Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Awakening]

LIVED THERE It would be hard for the family if they follow this not foxes so much .

I’ve tried to tone it down as much as I can without going into details about what can happen when there are multiple foxes in an area.

But people keeping making stupid posts.

 

[passball]

The tapes that led a judge to conclude there's no pattern of that behaviour? Most of us have been less than perfect parents at times - not you by the sounds of it - and his foster parents had a more stressful parenting experience than most. I've never struck a child but I've been less than perfect in other ways, they did the wrong thing but that says nothing about them hiding the death of their child. For 10 years. While lobbying for a million dollar reward.

Gary must be truly besotted with an old married woman to throw away his career! And her husband!

I would say there is a behaviour of a pattern

I feel I have hit a personal nerve here.
I never said he was besotted, and not in a sexual way either.
I meant he is taken in with her narrative, she's a great storyteller from watching videos of her.

How old is Jubelin, suggesting he's a Leonardo DiCaprio??
How old is too old?

 

[Underarrest_]

Who did the editing

Noooo! Need evidence. Gary Jubelin’s ex said he even answered his work phone when having sex.
Don’t believe he would cover a crime, especially of a 3 year old boy.

 

[Kurve]

Doubtful. Foxes tend to live solitary lives and usually have about a 1km radius to themselves. They do get together to mate, and a pair may stay together for a while. There will only be one male. Other female offspring might hang around mum and dad for a little while but they don't form packs or units.

 

[Wallace52]

Deputy coroner has an aversion to asking questions of witnesses. Would rather make everyone sit for hours watching videos of other people asking questions and then telling everyone what there is no evidence of.

I don’t blame her! With some of the worst witnesses ever, who’s to say they will bring the learned Deputy Coroner any closer to the truth?

Perhaps Jubelin isn't privy to any evidence against the foster parents that SFR has collected.

I’d say he wouldn’t stopped receiving case updates a while ago. IMHO

 

[Lady O]

Looks like UK. They will even go into a house there and take a baby!! Not here, though.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Ok a few things that might help , taken from inquest testimony that I was in court for.

Vehicle Crabbs heard

The Crabb's both heard a vehicle, do a u turn- both thought sounded like the postie & they were collecting the Miller's mail as they were away ( no mention of gravel )

They arrived home about 09:30-09:35 ( confirmed by police , they had used a loyalty card that morning just before going home)

Mr Crabb said he thought he heard it approx 10 mins after getting home
Mrs Crabb said she thought she heard it about 40mins after getting home. She gave evidence that they were sitting on their back deck " "Sitting out back & heard a car, thought postman. Car came up reasonably fast, as postie does, did u turn & continued on it's way"

Detective Laura Beacroft did alot of work with the Crabb's to determine the time & if it was possible to hear what they said the heard.

Per her evidence, the Crabb's provided information about how sound travels from vehicles when they were on their back verandah, 150 - 200mtrs away from Benaroon Drive.

She did a re-enactment & determined that it was likely that they did hear a car & that the best way they could describe the vehicle was that it sounded like the vehicle driven by the local postie at the time.

Truck Driver Peter

On Wed 6/11/24 when the truck driver Peter gave is evidence, it was mentioned 3 times about the CCTV times from the Kendall Tennis club CCTV & it was stated it was 14mins slow & the times were being read from statements.

Those times were

Arrived in Kendall near Op-Shop @ 09:27 ( real time ) ( CCTV time 09:13 & it was said in court that the CCTV was 14mins slow )

Drives of from Kendall heading to Batar Creek Rd / Cob & Co Rd @ 10:00 ( real time ) ( CCTV time 09:47 ) edited as had times wrong way around

Leaving Kendall @ 10:53 ( real time ) ( CCTV time 10:39 ) - Time edit by me as had both times @ 10:53

Hope that helps?

You have posted in this thread 128 times.
I don't recall you ever posting the times that Peter passed the tennis club CCTV.
I skimmed over your posts again and couldn't find it.
I am sorry I am so stupid and for wasting your time but would you mind please linking the post with these times for me and anyone else who might have missed them among your 128 posts.

Sure, here you go. You "liked" the post at the time.

 

[Wallace52]

I would say there is a behaviour of a pattern

I feel I have hit a personal nerve here.
I never said he was besotted, and not in a sexual way either.
I meant he is taken in with her narrative, she's a great storyteller from watching videos of her.

How old is Jubelin, suggesting he's a Leonardo DiCaprio??
How old is too old?

I want to say he’s maybe 60?

 

[Wallace52]

Looks like UK. They will even go into a house there and take a baby!! Not here, though.

Kendall foxes behave differently to UK foxes. The Kendall foxes are very respectful.

 

[js47]

Lady O you seem to know the area I think there might be a track from Benaroon Drive to the Camden Haven river. Do you know if this was walkable and how far?

 

[passball]

I want to say he’s maybe 60?

So roughly same age.
I have no idea what sort of women/men he might go for and I don't care to be honest.
But jason-recliner obviously thinks she 'weathered'

 

[js47]

Underarrest the area is so beautiful. It is also a long drive from Sydney there is a super highway now but I am not sure ten years ago how much was done. I would imagine because they only had a few days they tried to squeeze an extra day there. I think the FM wanted to look at the things her Mother was going to get rid of.

 

[31550]

Sure, here you go. You "liked" the post at the time.

So Peter was on BCR between 10am and 10:53am.
This spans the time FM said she also drove on BCR.
But it seems Peter didn't notice FM.
And FM doesn't seem to have noticed the black Camry or grey Ute.
If FM was coming back from the riding school AFTER talking to Anne Maree (10:40) she would have been stuck behind Peter and not made it back to make the 000 call.
So she must have made the drive well before, to be home when FF returned at 10.30 and to meet him in the driveway.
So her drive was around 10.15 or even earlier.
Peter does not see a semitrailer coming the other way during his drive to Michelle's place?
So the drive was while Peter was at Michelle's place, and Peter missed FM and the semi.
Therefore the drive is quite early - too early for the FM to have done any ’looking for William'. He wasn't missing.

 

[Lady O]

Lady O you seem to know the area I think there might be a track from Benaroon Drive to the Camden Haven river. Do you know if this was walkable and how far?

No I don't know the area, been there once. Easy to find on maps. It's probably a couple of k's at the most.

 

[Kurve]

Perhaps, as he's an experienced homicide detective, bugging them wasn't the entire extent of his investigation into them.

He bugged their car after a police interview to listen to their conversation after it. That was it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

You have posted in this thread 128 times.
I don't recall you ever posting the times that Peter passed the tennis club CCTV.
I skimmed over your posts again and couldn't find it.
I am sorry I am so stupid and for wasting your time but would you mind please linking the post with these times for me and anyone else who might have missed them among your 128 posts.

It would be very handy to know yes

 

[31550]

Kendall foxes behave differently to UK foxes. The Kendall foxes are very respectful.

I don't believe there are any documented accounts of foxes carrying off children alive or dead or even consuming dead human flesh.
Happy to be enlightened.

 

[Kurve]

The tapes that led a judge to conclude there's no pattern of that behaviour? Most of us have been less than perfect parents at times - not you by the sounds of it - and his foster parents had a more stressful parenting experience than most. I've never struck a child but I've been less than perfect in other ways, they did the wrong thing but that says nothing about them hiding the death of their child. For 10 years. While lobbying for a million dollar reward.

Gary must be truly besotted with an old married woman to throw away his career! And her husband!

The article linked in here that suggests there was no pattern of violence is paywalled but interpreted by a poster in here as the judge concluding.

That's very different to the defence suggesting there wasn't a pattern demonstrated in the recordings just prior to sentencing and the judge accepting that without the prosecution challenging.

For a cleanskin with no priors, she still received a decent penalty with a lot of hours of community service.

If the prosecution had wanted to go after her for more, they'd have fought for it and challenged the assertion by the defence there was no pattern.

IMO the prosecution probably gave her a break.

As to Gary being besotted, he's got his stars in his eyes its so obvious.

 

[Underarrest_]

Underarrest the area is so beautiful. It is also a long drive from Sydney there is a super highway now but I am not sure ten years ago how much was done. I would imagine because they only had a few days they tried to squeeze an extra day there. I think the FM wanted to look at the things her Mother was going to get rid of.

Yes it is a beautiful area.
People make snap decisions.
Maybe nothing else.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

It would be very handy to know yes

I agree, that's why I supplied the information.

But seems it's maybe not important as some people don't seem to remember reading it.

 

[Wallace52]

For a cleanskin with no priors, she still received a decent penalty with a lot of hours of community service.

Kurve

How many hours did she get?

Also, Magistrate McIntyre was very supportive of open justice in hearing those cases, and she was very generous to Prosecutor Marsh and withstood a lot of pressure from tendency expert John Stratton SC (for the FM) and Barrister Phillip English (for the FF) to have the covert recordings admitted heard as evidence. It makes sense to me that McIntyre made that attempt to provide balance and some concessions to the FM in her sentencing remarks, because she has to be as fair and balanced as possible. IMO.

I observed some of those proceedings at Parramatta and it was nail-biting watching Stratton and the Magistrate go back and forth.


Magistrate Susan McIntyre rejected Mr Stratton's argument, saying the covert recordings - while somewhat unusual in their availability for the case - were credible and objective evidence.

"Ultimately the evidence in a situation like this speaks for itself," she said.

Ms McIntyre said she could not consider them merely throw-away comments or things the foster mother said without meaning for them to have an impact.

"It simply flies in the face of the words that were used that I would construe them in that way," she said.

The magistrate ordered written submissions from the parties before returning to court in December with plans to deliver a judgment in February.



https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/crime/tears-as-child-taken-from-tyrrell-foster-mums-care-c-11840294

 

[31550]

I agree, that's why I supplied the information.

But seems it's maybe not important as some people don't seem to remember reading it.

The problem was it was embedded inside a lot of other similar information and it wasn't clear that these were the tennis club CCTV times for Peter. But thanks for relinking. I have responded above with some observations.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

The problem was it was embedded inside a lot of other similar information and it wasn't clear that these were the tennis club CCTV times for Peter. But thanks for relinking. I have responded above with some observations.

What was not clear?

Truck Driver Peter

On Wed 6/11/24 when the truck driver Peter gave is evidence, it was mentioned 3 times about the CCTV times from the Kendall Tennis club CCTV & it was stated it was 14mins slow & the times were being read from statements.

Those times were

Arrived in Kendall near Op-Shop @ 09:27 ( real time ) ( CCTV time 09:13 & it was said in court that the CCTV was 14mins slow )

Drives of from Kendall heading to Batar Creek Rd / Cob & Co Rd @ 10:00 ( real time ) ( CCTV time 09:47 ) edited as had times wrong way around

Leaving Kendall @ 10:53 ( real time ) ( CCTV time 10:39 ) - Time edit by me as had both times @ 10:53

 

[Kurve]

Wild dogs, often dumped and they find each other. They're around.

One of my kids spends a lot of time in the bush, he's bought medium sized dogs home in the past. The terrier cross was so matted and hungry, he must have been out there for ages. The other one looked like a dingoX but I wasn't sure.

 

[passball]

Did WH have a report of the 20th September?
Someone posted it but I don't know who.
It didn't have WHs name on it so I'm not sure if it was even hers