Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Earls Smother]

Right, I'll find it but I can't see the point of them going back there if it had already been thoroughly searched.

Post #6703. Agree, pointless waste of time.

 

[pinkjellybean]

Curlew bird sounds like a human scream

They sure do, we have a pair nesting in our front yard. They're nocturnal though and mainly cry out at dusk and during the night.

 

[Earls Smother]

Did William wet the bed and FF got angry, especially knowing the washing machine was broken and he would have to sleep in that bed that night?

He made William take off his pull up. Is this when FM comes in and dresses him in the Spiderman outfit, and even then she had trouble to do with a tshirt underneath?

Maybe that set the FF off.

He didn't have his meds either and according to FGM he REALLY needed them, maybe they helped to keep him calm.

Maybe FF had words with FM and told her to deal with it
She then phones Spedding first thing to try to get it fixed TODAY.

This could also have been what set FM off.

Then there was the fight over toys, not throwing the dice correctly, not doing what she wants him to, all in front of her mother. The embarrassment.

Wonder what the punishment was for wetting the bed?

a) Instant death and burial in the bush. With the whole family having to be in on it for 10 years.

b) Bit of grumbling and get on with life.

 

[Lady O]

Sorry. I am more interested in why the man at 35 Benaroon didn't answer his door when FM knocked there while looking for William. Why he moved away 3 weeks after William disappeared. Why his house was searched 3 times in the first 24 hours. And how he has flown under the radar when the other close neighbours have all spoken up about that morning - all tried to help.

He could be on the Witness Protection Program.

 

[31550]

It's not even an opinion. It's a possibility that can't be ruled out.

Anyway, you decide what opinions are allowed or not. If they suit what you think, they are acceptable. If they don't, they are shouted down by your constant harassment of posters.

Your shouting is dwindling to a sooky whimper as you realise you have got it wrong. 2 days ago, you'd had enough because it had become a clown show, as it wasn't following your script.

My statement that a vehicle was involved is actually no different from yours that said a human was involved.
You don't know that. He Might have been eaten by a lion. You weren't there.
We are both talking about opinions and possibilities.
Of course it's a logical assumption that a human was involved.
It's also a logical assumption that a vehicle was involved.
The reasoning is exactly the same.
But you decided to jump on me for whatever reasons.
Maybe you have a vested interest in the outcome of this case and try to discredit those who seek the truth?
It sure doesn't sound like you want to entertain any discussion which suggests something sinister may have happened.
Why is that?
And why are you so emotional about what should be a rational logical discussion?

PS the clown show was a reference to the inquest not this forum but if the clown hat fits ...

 

[31550]

Of course it would be better if she could remember them more clearly.

A poster a few days ago had contact with a searcher who also said there were 2 cars in that spot. It’s frustrating the lack of consistency from all witnesses, even the neutral ones.

Most neutral witnesses have been very consistent in their testimony.

The most inconsistent witnesses are the FM and FGM.

Do you have examples of a neutral witness being inconsistent?

You seem to very forgiving of the witnesses who should remember details, but critical of others. Why is that?

We would expect all the various neutral witnesses do have DIFFERENT views of things. They were all in different places at different times and were not involved in events concerning William. But that doesn't mean they are inconsistent. It's the way these are woven into the narrative which alters.

On the other hand the FM and FGM were pretty much there the whole time in pretty much one or two places (supposedly). So why are their own accounts of events SO inconsistent, even within themselves? Trauma might be one reason, but after ten years of telling and retelling, we still can't gat a single version consistent within itself.

 

[InTheBleachers]

He could be on the Witness Protection Program.

He could be. But either way the local police, who would know more about him, felt inclined to search his house 3 times in the first 24 hours. Even looking in the attic, a place where a small boy is not going to wander by himself.

If I can have the two cars on the street not dismissed for a minute - if the occupants of the cars were visiting his place, what type of people were those people? If the man at 35 Benaroon was the type to be searched 3 times in 24 hours.

I think most of us know that the police will look closely at previous offenders when a child goes missing in their neighbourhood. Whether they are involved or not, they look closely - in this case they looked three times quite quickly.
Maybe the evidence had been driven kilometres away by the time the police were called.

 

[LRitz]

I assume it meant Thursday 11/9, which is probably the van that Savage saw in FGM's driveway that day.

Yes you are right it is possible that neighbou Mr Savage is correct in his report of seeing a car visiting FGM house on Thursday 11 Sept afternoon.

I know others have said Mr Savaage may have been incorrect with the time he say the car. But I think he would have noticed if there was something out of the ordinary in the street and someone was visiting FGM.
Did he report that it was a LandRover. Fosters have a Land Rover.
As discussed above it was not Spedding delivering parts.
FGM in her walk through when asked about Thursday does not mention any visitors. Possible she does not want to mention who came to her house.

 

[Earls Smother]

My statement that a vehicle was involved is actually no different from yours that said a human was involved.
You don't know that. He Might have been eaten by a lion. You weren't there.
We are both talking about opinions and possibilities.
Of course it's a logical assumption that a human was involved.
It's also a logical assumption that a vehicle was involved.
The reasoning is exactly the same.
But you decided to jump on me for whatever reasons.
Maybe you have a vested interest in the outcome of this case and try to discredit those who seek the truth?
It sure doesn't sound like you want to entertain any discussion which suggests something sinister may have happened.
Why is that?
And why are you so emotional about what should be a rational logical discussion?

PS the clown show was a reference to the inquest not this forum but if the clown hat fits ...

Of course something sinister has happened. But there are still over 700 POI's and you focus on 1 and only readily accept discussion around that 1.

Do I think he was taken in a car very quickly? Yes. Is is possible he was taken on foot initially (say into number 35), then further moved by car later? Yes.

Did Mr. Cruel drive his Holden Vacationer into the girl's bedrooms?

Did the Beaumont abductor drive a yellow Volkswagon into the parkland at Glenelg Beach?

Were the Adelaide Oval girls taken by a car that drove into the grandstand?

 

[31550]

Sorry. I am more interested in why the man at 35 Benaroon didn't answer his door when FM knocked there while looking for William. Why he moved away 3 weeks after William disappeared. Why his house was searched 3 times in the first 24 hours. And how he has flown under the radar when the other close neighbours have all spoken up about that morning - all tried to help.

If his house was searched 3 times in 24 hours he has hardly 'flown under the radar'. In fact, quite the opposite as far as the police are concerned. Perhaps moving away was in response to all this (to date unfounded) attentio on him? He escaped being a media scapegoat and public pariah like Spedding and Savage? Surely he's entitled to his privacy and anonymity? The fosters are still anonymous.

 

[InTheBleachers]

Yes you are right it is possible that neighbou Mr Savage is correct in his report of seeing a car visiting FGM house on Thursday 11 Sept afternoon.

I know others have said Mr Savaage may have been incorrect with the time he say the car. But I think he would have noticed if there was something out of the ordinary in the street and someone was visiting FGM.
Did he report that it was a LandRover. Fosters have a Land Rover.
As discussed above it was not Spedding delivering parts.
FGM in her walk through when asked about Thursday does not mention any visitors. Possible she does not want to mention who came to her house.

It was a relative who was there on Thursday. FGM was recovering from an illness. Others were helping to take care of her. I do not have a link as proof of who was there. I will have to go back through notes to see how I know that, when I have more time I will do that.

 

[31550]

Of course something sinister has happened. But there are still over 700 POI's and you focus on 1 and only readily accept discussion around that 1.

Do I think he was taken in a car very quickly? Yes. Is is possible he was taken on foot initially (say into number 35), then further moved by car later? Yes.

Did Mr. Cruel drive his Holden Vacationer into the girl's bedrooms?

Did the Beaumont abductor drive a yellow Volkswagon into the parkland at Glenelg Beach?

Were the Adelaide Oval girls taken by a car that drove into the grandstand?

All I said was "with a vehicle". I never said he was put DIRECTLY into a vehicle.
That was a conclusion YOU jumped to.
Clearly IF he was nabbed, he was nabbed by someone WITH A VEHICLE.
You yourself have now admitted that, but you wanted to make a big argument because I said it.
Seriously? Why?

 

[Earls Smother]

Most neutral witnesses have been very consistent in their testimony.

The most inconsistent witnesses are the FM and FGM.

Do you have examples of a neutral witness being inconsistent?

You seem to very forgiving of the witnesses who should remember details, but critical of others. Why is that?

We would expect all the various neutral witnesses do have DIFFERENT views of things. They were all in different places at different times and were not involved in events concerning William. But that doesn't mean they are inconsistent. It's the way these are woven into the narrative which alters.

On the other hand the FM and FGM were pretty much there the whole time in pretty much one or two places (supposedly). So why are their own accounts of events SO inconsistent, even within themselves? Trauma might be one reason, but after ten years of telling and retelling, we still can't gat a single version consistent within itself.

Crabbes 30 minute discrepancy. No-one else hears this vehicle/s.

None of the cars seen by Pete B, Ron C, FM or CCTV seem to match up and give any semblance of multiple versions agreeing with each other.

A lot of people have accepted that the Foster's info is erratic. They were under stress and it needs to be accepted that they weren't necessarily lying. The case doesn't swing on their jumbled version of events IMO.

 

[31550]

It was a relative who was there on Thursday. FGM was recovering from an illness. Others were helping to take care of her. I do not have a link as proof of who was there.

FGM did not mention a relative visiting in her walkthrough. Is this relative visit documented publicly, or has it been suppressed via one of the NPOs?

 

[InTheBleachers]

FGM did not mention a relative visiting in her walkthrough. Is this relative visit documented publicly, or has it been suppressed via one of the NPOs?

FGM's walkthrough was focused on Friday morning. I had edited my post to say I will go back through notes when I have time to see what my source is.

 

[31550]

Crabbes 30 minute discrepancy. No-one else hears this vehicle/s.

None of the cars seen by Pete B, Ron C, FM or CCTV seem to match up and give any semblance of multiple versions agreeing with each other.

A lot of people have accepted that the Foster's info is erratic. They were under stress and it needs to be accepted that they weren't necessarily lying. The case doesn't swing on their jumbled version of events IMO.

Ok so each of the Crabb's reported a different time (one said 10 minutes after they got home, the other said about 30 minutes after they got home.) This is a discrepancy (actually 20, not 30 minutes difference if we are being pedantic), not an inconsistency. Neither of them changed the time they thought they heard the car. So it's possible that they each heard a different car, or it's possible/probable they estimated the time differently, and the car was approx 20 minutes (plus or minus 10) after they got home. We don't expect them to be watching the clock do we? You are trying to discredit the Crabbs now? Why? They heard a car - one of them thinks it was around 9:40 - the other thinks it was around 10:00 - that's handy information, not inconsistent at all.

Why should the cars seen by Peter, FM, or Chapman match each other? Peter saw what he saw. Chapman saw what he saw. There is no reason why they should have seen the same thing. That is not inconsistency. Peter did not change the black Camry to a blue sedan, or change the time he saw the vehicles. Neither did Chapman. They both gave consistent accounts within themselves of what they saw.

On the other hand, FM firstly saw no cars, then two cars, then a third. At differing times in the narrative. And at times when Anne Maree, or Savage, or the Crabbs should also have seen them, but they didn't. FGM never saw any cars either. This is inconsistency.

Witness statements as I have said before are notoriously unreliable.

Again, I don't know why you are trying to discredit neutral witnesses like Chapman, the Crabbs, and Peter who are simply trying to tell what they saw. And so forgiving of the FM who cannot give a consistent version.

 

[jason_recliner]

Jubelin said so, more than once.

Before the million dollar reward could be posted, the brass asked if they'd absolutely been cleared so he went through the motions of interviewing them and having a bug placed in their car so he could monitor their conversation after it. So he was covered and gave his reassurances to the brass.

Then the reward was approved.

That's unusually and uncharacteristically slack for a highly experienced, highly effective homicide detective. You might have misinterpreted his comments i.e. he did those things but those things aren't all he did. Unlikely he'd vouch for their $1m merely on "going through the motions".

 

[LRitz]

Wendy Hudson did the 1st interview on the 12th was she trained as a specialist child interviewer?

WH got the sleeping arrangement bedrooms mixed up in her report.

How did Wendy Hudson get mixed up? We don't know which rooms they slept in. We only know what FM alleged where they slept.
In FGM walkthrough she is vague about bedrooms - " two would have been in there .I really don't know who was sleeping with whom exactly......I think I have feeling that FF was with William....". I don't think FGM is specific which of the two rooms William was in. (Reference for FGM walkthrough part 1 page 293 # 7304. if you want to see how confusing it was that morning at Benaroon drive)

Only a minor point, but, it is easy to lock in to part of the narrative and make that fact, when there is no proof either way. IMO I don't see how we can ever find out where William slept and unlikely this will add to solving his disappearance.

 

[Kurve]

That's unusually and uncharacteristically slack for a highly experienced, highly effective homicide detective. You might have misinterpreted his comments i.e. he did those things but those things aren't all he did. Unlikely he'd vouch for their $1m merely on "going through the motions".

I did not misinterpret his comments.

Jubelin was handed the case at a time when the fosters had been cleared and he was going in other directions. He was not even looking at them as potentially involved until the million dollar reward was in play and he was asked to give his assurances they weren't.

IMO it was those assurances that eventually factored in to costing him his job even if the official reason was something else.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Crabbes 30 minute discrepancy. No-one else hears this vehicle/s.

None of the cars seen by Pete B, Ron C, FM or CCTV seem to match up and give any semblance of multiple versions agreeing with each other.

A lot of people have accepted that the Foster's info is erratic. They were under stress and it needs to be accepted that they weren't necessarily lying. The case doesn't swing on their jumbled version of events IMO.

I don't accept for one second they weren't lying.. first discussion with AMS sharply FM gives two choices:

1 he hit his head and cant hear me or
2 he's been taken.

Really?...he hit his head as first remark? My twin girls 5-6 were missing for 20 min. At no stage did I think that as first thought. It is a massive COG lie..There are many. Not to mention kicking a child and hitting a child with spoon, mysterious bruises and falls, hands around throat and a drive 5 min after going missing 1.3 klm away. Liar!!!!

97% profile. 500% profile. Repeated lies and abduction hoax testimony. Abuse. Pretty clear to me. What I find staggering is that someone can be oblivious to the obvious

 

[LRitz]

Is it true that FM went around the corner calling out to W..... " Can you see daddy's car?" Is that SMH article true? W then didn't answer.

Is she trying to intimate that that had started the daddy game where he hides and surprises daddy when he returns?

What FM alleges she said is not fact. This is not mentioned with her first statement, as I remember - playing tigers, on the grass, runs around the side of the house, FM tells FGM that she can't see William, FM then looks for William.
This narrative of calling out to William, "can you see daddy's car" is added later. FGM does not mention those words either when William runs around the side of the house.

It is possible that "the looking for daddy" narrative was added, because when William disappeared FD asked where was William. FM has to tell her something. FM can not say he is with Daddy. To answer FD she says William is out the front of the house waiting/looking for Daddy to come home.

 

[Earls Smother]

Ok so each of the Crabb's reported a different time (one said 10 minutes after they got home, the other said about 30 minutes after they got home.) This is a discrepancy (actually 20, not 30 minutes difference if we are being pedantic), not an inconsistency. Neither of them changed the time they thought they heard the car. So it's possible that they each heard a different car, or it's possible/probable they estimated the time differently, and the car was approx 20 minutes (plus or minus 10) after they got home. We don't expect them to be watching the clock do we? You are trying to discredit the Crabbs now? Why? They heard a car - one of them thinks it was around 9:40 - the other thinks it was around 10:00 - that's handy information, not inconsistent at all.

Why should the cars seen by Peter, FM, or Chapman match each other? Peter saw what he saw. Chapman saw what he saw. There is no reason why they should have seen the same thing. That is not inconsistency. Peter did not change the black Camry to a blue sedan, or change the time he saw the vehicles. Neither did Chapman. They both gave consistent accounts within themselves of what they saw.

On the other hand, FM firstly saw no cars, then two cars, then a third. At differing times in the narrative. And at times when Anne Maree, or Savage, or the Crabbs should also have seen them, but they didn't. FGM never saw any cars either. This is inconsistency.

Witness statements as I have said before are notoriously unreliable.

Again, I don't know why you are trying to discredit neutral witnesses like Chapman, the Crabbs, and Peter who are simply trying to tell what they saw. And so forgiving of the FM who cannot give a consistent version.

The other Crabbe said 40 minutes. If you want to try and be a pedantic know-it-all at least get it right.

I have no interest in engaging with you. Please don't respond to my posts in future.

 

[Earls Smother]

I don't accept for one second they weren't lying.. first discussion with AMS sharply FM gives two choices:

1 he hit his head and cant hear me or
2 he's been taken.

Really?...he hit his head as first remark? My twin girls 5-6 were missing for 20 min. At no stage did I think that as first thought. It is a massive COG lie..There are many. Not to mention kicking a child and hitting a child with spoon, mysterious bruises and falls, hands around throat and a drive 5 min after going missing 1.3 klm away. Liar!!!!

97% profile. 500% profile. Repeated lies and abduction hoax testimony. Abuse. Pretty clear to me. What I find staggering is that someone can be oblivious to the obvious

This has been done before. The high balcony would introduce that fear. Perfectly reasonable to have that worry.

 

[Kurve]

The other Crabbe said 40 minutes. If you want to try and be a pedantic know-it-all at least get it right.

I have no interest in engaging with you. Please don't respond to my posts in future.

I suggest you and 31550 use the ignore button.

Thanks.

 

[Earls Smother]

I suggest you and 31550 use the ignore button.

Thanks.

In 5 years I have never used that button, so I'll give it a go.