Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Wallace52]

William is difficult.
A difficult child who is also a foster child.
Maybe the "terrible Twos" turned into the worse than terrible threes. His behaviour could have been getting worse rather than better. Discipline was not working. Maybe the lock out was just to have a moments peace.
He had a bruise to his face. Allegedly caused by accidental fall.
Biological mother thought he was looking thin.
FM voices concern that she is not managing but maybe gets no support from FACS.
Travel to FGM house in Kendall. Possibility that not everything was as happy that morning as reported in the fosters narratives.
William vanishes.

Discipline is one thing, but trauma based practice is another consideration. I don’t think the foster parents had enough training. The FM was clearly out of her depth.

 

[Wallace52]

Maybe concussion from the claimed bike fall that morning.

But not from falling out of a climbing tree that morning.

Thats a possibility.

And we know William was known to ride bikes without a helmet on.

(That’s been documented and shared with the public via “home video”.)

And are we to believe that the bike riding even happened that morning? Where is the evidence?

It’s not like the police checked the driveway for bike tracks or skids, or checked the bushes/shrubs or leaf scatter patterns to see where William fell from his bike. Did they?!

 

[Wallace52]

William is difficult.
A difficult child who is also a foster child.
Maybe the "terrible Twos" turned into the worse than terrible threes. His behaviour could have been getting worse rather than better. Discipline was not working. Maybe the lock out was just to have a moments peace.

IMO: The FM should have hired a nanny and/or organised some respite care instead of locking him out of the house or letting him run around on a property that was semi-rural and unfenced, with access to a tall balcony and furniture on that balcony.

She had the smarts and the means to organise some additional support, but I think perhaps the fosters didn’t want to spend their own money on getting the parenting support and respite that they needed.

Some people are frugal.

Just my opinion.

IMHO, FACS should have never granted to multi visit pass / consent for William and L to stay at 48 Benaroon drive.

The balcony is just too dangerous, imo.

 

[js47]

You could imagine a three year old over excited racing along the veranda up onto the chair the railing trying to hold on to the wall and over. I had a very young child climbing on the out side of my same height verandah I heard him and nearly died when I realised. There was a chair right next to the rail at FGM house.

 

[Wallace52]

I had a very young child climbing on the out side of my same height verandah I heard him and nearly died when I realised.

Oh my goodness, that is terrifying.

Yeah there was a chair near to the railing at the FGM house and a stool too, I think.

 

[js47]

OMG William was being breast fed?
Such a close personal basic need to an infant. Even if he was exposed to a situation that was not safe or ideal to him he was denied what he perceived as comfort. Babies hear, see, smell, feel you. It would be like detoxing.

 

[Sammy 72]

hi does anyone happen to know if the fparents were at Kendall between the dates of the deleted text messages from July to 1st of August?

 

[Wallace52]

OMG William was being breast fed?
Such a close personal basic need to an infant. Even if he was exposed to a situation that was not safe or ideal to him he was denied what he perceived as comfort. Babies hear, see, smell, feel you. It would be like detoxing.

Imagine that feeling from the biological mother’s point of view too - it is reportedly very painful to stop breastfeeding “cold turkey,” and it can cause health issues such as mastitis.

Let alone having your infant torn from you by child services and the emotional pain the biological mother and biological father must have gone through from that.

Some people say William was 7 months of age when he was taken. Some say that he was 9 months old. Either way, losing that maternal attachment instantly must have been traumatic for him.

IMO

 

[Wallace52]

hi does anyone happen to know if the fparents were at Kendall between the dates of the deleted text messages from July to 1st of August?

No, they were not.

 

[Sammy 72]

No, they were not.

Thanks Wallace52 is there any proof of that?

 

[Wallace52]

Thanks Wallace52 is there any proof of that?

Yeah, the SFR would have records of their whereabouts during this time. They went on a family trip to Bali, and then the foster dad also went on a nice little trip (sans kids and wife) out to the bush, but not Kendall way, around 9 hours west (ish) of Sydney.

A little place out near Burke and Cobar way. Not en route to Kendall at all.

He took the nice new family vehicle - the same one they eventually drove to Kendall in September, so all of those trips would be traceable using the inbuilt GPS of that vehicle, not to mention his social media posts and his mobile phone pings from that time.

Poor FM was left alone in Sydney with the kids, which might have pi**ed her off a bit.

Work hard, play hard. Like so many suburban “up-and-coming” North Shore dads - that was the FF’s thing.

 

[Wallace52]

Whoever first applied that phrase to the investigation deserves a medal

I know, and also the term Strike Force Rossan. Epic.

 

[Wallace52]

My understanding is she called from FGM's cordless phone, not her own mobile phone). Can anyone confirm this? The 000 operator already has the address, so I assume it's the address associated with FGM's phone. This indicates FM doesn't have her mobile phone on her when she calls 000. But she speaks to the 000 operator from the street or driveway (mentions that a neighbour is with her helping her look). I guess the cordless phone works out there. So she went inside the house to get the cordless phone. Why not get her own phone? Possibly because it's turned off so it's quicker to get FGM's phone and call from that.

She did call 000 from the cordless landline phone. I don’t think she had her mobile on her all day up until that point. There’s no call records to suggest she was using it.

Where was the FM’s mobile phone on the morning that William went missing?

 

[stormbird]

Wallace52's reply to my question (which previously was here in this post) was deleted without explanation, so I've edited this post to delete my question as well.

 

[Awakening]

IMO It sounds like William could be very hard work at times.

Sounds like a typical active 3 yo boy to me. Source: my own two sons

 

[Awakening]

She had the smarts and the means to organise some additional support, but I think perhaps the fosters didn’t want to spend their own money on getting the parenting support and respite that they needed.

Some people are frugal.

Just my opinion.

IMHO, FACS should have never granted to multi visit pass / consent for William and L to stay at 48 Benaroon drive.

The balcony is just too dangerous, imo.

I can’t believe it was passed with apparently no safety mechanisms put in place.

I would have been a nervous wreck with my boys there at William’s age.

 

[BFew]

IMHO, FACS should have never granted to multi visit pass / consent for William and L to stay at 48 Benaroon drive.

The balcony is just too dangerous, imo.

But the danger to William would have been mitigated by William being afraid of heights (according to SD).

Neighbour still certain he saw William Tyrrell on the day he vanished

He claims a little boy - who he now recognises as William - was unrestrained in the back seat of the Landcruiser, still wearing a Spider-Man suit, about 10.45am the morning he disappeared.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'One of the theories police were considering was that he fell from his foster grandmother's balcony and tragically died.

For a little boy so afraid of heights his foster mother couldn't even place him in a tree on his own, many in town have questioned whether this theory holds and weight.'

 

[31550]

I can’t believe it was passed with apparently no safety mechanisms put in place.

I would have been a nervous wreck with my boys there at William’s age.

We had a balcony/deck not as high as that one. To be passed as suitable the sliding glass doors which accessed the deck needed to have childproof locks (high deadbolts), and also stickers on the glass at eye level. The outside access to the deck was also required to be child-proof locked. The agency were pretty picky - insisted on a firescreen in front of a fake log fire!

Since our own child was toddler age, we had not issue in complying but some of their 'suggestions' seemed over the top. It's not like we were going to let toddlers run around unsupervised.

 

[Sammy 72]

She did call 000 from the cordless landline phone. I don’t think she had her mobile on her all day up until that point. There’s no call records to suggest she was using it.

Where was the FM’s mobile phone on the morning that William went missing?

when did she see the text from her partner saying be there in 5, as she had said it was 10.30 and why wouldn't she of taken her phone when she drove her mothers car looking for him

 

[31550]

when did she see the text from her partner saying be there in 5, as she had said it was 10.30 and why wouldn't she of taken her phone when she drove her mothers car looking for him

Nobody can answer those questions. Not even FM.

 

[Wallace52]

We had a balcony/deck not as high as that one. To be passed as suitable the sliding glass doors which accessed the deck needed to have childproof locks (high deadbolts), and also stickers on the glass at eye level. The outside access to the deck was also required to be child-proof locked. The agency were pretty picky - insisted on a firescreen in front of a fake log fire!

Since our own child was toddler age, we had not issue in complying but some of their 'suggestions' seemed over the top. It's not like we were going to let toddlers run around unsupervised.

Thats really good that your agency had those precautions in place. Better to be safe than sorry, I would say.

Even the best parent has to go to the bathroom sometimes, so it’s always best just to have all of the safety equipment in place at all times.

That is all it takes, two mins for an accident to happen.

I wonder at which times the Fm went to the bathroom on the day W went missing? And then who supervised William and his sister when she was in the bathroom?

 

[Wallace52]

But the danger to William would have been mitigated by William being afraid of heights (according to SD).

Neighbour still certain he saw William Tyrrell on the day he vanished

He claims a little boy - who he now recognises as William - was unrestrained in the back seat of the Landcruiser, still wearing a Spider-Man suit, about 10.45am the morning he disappeared.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'One of the theories police were considering was that he fell from his foster grandmother's balcony and tragically died.

For a little boy so afraid of heights his foster mother couldn't even place him in a tree on his own, many in town have questioned whether this theory holds and weight.'

Well that’s just a load of BS isn’t it.

I’ve seen pictures of the kid in trees.

But the danger to William would have been mitigated by William being afraid of heights (according to SD).

What about Lindsay? Was the danger to her mitigated by a twin fear of heights?

Phobias and fears are not a hazard mitigation strategy.

 

[Wallace52]

I can’t believe it was passed with apparently no safety mechanisms put in place.

I would have been a nervous wreck with my boys there at William’s age.

I can’t believe they were stupid enough to leave the side wooden access gate to the balcony open during the FF police walkthrough interview.

They could have at least pretended like they cared about the safety of the access to that balcony.

Were they just not thinking?

 

[js47]

They didn’t need to shut the gate because the damage was already done according to the police wasn’t it?

 

[stormbird]

when did she see the text from her partner saying be there in 5, as she had said it was 10.30 and why wouldn't she of taken her phone when she drove her mothers car looking for him

Caroline Overington talked about the text in her podcast (but didn't explain where this information came from):

"Unable to find William, she [FM] ran back to the house to get her phone. She was hoping to find a message from the foster father saying something like 'Hey! What's going on? I've just found William wandering out the front!' Because William was in the habit of looking out for his foster dad's car. And there was a text, but it didn't say 'Hey, I've got William!' it said 'Home in 5!'
William's foster dad has told police that he used Siri to send that message, and that's been verified.
The foster mum ran out, onto the driveway, just as the foster dad was pulling in."

- from Nowhere Child, episode 2: "More than William", 26 July 2019 on Listen Notes, from about 5 minutes but the time varies; transcript by me.

And FM talked about the phone when she was at the inquest:

From Searching for Spiderman, 2020, page 167 (about the inquest hearing when FM was being examined by Peter O'Brien, the lawyer representing Bill Spedding):

"Anna [pseudonym for FM] said she didn't make many calls that day. Her mobile phone was in the house while she was out in the yard and on the verandah. She explained she wasn't diligent in checking messages and doesn't remember whether police checked messages left on any of the phones that day."