Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[Wallace52]

I know what you mean and people say you don’t know what you’d do unless you’re in that situation but I don’t get it.

I know what I would do. I would follow the law and cop the consequences or outcomes.

Because you don’t leave a little boy out in the bush.

You call 000 and ask for help.

Bayden Clay and Dawson- just leave your wife.
Tiahleigh Palmer killer-accept what’s happened and let your son have some accountability. The consequences for his son weren’t life threatening.

Selfish people. They make me sick.

** NB/ The police theory is just a theory

 

[passball]

Say if the FM was found guilty of the charges.
Would we still not know her name?

 

[shorsky]

With respect K that's not correct. You can post a link to an entire article because linking isn't considered a copyright activity. Please check that I'm correct on that point to satisfy on behalf of the board. .I've already checked myself

Pretty sure it goes like this

You can POST the Link -
You Can Not PASTE the whole article - only a bit of it

 

[Underarrest_]

I know what I would do. I would follow the law and cop the consequences or outcomes.

Because you don’t leave a little boy out in the bush.

You call 000 and ask for help.

** NB/ The police theory is just a theory

Yes I know I would too. can’t comprehend it.

 

[31550]

I read a post by yourself where you made two references for the drive being after the FM saw Anne Marie Sharpley.

Not sure how to link it here. It is from the previous thread and is post 3822 from March 2022. Maybe this link will work. Yes, it does. I just tried it.

Current - Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include: Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs) Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty 2 x charges of assault...

www.bigfooty.com

Yes Overington's book reports it in that sequence. But how does it fit with Sharpley's evidence?

 

[Wallace52]

Say if the FM was found guilty of the charges.
Would we still not know her name?

That is correct.

 

[Kurve]

Yes Overington's book reports it in that sequence. But how does it fit with Sharpley's evidence?

What's weird about the whole thing, is that after the alarm was raised William was missing and people had started to look for him, nobody noticed the FM drive out.

Yet the Crabbes heard a vehicle after 9.30 and before the neighbours knew a child was missing, at 48 Benaroon Drive, then heard it drive off quite fast.

 

[Wallace52]

Say if the FM was found guilty of the charges.
Would we still not know her name?

Let’s say for arguments sake the FM was jailed.

She’s not, she’s on a community 12 month corrections order right now, but let’s say for arguments sake she was in jail for that period of time. Her cell mate would know her name, right? Like the inmates would get to know her as an inmate and they would know her name.

Would we as the public know her name? No.

 

[31550]

What's weird about the whole thing, is that after the alarm was raised William was missing and people had started to look for him, nobody noticed the FM drive out.

et the Crabbes heard a vehicle after 9.30 and before the neighbours knew a child was missing, at 48 Benaroon Drive, then heard it drive off quite fast.

More than weird. I just don't reckon it's possible.

 

[InTheBleachers]

Yes Overington's book reports it in that sequence. But how does it fit with Sharpley's evidence?

Well, Anne Marie and the FM didn't knock at Lydene's door until about 11:30am according to these two articles.

And Anne Marie, alone, knocked at Paul Savage's door at around 11am.

So I don't know where you are getting your times from. And why you think that the FM and Anne Marie were together from 10:40am onwards.

It seems they met up, separated, and met up again.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

What happened on the day William Tyrrell vanished?

Mid-morning on September 12, 2014, Paul Savage was inside his house on Benaroon Drive, Kendall, in the green and tranquil river valley of Camden Haven on NSW’s mid-north coast.

www.news.com.au

I can't find the Paul Savage time again right now but this article explains it was around 11am that Anne Marie knocked at his door. Maybe a little before 11am.

'I remember hearing kids': Tyrrell witness | The New Daily 'I remember hearing kids': Tyrrell witness

%%excerpt%% An elderly neighbour told the William Tyrrell inquest he remembers hearing kids playing about an hour before the three-year-old went missing.

www.thenewdaily.com.au

 

[passball]

Keep it Together.
Keep it Together.
Keep it Together.

That's the last thing I would be thinking before I rang 000, this IS the time you panic.

Keep it Together has lasted 10 years.

Too many added things from the FM in this case, something is off, IMO. I just can not believe when her stories change, and these changes aren't little things, they seem a little bit major to me.

Cars suddenly there, redhead weathered guy looking at her, her looking at him, bike riding, car ride, semi trailer waving at her, (thanks mate).

He mightn't be able to hear because of a knocked head.
He deliberately crashed his bike in to the garden.
He doesn't like heights.
He doesn't wander.

Who believes he wandered?
Who believes he was abducted?
Who believes the Fosters were involved?
And who believes William is deceased?

Guess we might know in 200 years.

 

[31550]

Well, Anne Marie and the FM didn't knock at Lydene's door until about 11:30am according to these two articles.

And Anne Marie, alone, knocked at Paul Savage's door at around 11am.

So I don't know where you are getting your times from. And why you think that the FM and Anne Marie were together from 10:40am onwards.

It seems they met up, separated, and met up again.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

What happened on the day William Tyrrell vanished?

Mid-morning on September 12, 2014, Paul Savage was inside his house on Benaroon Drive, Kendall, in the green and tranquil river valley of Camden Haven on NSW’s mid-north coast.

www.news.com.au

That article has several errors including FF leaving the house at 9:15. And the grandmother seeing cars.

I prefer to get the information from Sharpley's evidence given directly to the coroner, not via a journalist.

 

[InTheBleachers]

That article has several errors including FF leaving the house at 9:15. And the grandmother seeing cars.

I prefer to get the information from Sharpley's evidence given directly to the coroner, not via a journalist.

Instead of me giving you every link I can find why don't you give the links that show what you are saying. Because nothing I see says that Anne Marie and the FM stayed together. And everything I see says they were together at around 10:40 then again at Lydene's at 11:30.

 

[31550]

Instead of me giving you every link I can find why don't you give the links that show what you are saying. Because nothing I see says that Anne Marie and the FM stayed together. And everything I see says they were together at around 10:40 then again at Lydene's at 11:30.

Here's another one from Candace which tells yet another version.

William Tyrrell foster mother's never before seen police interview

A police interview with William Tyrrell 's foster mother shows she gave confused and varying accounts of what happened on the toddler's last morning alive.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Don't know where you get 11.30 from. Even the FM says she saw Lydene before dialling 000.

 

[InTheBleachers]

Here's another one from Candace which tells yet another version.

William Tyrrell foster mother's never before seen police interview

A police interview with William Tyrrell 's foster mother shows she gave confused and varying accounts of what happened on the toddler's last morning alive.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Don't know where you get 11.30 from. Even the FM says she saw Lydene before dialling 000.

So you are NOW believing the FM's confusion, which is pointed out in the article, instead of believing what Anne Marie and Lydene said?

Okay, whatever. I don't think you are trying to be realistic. Sorry.

 

[passball]

Let’s say for arguments sake the FM was jailed.

She’s not, she’s on a community 12 month corrections order right now, but let’s say for arguments sake she was in jail for that period of time. Her cell mate would know her name, right? Like the inmates would get to know her as an inmate and they would know her name.

Would we as the public know her name? No.

Then why was Tialeigh Palmer's foster dad named?
Because she had Williams sister?
She doesn't have his sister in her care anymore.
Does she have any foster kids atm?

 

[InTheBleachers]

Don't know where you get 11.30 from. Even the FM says she saw Lydene before dialling 000.

I gave you the links.


This one, might be paywalled, says that Lydene told the journalist, who is Lia Harris, that at 11:30am there was a knock at the door, it was Anne Marie and the FM.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

And this one says Neighbour Lydene Heslop heard a knock at her door, which she opened to Anne-Maree from up the road and William’s foster mother. “The mother had this haunted look on her face,” Ms Heslop would later tell Australian Women’s Weekly. Ms Heslop called to her children out back, but they hadn’t seen another kid. It was 11.30am. “All three of us started searching through the front yard, the side of the house and the backyard and the bush that borders the properties around here.”

What happened on the day William Tyrrell vanished?

Mid-morning on September 12, 2014, Paul Savage was inside his house on Benaroon Drive, Kendall, in the green and tranquil river valley of Camden Haven on NSW’s mid-north coast.

www.news.com.au

 

[shorsky]

Cops wanted Lonergan up there too. There must be something they want to present that the coroner doesn't want to hear for some reason.
I don't see any point in calling FM. Just present her various testimonies and whatever evidence you have which refutes it in the brief.
What does the coroner think she can ask that hasn't already been asked?

With all due respect 31550, I think I recall that you had a list of questions you wanted clarified…. even if they’ve been asked previously ( and often with conflicting answers) let’s ask them Again. … and check the variances.
Here’s some I’d ask:
* did William sleep wth FF
* did William wet the bed
* what time did William wake up
* what time did FD wake up ( did FD sleep with FM)
* where / when that morning did the children both watch the ‘show’ on FF’s phone
* did the children ride their bikes that morning, and if so, when ?
* were they under adult supervision & if so, by whom
* did they crash their bikes ? Where ? any injuries ? scraped knees, arms etc
* did the children shower & dress before or after bike ride / breakfast
* who prepared breakfast
* did FF eat breakfast with them
* what time did FF leave
* did FM take children & their colouring gear to the deck after breakfast, while FGM washed up
* what happened to her hand ? What time ?
* last photo taken at 9.37 am ( was it the last ? There were more photos that haven’t been made public )
* was it difficult to use the camera with her cut hand
* after photo did William immediately go off playing on the grass while FD staying doing her colouring (approx 9.40 am)
* did FM & FGM then go inside out of ear shot to have the discussion about William’s behaviour
* did FM & FGM stay together during that time
* where was FGM when FM said to affect of ‘ its vey quiet, I can’t hear him’
* where was FD at that stage
* did FM ask FD if she knew where William was / where she last saw him / what he’d been doing
* who cared for FD while FM was looking for William
* did FM tell FD she was going for a drive and to stay with FGM - do not leave the house !
Etc etc

 

[shorsky]

It wasn't Craddock asking questions about the drive , it was Sophie Callan & Mr Barnes from the NSW CC & all this was played for the Coroner.

I don't know what investigations the Coroner has done on the timeline.

I cannot possibly tell you every question that was asked, & to keep asking me to do so is not fair.

But basically every question that has been asked of this case in the last 10yrs on forums, facebook etc was explored.

She was asked about the drive, the car keys, the searching, the phones, all the morning activities, the cups of tea, the 000 call, the neighbours, the riding school, the verandah, the garage, about where the FF was when she made the 000 call, alot about times etc

I certainly appreciate your information, as you say a lot is covered that does not make the publications.

And I understand now from your post above, that most of the information re FM questioning comes from the report on FM interview with Crime Commission.

It would be very helpful for me, and I think for others also, if you could state the source of the information please.
e.g.
the Truck driver appeared online and said xyz
we heard in some of the 4 Hr CC interview, that FM was asked xyz and her response was …. ( I can’t remember )

Thank you.

 

[passball]

With all due respect 31550, I think I recall that you had a list of questions you wanted clarified…. even if they’ve been asked previously ( and often with conflicting answers) let’s ask them Again. … and check the variances.
Here’s some I’d ask:
* did William sleep wth FF
* did William wet the bed
* what time did William wake up
* what time did FD wake up ( did FD sleep with FM)
* where / when that morning did the children both watch the ‘show’ on FF’s phone
* did the children ride their bikes that morning, and if so, when ?
* were they under adult supervision & if so, by whom
* did they crash their bikes ? Where ? any injuries ? scraped knees, arms etc
* did the children shower & dress before or after bike ride / breakfast
* who prepared breakfast
* did FF eat breakfast with them
* what time did FF leave
* did FM take children & their colouring gear to the deck after breakfast, while FGM washed up
* what happened to her hand ? What time ?
* last photo taken at 9.37 am ( was it the last ? There were more photos that haven’t been made public )
* was it difficult to use the camera with her cut hand
* after photo did William immediately go off playing on the grass while FD staying doing her colouring (approx 9.40 am)
* did FM & FGM then go inside out of ear shot to have the discussion about William’s behaviour
* did FM & FGM stay together during that time
* where was FGM when FM said to affect of ‘ its vey quiet, I can’t hear him’
* where was FD at that stage
* did FM ask FD if she knew where William was / where she last saw him / what he’d been doing
* who cared for FD while FM was looking for William
* did FM tell FD she was going for a drive and to stay with FGM - do not leave the house !
Etc etc

Good questions, and that's just to start off with.
Did they do an in-depth interview like this?
If she was asked these questions back them we wouldn't be asking them now

 

[Underarrest_]

Does anyone know who’s idea it was to leave for the trip to Kendall early?

 

[shorsky]

Wallace52, when you wonder re ‘SC: 'Did you decide to hide his body rather than let your mother feel a sense of responsibility for that?'
FM: 'No'.

Are you thinking SC is suggesting FM doesn’t want FGM to feel responsible for William’s death because she has a house with a dangerously high verandah ?

Well, I guess they were trying any thing in their attempts to get her to say something, but I think that’s a long shot of a suggestion. As if your mind would go to that if you found a badly injured or deceased child, any more than it would go to hiding him, imo.

Anyway I don’t subscribe to him climbing up and accidentally falling off that verandah, never have. Plus the police dug up everything under & around (wonder what the landscape bill was to repair it all!), they had luminal everywhere, found no trace.

Do we know for sure if the last forensic check of FGM car turned up anything ?
Could be why the question about drop sheets. Maybe they found traces of drop sheet material in the car. … but if William was wrapped in a drop sheet, where is it ? He would not have been left in a drop sheet !

Are there mines or gorges close by ? There is a Batar Creek Quarry, perhaps by the searched Middle Brother Forest.

 

[shorsky]

I read a post by yourself where you made two references for the drive being after the FM saw Anne Marie Sharpley.

Not sure how to link it here. It is from the previous thread and is post 3822 from March 2022. Maybe this link will work. Yes, it does. I just tried it.

Current - Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include: Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs) Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty 2 x charges of assault...

www.bigfooty.com

The problem here is Time.

It’s my understanding that AMS testified that FM came to her at 10.40 am - which would tie in with AMS hearing FF calling, but it allows insufficient time for FM to be running up and down Benaroon, meeting Lyndene Heslop who I think had arrived home about 10.30, searching in long grass and hearing a bird that sounded like a Scream ..
then back to get FGM car and going off on a drive To ? & Back, before making the 000 call. ..
which would have involved checking with FF if found, deciding to make the call, then going into the house to get the Phone ( unless was already with her as questioned) All of that from her return home would take 5 mins minimum.
And AMS was with her when she made the call, and als with her on Benaroon
AMS has not said that FM went for a drive

But FM said she went for a drive - there is no reason to say that if she didn’t ( there is a reason to say it if she did, in case she was seen. And she thinks she was seen by a truck driver )

Personally I feel FM had been for the drive Before she raced up to AMS, who she saw was having a smoke in her front yard. … but it’s not been said that AMS was aware that she took a drive, and surely she would have been asked that at initial inquest tranche
Noting it’s also not been said that AMS noticed FF return home but surely she must have.

I do think the vehicle the Crabbe’s heard was FM - I can imagine her in a hurry, reversing out of that driveway (do we know for sure which garage / car port FGM car was in), possibly on to edge of road, stopping, changing gears & taking off quite fast.
I think this could have happened as early as 9.50 am, which would leave her 40 mins to be home in time for FF estimated arrival ( I think he arrived 10.35 am - FM spoke to him & then she went down to Benaroon & met AMS)

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The problem here is Time.

It’s my understanding that AMS testified that FM came to her at 10.40 am - which would tie in with AMS hearing FF calling, but it allows insufficient time for FM to be running up and down Benaroon, meeting Lyndene Heslop who I think had arrived home about 10.30, searching in long grass and hearing a bird that sounded like a Scream ..
then back to get FGM car and going off on a drive To ? & Back, before making the 000 call. ..
which would have involved checking with FF if found, deciding to make the call, then going into the house to get the Phone ( unless was already with her as questioned) All of that from her return home would take 5 mins minimum.
And AMS was with her when she made the call, and als with her on Benaroon
AMS has not said that FM went for a drive

But FM said she went for a drive - there is no reason to say that if she didn’t ( there is a reason to say it if she did, in case she was seen. And she thinks she was seen by a truck driver )

Personally I feel FM had been for the drive Before she raced up to AMS, who she saw was having a smoke in her front yard. … but it’s not been said that AMS was aware that she took a drive, and surely she would have been asked that at initial inquest tranche
Noting it’s also not been said that AMS noticed FF return home but surely she must have.

I do think the vehicle the Crabbe’s heard was FM - I can imagine her in a hurry, reversing out of that driveway (do we know for sure which garage / car port FGM car was in), possibly on to edge of road, stopping, changing gears & taking off quite fast.
I think this could have happened as early as 9.50 am, which would leave the 40 mins to be home in time for FF estimated arrival ( I think he arrived 10.35 am - FM spoke to him & then she went down to Benaroon & met AMS)

Didn't they hear tyres on gravel? That means the lower driveway you assume. So the car was driven from top carport out and to lower gravel driveway. I agree with Kurve that this seems to imitate W being collected from the area beneath the balcony.

I don't think it's remotely conceivable that the period from 10.30 and beyond was used for the car trip. If you are being secretive why would you announce the hoax and then take off? illogical. No..I think it's earlier.

I'm intrigued by SFR identifying 10.08 to 10.13 as the gap. How was this determined is my question?..Was there data pings of phones indicating she was on the road that that time? Seems awful precise given instead that the Crabbes weren't precise. Then you have the mysterious question from CC about FM having ALL phones with her. Did they have data pings for FGM phone to determine that too? So possibly identify FM on the road AND indentify she took the FGM phone too. Possible.

I know in Part 1 someone did a detailed analysis of tower triangulation. i can't recall if it precisely triangulated location or merely area.

 

[31550]

Didn't they hear tyres on gravel?

Crabb's never said gravel.