Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

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Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:
  • Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
  • 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
  • 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
  • Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
  • Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty
TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:


BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR :rolleyes:
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?
 
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IMO
Right, I'll find it but I can't see the point of them going back there if it had already been thoroughly searched.
it would all depend how significant the previous search/es may have been and what 'specialists' they may have had (or not had).

A few days ago while catching up reading the thread, there was a bit of chatter about a drop-sheet, but I can't seem to find my way back to that. I was interested to know where that reference came from? Are you aware of this discussion Kurve? Thankyou.
 
Paul Savage also saw two cars in that spot, he thinks it was the previous day. Before WT disappeared.

I think it is very possible that the man at 35 Benaroon had visitors who parked there. But we know so little about that person. Other than he left town about 3 weeks after WT disappeared. He is the man that FGM thought might have something to do with WT's disappearance.
First I have heard of that.

Do you have a link? to Mr Savage seeing two cars in the same spot on Benaroon on the Thursday?
Anne Maree was pretty sure there were no cars on the Friday.

FGM had lots of suspects. Ducks in a line. Two repair men (incidentally FGM had organised them to visit the house) the man that comes and goes that is creepy, then later Savage gets added. Needed to keep police busy. Again all IMO.
 
I’d assume a kidnapper isn’t going to slam a car door.
It’s possible to close a door quietly.
Just close it mostly then pull shut.
If there were two people, hold it shut then close it a bit down the street.

If they got close enough, if William trusted someone enough to be within arms reach, he could have been pulled in through the window.

Which reminds me the FF said when he got home, he saw the FM and he wound the window down in his vehicle so he could hear her better.

So he must done that before turning the ignition off.
 

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He would have been seen multiple times on the tennis club CCTV if that was the case, wouldn't he?
You can get out of Kendall by going into Main Street go up hill at intersection go past high school go towards Herons Creek right hand turn past tip? and then on to highway then head back to Lakewood Village
 
IMO

it would all depend how significant the previous search/es may have been and what 'specialists' they may have had (or not had).

A few days ago while catching up reading the thread, there was a bit of chatter about a drop-sheet, but I can't seem to find my way back to that. I was interested to know where that reference came from? Are you aware of this discussion Kurve? Thankyou.

You can use the Search feature and enter 'dropsheet', select This thread to search under.
 
No it's not.
My gut and head is saying the FM is involved.
I think it's the FPS actions and reactions aren't stting right with me, and at the same time I'm probably wrong on everything.
Its a 1,000 piece puzzle with only 999 pieces.
And my previous comment. not just pieces missing bu somehow pieces from another puzzle have ended on the table.
 
You can get out of Kendall by going into Main Street go up hill at intersection go past high school go towards Herons Creek right hand turn past tip? and then on to highway then head back to Lakewood Village
Maybe you could, but would you?
 
Did William wet the bed and FF got angry, especially knowing the washing machine was broken and he would have to sleep in that bed that night?

He made William take off his pull up. Is this when FM comes in and dresses him in the Spiderman outfit, and even then she had trouble to do with a tshirt underneath?

Maybe that set the FF off.

He didn't have his meds either and according to FGM he REALLY needed them, maybe they helped to keep him calm.

Maybe FF had words with FM and told her to deal with it
She then phones Spedding first thing to try to get it fixed TODAY.

This could also have been what set FM off.

Then there was the fight over toys, not throwing the dice correctly, not doing what she wants him to, all in front of her mother. The embarrassment.

Wonder what the punishment was for wetting the bed?
I know it is good to run through different scenarios, but all this what if William did this or that, Or what if FM lost her temper. It has all been discussed before.... No evidence. No proof. Not in statements. As far as we have been told everyone was happy that morning. Does not add to solving what happened.

How do you know there was a fight over toys etc. This is a narrative and is alleged by fosters.
 
And my previous comment. not just pieces missing bu somehow pieces from another puzzle have ended on the table.
Indeed. There's also a nice picture on the box which happens to match some of the extra pieces, but the picture on the box is not actually the solution. And the picture on the box cannot be created with the pieces we have either.
 
LRitz re: travel days. No I think they were already packed. Four people and cat arrangements. For approximately three days. Bikes clothes etc. what days did FFC work? She would have to tell work she would not be there. Did she work that Thursday normally? If not why was William in day care? I think they planned on the Thursday but we’re apprehensive about letting Mother and rest of family know they were coming early. And did not want the kids blabbing so pretended it was a surprise. IMO
 
Some of the details within the timeline may be challenged, but there are a few "immovables" IMO.

Looking at what the Crabbs said, it is almost certain:
  • because of their regular routine that they almost certainly returned home shortly after 9:30
  • they both reported hearing a car after they returned (Peter thought soon after they returned, Sharelle thought some time after they returned) We don't know how long but if Peter estimated 10 minutes and Sharelle estimated 40 minutes, it's most likely in-between or close to one of these times.
  • they think they probably heard the same car because they think they remarked "must be the postie" or similar
  • police have ruled out this being the postie (it seems)
  • they think they heard the car stop momentarily and return from whence it came - at least the sounds they heard are consistent with this
  • they do not seem to have mentioned 'gravel' and they do not say this car went past their house at any point
  • when interviewed by police a car did in fact drive past the Crabbs and Mrs Crabb heard it and pointed it out to police - confirming her ability to hear a vehicle on Benaroon from her house
  • neither of them report hearing any other vehicles coming and going during this period (9:30 to 10:30)

I don't know why anyone would want to discredit the Crabbs. They heard a car, probably the same car. It probably turned around in the FGM driveway or very nearby.

It is widely accepted that William disappeared after 9:37 (photo) and before 10:30 (FF return).
It is widely accepted that William left Benaroon Drive (if not the FGM property itself) in a vehicle.

It is widely accepted that very few vehicles ever go to the top section of Benaroon Drive. Those that do are either residents, or people visiting or doing business with residents. Vehicles can access the fire trail as well, but then they would need to drive on the gravel - they would probably make a different sound to a vehicle stopping and turning around.
Police asked residents about their movements and whether they had any vehicles come and go at this time. So all known vehicles are accounted for, except for the one the Crabbs heard. It cannot be attributed to the postie, or anyone visiting someone in Benaroon Drive, or any of the other residents.

There is (only) one known vehicle which may have left Benaroon Drive during this period. The FGM vehicle, driven (allegedly) by the FM. It is possible this is what was heard by the Crabbs - either going out or coming back (or maybe even both!).

The other possibility is that the Crabbs did not hear FGMs car at all on either its exit or re-entry, but heard another car entirely - the one which abducted William. It just happened to drive up Benaroon Drive for no apparent reason, stop momentarily, grab William (without a door opening or closing being heard) and drive back off. What are the chances of a random opportunistic child abductor driving up Benaroon at that exact time that William ventured to the edge of the property, so that they could quickly exit the vehicle, grab him in a few seconds, and drive off without a door closing?

So which is the more likely scenario?


If it was the FM then what accounts for the momentary stopping they heard? If she placed a dead W in the car what caused hesitation? Was it pausing at the driveway exit perhaps?

If Crabbes know the sound of vehicles coming and going can they also distinguish between residents coming and going from driveway and a car on the street?
 
Were there texts deleted from the FMs phone on the day?
Would they be able to tell if the landline called FF that morning?
 
A car was heard. One car.
Premeditated has been ruled out by police as very few people knew William would be there, and those that did all have alibis according to police.
Random is of course possible but very unlikely given location and time of day and short window.
Sunday drivers (well, Friday morning) - it's a dead-end street. Yeah, could have been someone who took a wrong turn and found the dead end so turned around, but why haven't they come forward and identified themselves?
There are known pedos in the area and SFR probably interviewed all the known ones to eliminate them.
An unknown pedo had to be in exactly the right place at the right time, and also has to be very cunning and skilful to not be seen and to get away with this, and any subsequent offences for 10 years. I suggest that anyone suspected of paedophilia in the area in the last 10 years would have been profiled for this case too.
It’s the pedos that haven’t been caught, people need to be aware of.
 

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I'm a bit confused.
Was the FF at Lakewood or Lake Cathie?
He mentions both and there is a Woolies and Khodarys at both.
I thought he said Lake Cathie first, where he had his meeting.
Freudian slip perhaps
 
If it was the FM then what accounts for the momentary stopping they heard? If she placed a dead W in the car what caused hesitation? Was it pausing at the driveway exit perhaps?

If Crabbes know the sound of vehicles coming and going can they also distinguish between residents coming and going from driveway and a car on the street?
Doing a three point turn, reversing out of an unfamiliar driveway in an unfamiliar vehicle? Stopping momentarily to change from reverse into first/drive? Stopping momentarily to look back at William lying on the back seat?
 
It was a relative who was there on Thursday. FGM was recovering from an illness. Others were helping to take care of her. I do not have a link as proof of who was there. I will have to go back through notes to see how I know that, when I have more time I will do that.
Sorry that sounds wrong to me. Please send a link or reference.

FGM walkthrough talks specific about Thursday. FGM says, that she goes to community centre(I guess witnessed), Laureiton for shopping and home, Rests in afternoon. No mention of visitors.
She couldn't have been that sick if she drove to Laurieton, 16 kms away. What is the name of the relative.

Things get said and then copied as fact. It is better to check notes first before the post when you have more time.
 
Any normal person would drive past the tennis club (IMO).
I picked up a (possible) way to get between the 2 locations without going past the tennis club's cctv. That was through the showground (all depending on whether the gate was locked at the entrance from Batar Creek Road) and whether a local could explain if it was possible to drive over the railway line after exiting the showground - there is access to Orari Street and if you travel north along that, you end up having to pass the Kendall tennis club if you turn right at an intersection. However, was there access through from Orari and in behind the swimming pool to get across the railway line? Or perhaps between the showground and the swimming pool?

Attached is a google earth shot, 48 is in lower left corner - the red bed. The aerial view is from January 2016.

There also appears to be a 'sign' of a track if you turn south from the showground/orari street - purple highlight, and a 'sign' there may be unofficial access over the railway line - light colour patches, which would then possibly enable the driver to drive north on Railway St then turn right to cross the river and avoid the cctv at the kendall tennis club which is the yellow highlight.

Advice from a local if these side-trips would have been possible would be appreciated.
 

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This is a long shot but could FF have forgotten his script and gone back to the house. Lakewood is only a short drive away and has the only/closest chemist that I can see.
Why did he not mention this?
He said he left around 9 and went to Lakewood. He was asked did he stop, and he said no. You think getting some of the way and coming back would have been sort of a stop. He was up for about 3 hours before he allegedly left the house at allegedly around 9. What on earth was he doing all morning that he then forgot the script.
 
I know it is good to run through different scenarios, but all this what if William did this or that, Or what if FM lost her temper. It has all been discussed before.... No evidence. No proof. Not in statements. As far as we have been told everyone was happy that morning. Does not add to solving what happened.

How do you know there was a fight over toys etc. This is a narrative and is alleged by fosters.
The only part I believe was the fight over the toy sounded like a great toy.
Definitely do not believe the silver service breakfast bit.
 
Yes very common when partner lived there
In that case it would be quite telling for the FF to use two different routes for the two trips. Excuse could be the roadworks? But that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Why leave this out of his narrative?
 
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