kicked out of Army Reserves wearing that dickhead costume