Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[31550]

If it was the FM then what accounts for the momentary stopping they heard? If she placed a dead W in the car what caused hesitation? Was it pausing at the driveway exit perhaps?

If Crabbes know the sound of vehicles coming and going can they also distinguish between residents coming and going from driveway and a car on the street?

Doing a three point turn, reversing out of an unfamiliar driveway in an unfamiliar vehicle? Stopping momentarily to change from reverse into first/drive? Stopping momentarily to look back at William lying on the back seat?

 

[31550]

It’s the pedos that haven’t been caught, people need to be aware of.

Makes sense. Maybe someone can post a list of their names and addresses and pictures so we know who to be aware of?

 

[LRitz]

It was a relative who was there on Thursday. FGM was recovering from an illness. Others were helping to take care of her. I do not have a link as proof of who was there. I will have to go back through notes to see how I know that, when I have more time I will do that.

Sorry that sounds wrong to me. Please send a link or reference.

FGM walkthrough talks specific about Thursday. FGM says, that she goes to community centre(I guess witnessed), Laureiton for shopping and home, Rests in afternoon. No mention of visitors.
She couldn't have been that sick if she drove to Laurieton, 16 kms away. What is the name of the relative.

Things get said and then copied as fact. It is better to check notes first before the post when you have more time.

 

[Kurve]

Makes sense. Maybe someone can post a list of their names and addresses and pictures so we know who to be aware of?

This is why you can be aggravating.

 

[Underarrest_]

Makes sense. Maybe someone can post a list of their names and addresses and pictures so we know who to be aware of?

No they can’t.
They’re often someone who blends into the community well, sometimes have a family of their own, a pillar in the community.
Your sarcasm is ignorant.

 

[gymjam]

Any normal person would drive past the tennis club (IMO).

I picked up a (possible) way to get between the 2 locations without going past the tennis club's cctv. That was through the showground (all depending on whether the gate was locked at the entrance from Batar Creek Road) and whether a local could explain if it was possible to drive over the railway line after exiting the showground - there is access to Orari Street and if you travel north along that, you end up having to pass the Kendall tennis club if you turn right at an intersection. However, was there access through from Orari and in behind the swimming pool to get across the railway line? Or perhaps between the showground and the swimming pool?

Attached is a google earth shot, 48 is in lower left corner - the red bed. The aerial view is from January 2016.

There also appears to be a 'sign' of a track if you turn south from the showground/orari street - purple highlight, and a 'sign' there may be unofficial access over the railway line - light colour patches, which would then possibly enable the driver to drive north on Railway St then turn right to cross the river and avoid the cctv at the kendall tennis club which is the yellow highlight.

Advice from a local if these side-trips would have been possible would be appreciated.

 

[js47]

Maybe you could, but would you?

Yes very common when partner lived there

 

[LRitz]

This is a long shot but could FF have forgotten his script and gone back to the house. Lakewood is only a short drive away and has the only/closest chemist that I can see.

Why did he not mention this?
He said he left around 9 and went to Lakewood. He was asked did he stop, and he said no. You think getting some of the way and coming back would have been sort of a stop. He was up for about 3 hours before he allegedly left the house at allegedly around 9. What on earth was he doing all morning that he then forgot the script.

 

[js47]

I know it is good to run through different scenarios, but all this what if William did this or that, Or what if FM lost her temper. It has all been discussed before.... No evidence. No proof. Not in statements. As far as we have been told everyone was happy that morning. Does not add to solving what happened.

How do you know there was a fight over toys etc. This is a narrative and is alleged by fosters.

The only part I believe was the fight over the toy sounded like a great toy.
Definitely do not believe the silver service breakfast bit.

 

[31550]

Yes very common when partner lived there

In that case it would be quite telling for the FF to use two different routes for the two trips. Excuse could be the roadworks? But that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Why leave this out of his narrative?

 

[passball]

This is why you can be aggravating.

Makes sense. Maybe someone can post a list of their names and addresses and pictures so we know who to be aware of?

Alan Jones photo was up this morning

 

[LRitz]

OMG yes it is my opinion. And I gave the reasons I hold that opinion. What is your problem with ME expressing an opinion. It is clearly an opinion. I never intended it to be treated as an immutable fact. How the heck is "He's not that good an actor" ever going to be treated by a rational person as a fact? It's a qualitative statement. NOT THAT GOOD. Clearly an opinion. How do you measure or define "Not that Good"???
In what context could that POSSIBLY construed as FACT. FFS!

Chill out.
I get it is your opinion. I have no opinion on this, as I said I do not know these people.
But again you just dismiss the FF. That was my point. Maybe FF is a good actor. Maybe FF is involved. Maybe the FF's search for 90 minutes on Friday morning was an act.

 

[js47]

I picked up a (possible) way to get between the 2 locations without going past the tennis club's cctv. That was through the showground (all depending on whether the gate was locked at the entrance from Batar Creek Road) and whether a local could explain if it was possible to drive over the railway line after exiting the showground - there is access to Orari Street and if you travel north along that, you end up having to pass the Kendall tennis club if you turn right at an intersection. However, was there access through from Orari and in behind the swimming pool to get across the railway line? Or perhaps between the showground and the swimming pool?

Attached is a google earth shot, 48 is in lower left corner - the red bed. The aerial view is from January 2016.

There also appears to be a 'sign' of a track if you turn south from the showground/orari street - purple highlight, and a 'sign' there may be unofficial access over the railway line - light colour patches, which would then possibly enable the driver to drive north on Railway St then turn right to cross the river and avoid the cctv at the kendall tennis club which is the yellow highlight.

Advice from a local if these side-trips would have been possible would be appreciated.

I don’t live in CH now. The Fosters know the area well FF admitted this in his walk through I am sure he would have rather used the tip road but will talk to partner about it

 

[31550]

Chill out.
I get it is your opinion. I have no opinion on this, as I said I do not know these people.
But again you just dismiss the FF. That was my point. Maybe FF is a good actor. Maybe FF is involved. Maybe the FF's search for 90 minutes on Friday morning was an act.

Chill out yourself. I just said I found his emotional response to the guy who wouldn't let him search his garage/shed to be convincing. Not the sort of response you would get from someone who was only acting. It drew attention to himself which is not something a guilty person would do. To me it showed that at that time he truly believed William was alive and possibly in the shed.
Personally I think FF is an egotistical fool. I find it hard to believe he has the emotional intelligence to act so convincingly in that particular moment. A true actor would have remained calm and reasoned with the man, or simply moved on and searched elsewhere instead of creating a scene. IMO

 

[js47]

Partner does not think it possible to go via show ground but who knows people make tracks everywhere

 

[LRitz]

Not sure what is meant here. Sarcasm?
So you found another flaw in FM and FGM narratives? Or are you discrediting Anne Maree?
Too late to tell FGM the facts I'm afraid. And futile trying to inform some of the posters here.

Come on 31550. It was meant to be a crystal ball like a ouija board thing. Of course we can't contact FGM.
Maybe the previous thread was lost.
What I had suggested was to listen to the FF walkthrough again. I listened again. He talks about running around for a long time. It is all a bit confusing without a full context. What I think is, his version of seeing neighbours and who he saw first is also confusing just like the FGM and FM.
FGM was way out in saying she followed FM towards the road and immediately say Anne Maree.

Sorry we seem to be at cross purposes toady.

 

[Earls Smother]

Unless ... they got more information.

Would we have been told if for example, the FM confided in someone that William fell over the balcony?

What's the point going back to where you've looked before though?

If that's what happened, he obviously was moved fairly quickly from the original dumping ground. You have said you don't think the FF is involved in any way. How was he moved without any cadaver scent showing he had been there (remembering the dogs would have been to that area very early on)?

Her window from the timeline, established by police officers who know absolutely everything, gives her from about 10:10 (from Beacroft and Laidlaw) to 10:35 (return of FF). We know she wasn't gone that whole time, because no-one realised he was gone for at least 5 minutes (likely a bit more). She is known to have run to the bus stop, so more minutes gone.

I read yesterday that her timeline was re-enacted and found to be "very tight, but possible". That is how you would expect it to be - not dawdling around with wasted time, but not so many things that they all can't possibly fit in the available time.

If they think they got more information, it doesn't seem to have helped them terribly much.

 

[Kurve]

What's the point going back to where you've looked before though?

If that's what happened, he obviously was moved fairly quickly from the original dumping ground. You have said you don't think the FF is involved in any way. How was he moved without any cadaver scent showing he had been there (remembering the dogs would have been to that area very early on)?

Her window from the timeline, established by police officers who know absolutely everything, gives her from about 10:10 (from Beacroft and Laidlaw) to 10:35 (return of FF). We know she wasn't gone that whole time, because no-one realised he was gone for at least 5 minutes (likely a bit more). She is known to have run to the bus stop, so more minutes gone.

I read yesterday that her timeline was re-enacted and found to be "very tight, but possible". That is how you would expect it to be - not dawdling around with wasted time, but not so many things that they all can't possibly fit in the available time.

If they think they got more information, it doesn't seem to have helped them terribly much.

If for example the cops have information William went over the balcony, they'd be looking for where he was moved to with the logical place being near Batar Creek Road because she has placed herself there. If it doesn't appear as yet, that any other witness have seen her there.

In that context, I can see them going back to do a more thorough search.

One of the main reasons why I don't think the FF is involved is because all the focus is on the FM, as if they really do have information pointing to her.

 

[Earls Smother]

Im confused. What do you think FM did in 5 minutes?

Drove to Cobb & co road and back, as discussed for the past decade.

 

[js47]

In that case it would be quite telling for the FF to use two different routes for the two trips. Excuse could be the roadworks? But that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Why leave this out of his narrative?

Because FM plans to leave stuff out of her narrative but FF might not have the FM’s capabilities.

 

[31550]

Amazing how the discussion has now turned to

• something other than an accidental balcony fall
• FM moving the body by car to 'somewhere'
• somewhere not necessarily BCR/CCTV but outside the immediate search area
• 'someone' subsequently moving the body to another location so that even if cadaverine was detected there was no William when it was searched if it was searched
• the subsequent location has possibly never been searched and or is further away
• the secondary mover may or may not be FF

I wonder why nobody ever came up with this theory before

 

[LRitz]

Drove to Cobb & co road and back, as discussed for the past decade.

Thanks. So the just looking for William scenario.
Not the hide a body scenario.

....as discussed for the past decade..... Every body a bit snipy today. Is there something in the orange juice? I was honestly just asking for clarification.

 

[Kurve]

Thanks. So the just looking for William scenario.
Not the hide a body scenario.

....as discussed for the past decade..... Every body a bit snipy today. Is there something in the orange juice? I was honestly just asking for clarification.

The full moon was on the 16th so it's not that, I checked.

 

[gymjam]

Why did he not mention this?
He said he left around 9 and went to Lakewood. He was asked did he stop, and he said no. You think getting some of the way and coming back would have been sort of a stop. He was up for about 3 hours before he allegedly left the house at allegedly around 9. What on earth was he doing all morning that he then forgot the script.

That 9 time is incorrect. I think people are getting confused with the time FF stated Khodary Pharmacy opened - its in his 14/9/2014 statement and he had pre-checked the opening time on the net - it was 9; and also his vehicle was captured on Kendall tennis club cctv heading in Lakewood direction at 8:40! In this statement he doesn't actually state what time he left Benaroon Drive, he bumbled on about 8am but its hard to make out whether he meant he departed Benaroon at 8am or whether he had intended to get to Lakewood by 8am, and spend a bit of time setting up his video system to hook up with the woman in Queensland. Note: he was still at 48 Benaroon around 7:50.

He said he used to test his video systems to make sure the hookup could occur without issues and it was dependent upon the system his contact was using at their end to get the hookup flowing ok. He initially stated on 14th that his video call commenced at 9.15, then changed the time to 9.30, but later during the 14th interview, checked his phone and a note he had made and showed this evidence to both interviewing detectives that he actually commenced the video call at 9.17.

Therefore, we know his presence in Lakewood was verified by police by an independent cctv system in Lakewood. He parked in the Woolworths carpark and also had a view of Khodary Pharmacy adjacent to Woolworths. So he didn't need to drive off somewhere else before he made his way to Khodary after his video call was completed at 9.56. He obtained a receipt from Khodary at 10:19 recording his payment for his script - the detectives interviewing him on 14th did not ask him what his movements were between 9:56 and 10:19.

During the video meeting he had a missed call from a woman he referred to as a 'recruiter' with initials BR (I have chosen not to use her full name as recorded in his statement), and he returned that call whilst he was at Khodary and he said he told her he was at the chemist waiting for a script, and told her he needed to finish the call because he need to get back home.

He commenced his travel back to Kendall and was stopped by roadworks in Kew. During this time he made a call at 10.23.

edit: spelling - the auto correct function is driving me crazy lately!

 

[LRitz]

They seem to be making progress but it's been ten years. It's too late to be asking a lot of these questions now. Too easy to say "I don't remember".
So many potential red flags were just ignored.

Black eyes.

Were there two episodes of black eyes?
The one around the time of the last meeting of Bio Mother with William. So only some weeks before.
And this earlier photo also appears to show bruising. William looks younger in this photo, IMO.
Were both bruises on the left side of his face?

He also looks much less thin in this photo.