Play Nice Derailed, (The Place to Continue Off-Topic Discussion)

[westozpie]

Thank You particularly your honesty.

Good luck to you.

Cheers, not being smart arse at all but would genuinely like your thoughts on your well put together questions

 

[Help My Club]

Westozpie

As requested I am happy to answer the questions I posed to you but they seem to have disappeared. The work of Moderators by chance? Not sure how they could be construed as offensive (but I am having a quiet giggle at the thought) but here goes as I remember them:

Q 1 - I was neutral on the SP so I should have had a (c) Neutral. My apologies
Q 2 - Given I was neutral, I had no answer for this question. Mind you, I remember thinking that MM was in his 9th year without a flag and hence change was probably appropriate however I wasn't keen on the idea of a former Collingwood person becoming senior coach. Could have been Daicos, Brown, any Pies player for that matter as I wouldn't have thought it was the progressive thing to do. So you will need to take me on face value - it wasn't personal re Buckley.
Q 3 - Purpose of the SP - A premiership or multiple premierships - nothing less. Plain and simple. The other stuff for me is not in my reality.
Q 4 & 5 - By the time the coaching handover was initiated at the end of 2011, bling freddie could see that it was going to be a difficult handover period. Those at fault - MM (for being a pain in the proverbial ) but moreso McGuire (guilty of blind emotive stupidity), Pert & Kelly (for being manipulative so and so's behind the scenes) have a lot to answer for. Buckley, on the other hand, was the consummate professional throughout. But in view of the above, I had no real expectation of success and subsequently am not surprised that we are flagless 8 years later.
Q 6 - Come end of 2021, I hope this question is redundant as we have won a flag or 2. But if not, regardless of ladder positions in 2020/21, surely it would be time to move on. Supporters were rightly questioning MM after 9 years so I think the same should hold true here. So both McGuire and Buckley to go and the regime unwound. Assuming no flags, will this happen? I think not. And therein lays the problem. If I may be granted one moment - I look forward to the McGuire "Spin Machine" in full force come end of 2021. Compulsory Viewing.

 

[westozpie]

Cheers, not being smart arse at all but would genuinely like your thoughts on your well put together questions

Westozpie

As requested I am happy to answer the questions I posed to you but they seem to have disappeared. The work of Moderators by chance? Not sure how they could be construed as offensive (but I am having a quiet giggle at the thought) but here goes as I remember them:

Q 1 - I was neutral on the SP so I should have had a (c) Neutral. My apologies
Q 2 - Given I was neutral, I had no answer for this question. Mind you, I remember thinking that MM was in his 9th year without a flag and hence change was probably appropriate however I wasn't keen on the idea of a former Collingwood person becoming senior coach. Could have been Daicos, Brown, any Pies player for that matter as I wouldn't have thought it was the progressive thing to do. So you will need to take me on face value - it wasn't personal re Buckley.
Q 3 - Purpose of the SP - A premiership or multiple premierships - nothing less. Plain and simple. The other stuff for me is not in my reality.
Q 4 & 5 - By the time the coaching handover was initiated at the end of 2011, bling freddie could see that it was going to be a difficult handover period. Those at fault - MM (for being a pain in the proverbial ) but moreso McGuire (guilty of blind emotive stupidity), Pert & Kelly (for being manipulative so and so's behind the scenes) have a lot to answer for. Buckley, on the other hand, was the consummate professional throughout. But in view of the above, I had no real expectation of success and subsequently am not surprised that we are flagless 8 years later.
Q 6 - Come end of 2021, I hope this question is redundant as we have won a flag or 2. But if not, regardless of ladder positions in 2020/21, surely it would be time to move on. Supporters were rightly questioning MM after 9 years so I think the same should hold true here. So both McGuire and Buckley to go and the regime unwound. Assuming no flags, will this happen? I think not. And therein lays the problem. If I may be granted one moment - I look forward to the McGuire "Spin Machine" in full force come end of 2021. Compulsory Viewing.

Interesting that my reply has also been deleted, not sure why. Nothing offensive there.
Well said above, just with your thoughts on McGuire. Yes he loves Bucks (as I do) but he had to act when it looked like Bucks was going to coach North. I think he was in a no win situation and came up with the succession plan which was ground breaking at the time. And as you say wasn't helped by mad Mick who I blame totally.
It's interesting that Essendon have a succession plan in place now and both Sydney and Melbourne also had one successfully completed.

 

[Help My Club]

Interesting that my reply has also been deleted, not sure why. Nothing offensive there.
Well said above, just with your thoughts on McGuire. Yes he loves Bucks (as I do) but he had to act when it looked like Bucks was going to coach North. I think he was in a no win situation and came up with the succession plan which was ground breaking at the time. And as you say wasn't helped by mad Mick who I blame totally.
It's interesting that Essendon have a succession plan in place now and both Sydney and Melbourne also had one successfully completed.

I seems we've been relegated to the "Derailed" thread mate. Suspect you don't deserve it so sorry for bringing you down to my level (in the eyes of many).

I take a converse view on McGuire feeling he had to act to prevent Buckley going to North. I believe that Buckley needed time/exposure outside the Collingwood fish bowl aka Mitchell and Hodge and that it would have been in his best interests to do so. Buckley had never had any exposure outside Collingwood and I firmly believe that he would have become a more rounded/diversified individual/man manager had he spent some time at another club(s). If it was good enough for Hawthorn/Mitchell/Hodge, then I suspect it should have been good enough for the Pies. Very shallow/insular thinking by McGuire, in my humble opinion.

Succession plans! Do they really work? Well it requires all parties to genuinely agree to the process. Clearly Collingwood's didn't work and whilst most people blame Malthouse for this, McGuire needs to also take some responsibility for his complete lack of awareness. Bling freddie could see that Malthouse wasn't happy about it but obviously felt that he had to go along with it. The Sydney SP clearly worked but the jury is still out on Melbourne. Essendon - too early to tell.

 

[jmac70]

I seems we've been relegated to the "Derailed" thread mate. Suspect you don't deserve it so sorry for bringing you down to my level (in the eyes of many).

I take a converse view on McGuire feeling he had to act to prevent Buckley going to North. I believe that Buckley needed time/exposure outside the Collingwood fish bowl aka Mitchell and Hodge and that it would have been in his best interests to do so. Buckley had never had any exposure outside Collingwood and I firmly believe that he would have become a more rounded/diversified individual/man manager had he spent some time at another club(s). If it was good enough for Hawthorn/Mitchell/Hodge, then I suspect it should have been good enough for the Pies. Very shallow/insular thinking by McGuire, in my humble opinion.

Succession plans! Do they really work? Well it requires all parties to genuinely agree to the process. Clearly Collingwood's didn't work and whilst most people blame Malthouse for this, McGuire needs to also take some responsibility for his complete lack of awareness. Bling freddie could see that Malthouse wasn't happy about it but obviously felt that he had to go along with it. The Sydney SP clearly worked but the jury is still out on Melbourne. Essendon - too early to tell.

Mick was coach in 2011 and we lost.

 

[Help My Club]

Mick was coach in 2011 and we lost.

Moderators, Moderators help!

I'm being hounded by this guy. This is clearly now my little thread to have constructive discussion with others. I now own this thread. It is mine. I would appreciate it if you would use your powers to ensure that our discussions are not 'DERAILED" by others who choose not to engage in the spirit of this thread. Pretty please.

 

[jmac70]

Moderators, Moderators help!

I'm being hounded by this guy. This is clearly now my little thread to have constructive discussion with others. I now own this thread. It is mine. I would appreciate it if you would use your powers to ensure that our discussions are not 'DERAILED" by others who choose not to engage in the spirit of this thread. Pretty please.

Run little rabbit, but you can’t hide.

 

[Help My Club]

Run little rabbit, but you can’t hide.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

 

[jonbe54]

Cripps, Dunkley, Watson, Treloar, Shiel, Priddis etc. I think high value is placed on foot skill by some supporters because all of the best teams have at least one guy that can rip you open with it.

We’ve been blessed with one of the very best in Pendles, GWS have Kelly and Whitfield, Hawthorn had Hodge and Lewis, WC Shuey and Kelly and Richmond have Martin. Guys that win their own ball and use it with precision by foot are pretty rare. Sier might have it, but we haven’t seen enough yet and all eyes will be on Nick Daicos...

Bringing it full circle both Bianco and IQ seem to be fantastic users which is great considering the roles they’ll play long term.

Nicely balanced post Sco, our viewpoints may differ at times but thank you for standing apart from hysteria.

IMO we are still a team in transition and surely this must apply to all teams in the competition with the brave new world forced upon us all by the AFL's dependence upon media sponsorship.

The media demand incessant movement within the competition from high to low and the AFL have provided this for their lords and masters by constructing an artificial treadmill that forces clubs into mediocrity at regular intervals.

Look at the evenness of the competition last year - this is a graphic demonstration of the artificial construct which still goes by the name of a football competition.

What's that I hear from the sheep?

An even competition is a great competition??

Yeah?????

We have an 18 team competition and if any of you imagine that such an even competition as last years was can come about without external manipulation you should go back to kindergarten.

I will continue to follow my team but I only have utter contempt for the so called governing body of the competition/circus that has violated the game I have always loved.

 

[Kirby]

^ Interesting segue into irrelevant rant.

 

[Gone Critical]

Nicely balanced post Sco, our viewpoints may differ at times but thank you for standing apart from hysteria.

IMO we are still a team in transition and surely this must apply to all teams in the competition with the brave new world forced upon us all by the AFL's dependence upon media sponsorship.

The media demand incessant movement within the competition from high to low and the AFL have provided this for their lords and masters by constructing an artificial treadmill that forces clubs into mediocrity at regular intervals.

Look at the evenness of the competition last year - this is a graphic demonstration of the artificial construct which still goes by the name of a football competition.

What's that I hear from the sheep?

An even competition is a great competition??

Yeah?????

We have an 18 team competition and if any of you imagine that such an even competition as last years was can come about without external manipulation you should go back to kindergarten.

I will continue to follow my team but I only have utter contempt for the so called governing body of the competition/circus that has violated the game I have always loved.

Jonbe a couple of points

I didn’t see the hysteria in this conversation you noticed

You seem fond of labelling people on here as sheep. It seems more related to them having a different point of view to you than following the party line. Not sure it really adds much to the discussion.

I think it’s generally well understood the AFL have manipulated the comp to keep it even. It’s their well stated aim and no secret. I think generally it’s been well managed. Before we added the socialism to the comp we were at risk of losing more teams and if we want a national comp ( there is no choice and I loved the VFL) manipulating the comp is needed unless we want to go the EPL route where a few extremely wealthy clubs are the only teams who can win and the rest fight for scraps.

AFLs manipulations are not all good and a lot of stuff they do with the draw is bad but the idea of keeping a level playing field for all has plenty of merit.

 

[jonbe54]

Jonbe a couple of points

I didn’t see the hysteria in this conversation you noticed

You seem fond of labelling people on here as sheep. It seems more related to them having a different point of view to you than following the party line. Not sure it really adds much to the discussion.

I think it’s generally well understood the AFL have manipulated the comp to keep it even. It’s their well stated aim and no secret. I think generally it’s been well managed. Before we added the socialism to the comp we were at risk of losing more teams and if we want a national comp ( there is no choice and I loved the VFL) manipulating the comp is needed unless we want to go the EPL route where a few extremely wealthy clubs are the only teams who can win and the rest fight for scraps.

AFLs manipulations are not all good and a lot of stuff they do with the draw is bad but the idea of keeping a level playing field for all has plenty of merit.

Did I say 'sheep HERE' GC??????????

NO I didn't . . methinks you are being a trifle bit oversensitive in this case.

To me anyone who swallows the media's various agendas without a single critical thought - IN ANY ASPECT OF WORLD EVENTS - is indeed a sheep.

The manipulation of so-called news has been demonstrated countless times - but the sheeple are simply too lazy to think for themselves.

That has no direct implication HERE - unless someone feels unfairly singled out - and if they do they are admitting the charge.

Put simply sheep exist everywhere - nothing else could explain Trump being elected - and I expect the right of free speech in this regard as any of those calling specific posters far worse and getting away with it.

No one has been maligned or defamed here on this board and I'm quite miffed to have been accused of such.

 

[sr36]

^ Interesting segue into irrelevant rant.

You dont think that its an AFL conspiracy that some gun mids have dodgy ball drops? Wake up Kirby.

 

[jmac70]

Jonbe a couple of points

I didn’t see the hysteria in this conversation you noticed

You seem fond of labelling people on here as sheep. It seems more related to them having a different point of view to you than following the party line. Not sure it really adds much to the discussion.

I think it’s generally well understood the AFL have manipulated the comp to keep it even. It’s their well stated aim and no secret. I think generally it’s been well managed. Before we added the socialism to the comp we were at risk of losing more teams and if we want a national comp ( there is no choice and I loved the VFL) manipulating the comp is needed unless we want to go the EPL route where a few extremely wealthy clubs are the only teams who can win and the rest fight for scraps.

AFLs manipulations are not all good and a lot of stuff they do with the draw is bad but the idea of keeping a level playing field for all has plenty of merit.

I believe the draw is the biggest problem in the AFL. We need to move to a conference system, or reduce the number of teams. The current format is unfair.

 

[Kirby]

You dont think that its an AFL conspiracy that some gun mids have dodgy ball drops? Wake up Kirby.

I may be getting confused, but I thought the AFL conspiracy was getting sheep to play as midfielders?

I heard that they aren't great with their ball drop either, but make great state level basketballers.

 

[sr36]

I may be getting confused, but I thought the AFL conspiracy was getting sheep to play as midfielders?

I heard that they aren't great with their ball drop either, but make great state level basketballers.

Sheep think very differently to most Bigfooty posters, therefore sheep who posted on this board or played midfield in the AFL wouldn't be 'sheep'. Thus in order to have less 'sheep' it would be a great idea to have more sheep. I propose we reduce 'sheep' by opening up a sheep academy that encourages sheep to become more active in the AFL and associated forums.

 

[Apex36]

Put simply sheep exist everywhere - nothing else could explain Trump being elected - and I expect the right of free speech in this regard as any of those calling specific posters far worse and getting away with it.

Terrible example yet again. If people truly were the sheep you say they are then they’d be voting against Trump in droves due to the overwhelming noise from media outlets/celebrities/social media against him. Yet here we are, with Trump likely to be re-elected because people make up their own minds rather than listen to the people who shriek on their platforms. That’s not to say they’re right, or smart, but they certainly aren’t the sheep you accuse them of being.

 

[Nuwanda]

I may be getting confused, but I thought the AFL conspiracy was getting sheep to play as midfielders?

I heard that they aren't great with their ball drop either, but make great state level basketballers.

Sorry but I’m getting a little confused here.
Are we talking sheep or sheeples? IMO sheeples have an unfair advantage over sheep with hands and legs.
But then again what would I know? I’m that other breed labelled Sheep-Troll.

 

[sr36]

Sorry but I’m getting a little confused here.
Are we talking sheep or sheeples? IMO sheeples have an unfair advantage over sheep with hands and legs.
But then again what would I know? I’m that other breed labelled Sheep-Troll.

Sheep have legs too. They're delicious. I can see carrying rosemary and garlic on to the ground and rubbing it on your opponent becoming a new way of taunting these new sheep mids. I wonder how long it will take the AFL to crack down on it.

 

[Kappa]

Tgg you truly have a severe fixation with vertically 'challenged' people don't you?

I was a point guard in state league basketball and at 5 foot 5 inches I was what you would call a 'midget' but you don't make even the state league without good reason.

If you believe bigger means better you are SERIOUSLY deluded.

How many guys 5ft 5 are running around in the NBA just out of interest?

 

[magpie_marty]

Sheep have legs too. They're delicious. I can see carrying rosemary and garlic on to the ground and rubbing it on your opponent becoming a new way of taunting these new sheep mids. I wonder how long it will take the AFL to crack down on it.

When I think of sheep I think of lamb and when I think of lamb I think of slamming Sam.

 

[sr36]

When I think of sheep I think of lamb and when I think of lamb I think of slamming Sam.

Brilliant. 15 years on, that add has become even more relevant.

 

[magpie_marty]

Brilliant. 15 years on, that add has become even more relevant.

Was thinking the same sr36

 

[Kirby]

How many guys 5ft 5 are running around in the NBA just out of interest?

 

[Apex36]

How many guys 5ft 5 are running around in the NBA just out of interest?

None currently, and only two in history. Earl Boykins @ 5’5 and Muggsy Bogues @ 5’3. Ya damn sheep.