Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry Current

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[js47]

Why did he not mention this?
He said he left around 9 and went to Lakewood. He was asked did he stop, and he said no. You think getting some of the way and coming back would have been sort of a stop. He was up for about 3 hours before he allegedly left the house at allegedly around 9. What on earth was he doing all morning that he then forgot the script.

Oh I have kept that question in my head for soooooo! Long.
In his walk through he BRAGS how he knows all the fire trails but it is questionable if he has his bike. He also says he went down a trail (which one) looking in case William lost a shoe . I am wondering if FF took William on his shoulders for a little walk for a little talk about upsetting FGM because of fights over toys (I bet he had one) long day school days long trip early start. Seems possible to me.
Fm accounts for her FD William’s FGM activities. Didn’t FF say when they were challenged over the FD ‘I am sick of this s**t? A Leopard does not change its spots.

 

[31550]

Thanks. So the just looking for William scenario.
Not the hide a body scenario.

....as discussed for the past decade..... Every body a bit snipy today. Is there something in the orange juice? I was honestly just asking for clarification.

The looking for William scenario dissolves somewhat IMO if the drive was only 5 minutes. You could drive there and back at normal speed in 5 minutes minimum. I'd suggest 'looking for William' speed would take quite a bit longer, depending on how seriously one was looking. This ignores time to find keys, tell people where you are going, and then go back inside the house or onto the back verandah where she was with FD when FF returned.

 

[js47]

Were there two episodes of black eyes?
The one around the time of the last meeting of Bio Mother with William. So only some weeks before.
And this earlier photo also appears to show bruising. William looks younger in this photo, IMO.
Were both bruises on the left side of his face?

He also looks much less thin in this photo.






View attachment 2168284

BINGO!

 

[passball]

Watched the FF walkthrough and full respect for the other guy staying calm listening to that BS.
Never considered the FF involvement until yesterday.

 

[31550]

Watched the FF walkthrough and full respect for the other guy staying calm listening to that BS.
Never considered the FF involvement until yesterday.

Yeah my favourite part was FF telling the fat cop he wouldn't be able to keep up with him. What a hero.

 

[passball]

Yeah my favourite part was FF telling the fat cop he wouldn't be able to keep up with him. What a hero.

 

[Kurve]

Have we ruled out the FM could not have taken two drives after 9.37? And does anybody know if the FGM Mazda 3 had GPS?

 

[passball]

You mean cuddly?
FF was so focused on big noting himself it's nauseous. Apparently he's savvy and a sprinter, also a tracker.
There was ZERO emotion from him.

 

[gymjam]

Were there two episodes of black eyes?
The one around the time of the last meeting of Bio Mother with William. So only some weeks before.
And this earlier photo also appears to show bruising. William looks younger in this photo, IMO.
Were both bruises on the left side of his face?

He also looks much less thin in this photo.






View attachment 2168284

Apparently the earlier photo was taken of William when William was about 9months old which was the age he entered the foster parents home in February 2012. A couple of days after the above photo was first published after 12/9/2014, someone on the local facebook group posted as the 'parent' of William and advised this bruising was as a result of an 'accident' at the day care centre. I don't recall seeing either of William's biological names as the facebook poster nor recall seeing the name of the original poster who called themself the 'parent'. From memory it was a snip from the original 'parent' post that was pasted into a facebook comment and excluded the initial poster name.

I am sure I have a saved copy of the facebook post but not promising I can find it in the near future, but when I do I will post it here. If there are any Kendall locals on BF they may recall this post and hopefully have a copy?

 

[gymjam]

You mean cuddly?
FF was so focused on big noting himself it's nauseous. Apparently he's savvy and a sprinter, also a tracker.
There was ZERO emotion from him.

Can you explain what you mean by 'tracker' please?

 

[LRitz]

Watched the FF walkthrough and full respect for the other guy staying calm listening to that BS.
Never considered the FF involvement until yesterday.

Keep all options open. Assume nothing.
Sometimes going back over something, like FF walkthrough, you see something through different eyes or something new pops out.

FF walkthrough, I don't think FF mention William once specifically by name. Just an observation. He just seems to say "he".

FF also says to police regarding how he was searching " ...I don't think you would have been able to catch up with me...."
Then a sort of little chuckle. Was this leakage or did he realise what he had just said.

 

[gymjam]

Have we ruled out the FM could not have taken two drives after 9.37? And does anybody know if the FGM Mazda 3 had GPS?

My inquiries with a Mazda dealership - they advised there was no pre-sale gps in the model Mazda 3. There may have been post-purchase one installed though, but I do doubt that. I read earlier on that when fostergrandmother took trips to Sydney it was by train. And local areas in Kendall and surrounds (Port Macquarie etc etc etc) she would have known very well due to her living in Benaroon Drive for 23+ years.

I think there is the possibility of 2 drives after the time you mention. One with William and one (separately taken sometime after the last corrected time of the (alleged) final photo) with the shoes.

 

[31550]

Have we ruled out the FM could not have taken two drives after 9.37? And does anybody know if the FGM Mazda 3 had GPS?

I'm having trouble fitting one but it's possible if the first was around 10am and the second around 10.15am. Also depends where she went on each. IMO

 

[LRitz]

Apparently the earlier photo was taken of William when William was about 9months old which was the age he entered the foster parents home in February 2012. A couple of days after the above photo was first published after 12/9/2014, someone on the local facebook group posted as the 'parent' of William and advised this bruising was as a result of an 'accident' at the day care centre. I don't recall seeing either of William's biological names as the facebook poster nor recall seeing the name of the original poster who called themself the 'parent'. From memory it was a snip from the original 'parent' post that was pasted into a facebook comment and excluded the initial poster name.

I am sure I have a saved copy of the facebook post but not promising I can find it in the near future, but when I do I will post it here. If there are any Kendall locals on BF they may recall this post and hopefully have a copy?

So the earlier bruise, seen in the photo of William in the orange shirt, has been explained by a fall at the preschool. Would this have been reported to FACS?

The second bruise was allegedly from a fall at home. I don't think we have seen a photo that bruise.

For a little kid he gets lots of black eyes / face bruising IMO. From my experience, so again IMO, under 5s get grazed knees, bumps to foreheads, and need a steady supply of band aids, but rarely black eyes.

The bruising from a black eye can be delayed from the time of the trauma. Could look worse the next day, so may be difficult to pin point the exact time and cause of the bruise. hmmmm

 

[gymjam]

Oh I have kept that question in my head for soooooo! Long.
In his walk through he BRAGS how he knows all the fire trails but it is questionable if he has his bike. He also says he went down a trail (which one) looking in case William lost a shoe . I am wondering if FF took William on his shoulders for a little walk for a little talk about upsetting FGM because of fights over toys (I bet he had one) long day school days long trip early start. Seems possible to me.
Fm accounts for her FD William’s FGM activities. Didn’t FF say when they were challenged over the FD ‘I am sick of this s**t? A Leopard does not change its spots.

The fire trail he (FF) mentioned in his walkthru was that he was discovered by Chris Rowley about 200 metres into the non-bitumized part of Benaroon Drive (extension), and that was after Chris Rowley had ordered/instructed him to stay at 48 Benaroon! I have not been aware FF 'shoe' comment though and as far as I know it doesn't appear in the part of the FF walkthru that was released by the Coroner in an earlier tranche. Do you have a copy of that section of transcript?

Chris Rowley made out an official written report about this occurring and it was published during one of the earlier inquest tranches. It used to be available (and may still be) using google search 'images' with Chris Rowley's name included.

Edit: I just put this phrase into google search and searched using the 'All' parameter 'chris rowley fire trail benaroon drive william tyrrell' and the first answer is an article in The Australian 7/7/2020 - was this about the time CR appeared at the inquest? The article is paywalled. Snip attached.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Have we ruled out the FM could not have taken two drives after 9.37? And does anybody know if the FGM Mazda 3 had GPS?

This was discussed I recall in part 1 with conclusion that it didn't.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Keep all options open. Assume nothing.
Sometimes going back over something, like FF walkthrough, you see something through different eyes or something new pops out.

FF walkthrough, I don't think FF mention William once specifically by name. Just an observation. He just seems to say "he".

FF also says to police regarding how he was searching " ...I don't think you would have been able to catch up with me...."
Then a sort of little chuckle. Was this leakage or did he realise what he had just said.

In witness statement analysis that is a noticeable thing common to perpetrators where they seek to soften their actions by distancing language. Good pick up !!!

 

[gymjam]

The looking for William scenario dissolves somewhat IMO if the drive was only 5 minutes. You could drive there and back at normal speed in 5 minutes minimum. I'd suggest 'looking for William' speed would take quite a bit longer, depending on how seriously one was looking. This ignores time to find keys, tell people where you are going, and then go back inside the house or onto the back verandah where she was with FD when FF returned.

Do we know where fostergrandmother stored her vehicle keys? Maybe in her bedroom which was very adjacent to the kitchen. Could FM have looked and found the keys when she was inside make the infamous cup of tea? Then placed William in her mother's vehicle? Stayed and had tea, then did a disappearing act - maybe her mother thought she was in the loo or tidying up the bedrooms? Would she really tell people where she was going (in the car) or would she just sneak out? I wonder what the level of 'hearing' her mother had and if she was tone deaf to some common noises like her own vehicle starting up? I've not heard a Mazda 3 start up, so I now wonder how it sounded?

 

[gymjam]

Keep all options open. Assume nothing.
Sometimes going back over something, like FF walkthrough, you see something through different eyes or something new pops out.

FF walkthrough, I don't think FF mention William once specifically by name. Just an observation. He just seems to say "he".

FF also says to police regarding how he was searching " ...I don't think you would have been able to catch up with me...."
Then a sort of little chuckle. Was this leakage or did he realise what he had just said.

And FM rarely says Willlam's name too. I have always wondered what her reference to "my other daughter" was about during the 000 call. At the time neither the 000 opeartor nor FM was referencing the other child present and 'my other daughter' really gave me a jolt.

 

[gymjam]

They seem to be making progress but it's been ten years. It's too late to be asking a lot of these questions now. Too easy to say "I don't remember".
So many potential red flags were just ignored.

Black eyes.
Hand injuries.
Deleted texts.
Phone calls unanswered within minutes of making a call.
Cars suddenly remembered, days later.
Drive down BCR not mentioned until days later.
Shoes on or off?
How many for breakfast.
Unlocked high balcony.
FF goes out alone.

All of these things were just ignored or accepted on face value. Nothing was actually investigated.

I wonder if the breakfast food/drinks was discovered - egg shells and evidence of other edibles/drinks mentioned? I think what William was supposed to have eaten for breakfast also changed. Weetbix to scrambled eggs or vice versa? Accident at East Killara in FF presence a couple of days before they departed for Kendall detailed in 14/9/2014 statement; with biological parents questioning Detective Beacroft why there was NO witness statement from FF until his walkthrough - 1st tranche. Det Beacroft's answer was the 'they' were so busy with searches it was probably not done. What a shock - because she was the officer in charge of the files and didn't know FF had made a statement on 14/9/2014 and it was obvious the biological father's legal and another legal representing (?) was not aware of this statement either!

With these legals not knowing about the statement by FF on 14/9/2014 it brought into play a major concern, that being if the Coroner actually had a copy and if she did, why weren't the legals supplied a copy in their Briefs and who prepared and supplied the so-called full brief to the Coroner? GJ supplied a brief to the Coroner prior to the June 2018 Cedar Loggers Lane/Cobb and Co Road and Benaroon Drive searches he lead. Was there an upgraded Brief supplied to the Coroner after the suspension of his involvement in the William Tyrrell case?

 

[gymjam]

I don’t know if she’s cognitively impaired or she’s had PTSD for 10 years, but either way she can’t seem to answer a simple straight question and that’s been evident from the 000 call where she could not (or refused) to answer some very simple questions, to the walkthrough on 12/9/14+5, all of her statements, and every interview she’s ever given to the media.


It’s hard to know if anything she’s ever said to police or to her friends or to the media has been true or accurate and imo she is a wholly unreliable witness.

Lol I remember her confusion at inquest. I wondered if she got herself into a muddle because she knew she had turned left at sometime; possibly the trip to Macquarie Airport she had stated to Lia Harris in her interview on 12/9/2013 in which she had stated she picked her sister up 'on the night' and at that time in the interview, they were discussing the 12/9/2014!

 

[passball]

The fire trail he (FF) mentioned in his walkthru was that he was discovered by Chris Rowley about 200 metres into the non-bitumized part of Benaroon Drive (extension), and that was after Chris Rowley had ordered/instructed him to stay at 48 Benaroon! I have not been aware FF 'shoe' comment though and as far as I know it doesn't appear in the part of the FF walkthru that was released by the Coroner in an earlier tranche. Do you have a copy of that section of transcript?

Chris Rowley made out an official written report about this occurring and it was published during one of the earlier inquest tranches. It used to be available (and may still be) using google search 'images' with Chris Rowley's name included.

Edit: I just put this phrase into google search and searched using the 'All' parameter 'chris rowley fire trail benaroon drive william tyrrell' and the first answer is an article in The Australian 7/7/2020 - was this about the time CR appeared at the inquest? The article is paywalled. Snip attached.

FF, in his walkthrough, said he had walked up that trail and that's when he mentioned about looking for things on the ground, like Williams shoe.

Sounded like he did this before the 000 call.

If Rowley found him at that particular trail does that mean he went up that trail twice?

 

[gymjam]

You can use the Search feature and enter 'dropsheet', select This thread to search under.

Thankyou for your reply Kurve. I have tried every which way and loose that I can think of. I am now thinking perhaps the original post has been edited to exclude the reference or the post was deleted?

I will mentioned this anyway. Some dark-green plastic fabric-type was located at the Cobb and Co Road big dig 2020 search and I was thinking could this have been related to this 'dropsheet' reference that was on BG a few days ago? Similar looking material to a dropsheet that may have been degraded. I know there are garden bags made of this dark-green plastic fabric-type material that degrade when left with soil or other matter in them. There are also very large planting bags for tree that come in this type of fabric - almost the same size and even larger than an (older style) solid plastic household rubbish bin/container but with 2 handles on either side.

 

[Kurve]

Thankyou for your reply Kurve. I have tried every which way and loose that I can think of. I am now thinking perhaps the original post has been edited to exclude the reference or the post was deleted?

There's quite a few references. Here

• #5,640

 

[js47]

You mean cuddly?
FF was so focused on big noting himself it's nauseous. Apparently he's savvy and a sprinter, also a tracker.
There was ZERO emotion from him.

ZERO