Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Underarrest_]

What would two people be doing driving up there at that time? Two people who simultaneously have the idea to nab a 3YO boy on impulse?
If it's one person, how do they get William into the car, and stop him getting out without shutting the door?
Why would they care about the car door being heard? It's pretty obvious anyone (responsible) with a 3YO kid is going to notice they have been taken pretty quickly. They don't need to hear a car door slam to know.

A car was heard.
We don’t know who it was.
Maybe the police know, I don’t know.
Could have been premeditated, could have been a random abduction.
Why maybe two people there? who knows, but people go for drives in the countryside for all different reasons.
In my parts it’s called a Sunday drive.
Could have been someone driving up to turn at the other street and saw a young boy on the edge of the slope.
We know there’s known pedos in the area and then of course there’s the ones who haven’t been caught.

 

[js47]

The two were running along and playing on the high balcony earlier that morning, the FM said it was safe because she could see them from inside and 'rails'. That isn't necessarily true because there was furniture close to the rails at the highest end any child could have climbed on.

If there's an introduction of a head hitting fear on the balcony, they wouldn't have been allowed to play on it and the FM should have already checked William hadn't fallen from the balcony by the time she spoke to AMS.

There were concerns expressed by the biological mother and the FF about the development or deterioration of William's motor skills, so if he was falling over a lot and struggling to get up, the concern he may have hit his head likely came from there.

WHAT! I find out so much important information in this site. Surely these people who are so wealthy portray themselves as intellectuals had to THINK about William’s falling over. I would have been on that phone to make sure bios, Gov, SA and any one in hearing distance was aware and surely his day care centre must have spoken to them about it. WHY wasn’t he seen by the appropriate people?
What I was confused about was the MFC wondering if he had not been there William may not have been able to get up after falling off the stool?

 

[passball]

I’m not too familiar with the area. Have only been out that way once.
Is there another way to travel from Benaroon to Lakewood?

That's what I'm thinking.

Maybe the work meeting was at Lake Cathie.

He forgets his script and messages the FM that he's coming home to get it. Is the message deleted?

She waits for him and passes the script through the window, no doors opened or closed.

He's in a hurry and probably pissed he had to go back out.

Then goes to Lakewood Khodarys.

Does it fit in the timeline?

 

[LRitz]

Drive 10:30 to 10:35.

Beat FF back by the time it took to go inside and get her phone.

Im confused. What do you think FM did in 5 minutes?

 

[LRitz]

She didn't see Anne Maree until after FF came home. Anne Maree testified she could hear a male voice calling William when she met FM.

Can someone please inform FGM of these facts.

 

[31550]

A car was heard.
We don’t know who it was.
Maybe the police know, I don’t know.
Could have been premeditated, could have been a random abduction.
Why maybe two people there? who knows, but people go for drives in the countryside for all different reasons.
In my parts it’s called a Sunday drive.
Could have been someone driving up to turn at the other street and saw a young boy on the edge of the slope.
We know there’s known pedos in the area and then of course there’s the ones who haven’t been caught.

A car was heard. One car.
Premeditated has been ruled out by police as very few people knew William would be there, and those that did all have alibis according to police.
Random is of course possible but very unlikely given location and time of day and short window.
Sunday drivers (well, Friday morning) - it's a dead-end street. Yeah, could have been someone who took a wrong turn and found the dead end so turned around, but why haven't they come forward and identified themselves?
There are known pedos in the area and SFR probably interviewed all the known ones to eliminate them.
An unknown pedo had to be in exactly the right place at the right time, and also has to be very cunning and skilful to not be seen and to get away with this, and any subsequent offences for 10 years. I suggest that anyone suspected of paedophilia in the area in the last 10 years would have been profiled for this case too.

 

[31550]

Can someone please inform FGM of these facts.

Not sure what is meant here. Sarcasm?
So you found another flaw in FM and FGM narratives? Or are you discrediting Anne Maree?
Too late to tell FGM the facts I'm afraid. And futile trying to inform some of the posters here.

 

[LRitz]

And the FM said she didn't see any cars??? What???
This says she saw the 2 cars twice, but forgets that.
You might forget once but if you saw them twice you would remember and say yes to the 000 call.

How convenient the green car pulled into Millers drive way at # 52. Guess what, no one home, they were away, and everyone knew that. So no witness to prove or contest allegation.

 

[LRitz]

Ever heard of post traumatic memory lapses? It's actually a thing.

Didn't affect the orange juice though.

 

[31550]

I’m not too familiar with the area. Have only been out that way once.
Is there another way to travel from Benaroon to Lakewood?

Any normal person would drive past the tennis club (IMO).

 

[js47]

He's not that good an actor, (my bold)

Hang on 31550, maybe he has been to NIDA, maybe he got badge for acting in scouts. Is he a bit of a salesman in his work role? I don't know these people, so I can not judge. But saying he is not a good actor is just your opinion.

Yes but he likes to manipulate house auctions.

 

[gymjam]

IMO

Right, I'll find it but I can't see the point of them going back there if it had already been thoroughly searched.

it would all depend how significant the previous search/es may have been and what 'specialists' they may have had (or not had).

A few days ago while catching up reading the thread, there was a bit of chatter about a drop-sheet, but I can't seem to find my way back to that. I was interested to know where that reference came from? Are you aware of this discussion Kurve? Thankyou.

 

[LRitz]

Paul Savage also saw two cars in that spot, he thinks it was the previous day. Before WT disappeared.

I think it is very possible that the man at 35 Benaroon had visitors who parked there. But we know so little about that person. Other than he left town about 3 weeks after WT disappeared. He is the man that FGM thought might have something to do with WT's disappearance.

First I have heard of that.

Do you have a link? to Mr Savage seeing two cars in the same spot on Benaroon on the Thursday?
Anne Maree was pretty sure there were no cars on the Friday.

FGM had lots of suspects. Ducks in a line. Two repair men (incidentally FGM had organised them to visit the house) the man that comes and goes that is creepy, then later Savage gets added. Needed to keep police busy. Again all IMO.

 

[Kurve]

I’d assume a kidnapper isn’t going to slam a car door.
It’s possible to close a door quietly.
Just close it mostly then pull shut.
If there were two people, hold it shut then close it a bit down the street.

If they got close enough, if William trusted someone enough to be within arms reach, he could have been pulled in through the window.

Which reminds me the FF said when he got home, he saw the FM and he wound the window down in his vehicle so he could hear her better.

So he must done that before turning the ignition off.

 

[js47]

He would have been seen multiple times on the tennis club CCTV if that was the case, wouldn't he?

You can get out of Kendall by going into Main Street go up hill at intersection go past high school go towards Herons Creek right hand turn past tip? and then on to highway then head back to Lakewood Village

 

[Kurve]

IMO

it would all depend how significant the previous search/es may have been and what 'specialists' they may have had (or not had).

A few days ago while catching up reading the thread, there was a bit of chatter about a drop-sheet, but I can't seem to find my way back to that. I was interested to know where that reference came from? Are you aware of this discussion Kurve? Thankyou.

You can use the Search feature and enter 'dropsheet', select This thread to search under.

 

[LRitz]

No it's not.
My gut and head is saying the FM is involved.
I think it's the FPS actions and reactions aren't stting right with me, and at the same time I'm probably wrong on everything.
Its a 1,000 piece puzzle with only 999 pieces.

And my previous comment. not just pieces missing bu somehow pieces from another puzzle have ended on the table.

 

[31550]

You can get out of Kendall by going into Main Street go up hill at intersection go past high school go towards Herons Creek right hand turn past tip? and then on to highway then head back to Lakewood Village

Maybe you could, but would you?

 

[LRitz]

Did William wet the bed and FF got angry, especially knowing the washing machine was broken and he would have to sleep in that bed that night?

He made William take off his pull up. Is this when FM comes in and dresses him in the Spiderman outfit, and even then she had trouble to do with a tshirt underneath?

Maybe that set the FF off.

He didn't have his meds either and according to FGM he REALLY needed them, maybe they helped to keep him calm.

Maybe FF had words with FM and told her to deal with it
She then phones Spedding first thing to try to get it fixed TODAY.

This could also have been what set FM off.

Then there was the fight over toys, not throwing the dice correctly, not doing what she wants him to, all in front of her mother. The embarrassment.

Wonder what the punishment was for wetting the bed?

I know it is good to run through different scenarios, but all this what if William did this or that, Or what if FM lost her temper. It has all been discussed before.... No evidence. No proof. Not in statements. As far as we have been told everyone was happy that morning. Does not add to solving what happened.

How do you know there was a fight over toys etc. This is a narrative and is alleged by fosters.

 

[31550]

And my previous comment. not just pieces missing bu somehow pieces from another puzzle have ended on the table.

Indeed. There's also a nice picture on the box which happens to match some of the extra pieces, but the picture on the box is not actually the solution. And the picture on the box cannot be created with the pieces we have either.

 

[js47]

LRitz re: travel days. No I think they were already packed. Four people and cat arrangements. For approximately three days. Bikes clothes etc. what days did FFC work? She would have to tell work she would not be there. Did she work that Thursday normally? If not why was William in day care? I think they planned on the Thursday but we’re apprehensive about letting Mother and rest of family know they were coming early. And did not want the kids blabbing so pretended it was a surprise. IMO

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Some of the details within the timeline may be challenged, but there are a few "immovables" IMO.

Looking at what the Crabbs said, it is almost certain:

• because of their regular routine that they almost certainly returned home shortly after 9:30
• they both reported hearing a car after they returned (Peter thought soon after they returned, Sharelle thought some time after they returned) We don't know how long but if Peter estimated 10 minutes and Sharelle estimated 40 minutes, it's most likely in-between or close to one of these times.
• they think they probably heard the same car because they think they remarked "must be the postie" or similar
• police have ruled out this being the postie (it seems)
• they think they heard the car stop momentarily and return from whence it came - at least the sounds they heard are consistent with this
• they do not seem to have mentioned 'gravel' and they do not say this car went past their house at any point
• when interviewed by police a car did in fact drive past the Crabbs and Mrs Crabb heard it and pointed it out to police - confirming her ability to hear a vehicle on Benaroon from her house
• neither of them report hearing any other vehicles coming and going during this period (9:30 to 10:30)

I don't know why anyone would want to discredit the Crabbs. They heard a car, probably the same car. It probably turned around in the FGM driveway or very nearby.

It is widely accepted that William disappeared after 9:37 (photo) and before 10:30 (FF return).
It is widely accepted that William left Benaroon Drive (if not the FGM property itself) in a vehicle.

It is widely accepted that very few vehicles ever go to the top section of Benaroon Drive. Those that do are either residents, or people visiting or doing business with residents. Vehicles can access the fire trail as well, but then they would need to drive on the gravel - they would probably make a different sound to a vehicle stopping and turning around.
Police asked residents about their movements and whether they had any vehicles come and go at this time. So all known vehicles are accounted for, except for the one the Crabbs heard. It cannot be attributed to the postie, or anyone visiting someone in Benaroon Drive, or any of the other residents.

There is (only) one known vehicle which may have left Benaroon Drive during this period. The FGM vehicle, driven (allegedly) by the FM. It is possible this is what was heard by the Crabbs - either going out or coming back (or maybe even both!).

The other possibility is that the Crabbs did not hear FGMs car at all on either its exit or re-entry, but heard another car entirely - the one which abducted William. It just happened to drive up Benaroon Drive for no apparent reason, stop momentarily, grab William (without a door opening or closing being heard) and drive back off. What are the chances of a random opportunistic child abductor driving up Benaroon at that exact time that William ventured to the edge of the property, so that they could quickly exit the vehicle, grab him in a few seconds, and drive off without a door closing?

So which is the more likely scenario?

If it was the FM then what accounts for the momentary stopping they heard? If she placed a dead W in the car what caused hesitation? Was it pausing at the driveway exit perhaps?

If Crabbes know the sound of vehicles coming and going can they also distinguish between residents coming and going from driveway and a car on the street?

 

[passball]

Were there texts deleted from the FMs phone on the day?
Would they be able to tell if the landline called FF that morning?

 

[Underarrest_]

A car was heard. One car.
Premeditated has been ruled out by police as very few people knew William would be there, and those that did all have alibis according to police.
Random is of course possible but very unlikely given location and time of day and short window.
Sunday drivers (well, Friday morning) - it's a dead-end street. Yeah, could have been someone who took a wrong turn and found the dead end so turned around, but why haven't they come forward and identified themselves?
There are known pedos in the area and SFR probably interviewed all the known ones to eliminate them.
An unknown pedo had to be in exactly the right place at the right time, and also has to be very cunning and skilful to not be seen and to get away with this, and any subsequent offences for 10 years. I suggest that anyone suspected of paedophilia in the area in the last 10 years would have been profiled for this case too.

It’s the pedos that haven’t been caught, people need to be aware of.

 

[js47]

I'm a bit confused.
Was the FF at Lakewood or Lake Cathie?
He mentions both and there is a Woolies and Khodarys at both.
I thought he said Lake Cathie first, where he had his meeting.

Freudian slip perhaps