Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[31550]

If the phone was turned off, How did she get the text message from the FF?

The telco will know when the phone was turned on and when calls were made to her phone. Was the text message in her evidence?

At the start of last weeks hearing, Craddock mentions three facts, the 9.37 photo, the text message and the 000 call. I found this an odd opening statement. Maybe he was pointing out that that they are there not all facts!

The records attached to the FM statement do not include INCOMING calls or texts. So we don't know when she received the text message. (Note it is not even clear that it was an SMS and not some sort of IM), but police seem certain it was SENT at exactly 10:30 (according to the transcript of FF interview he showed the cops his phone with the message timestamped exactly 10:30).

 

[Angry Red Bull]

As I recall there was narrative line by the fosters that William would only travel down hill. It sounds rehearsed, IMO. Downhill explains how he got to the road. It also means he would have headed straight in the direction of the two mystery cars, and adds to the "he's been taken" narrative. And yes away from the fire trail.

FF in his walkthrough was being asked why he had first looked in an area, FF said word to the effect: "He's got asthma . He probably wouldn't spend his time going up hill. It would just be too hard for him.....I guess he's a little bit like water, it's the path of least resistance. He would go down..."

FGM in her walkthrough is saying that FM literally ran down the street. FGM is explaining that the reason FM ran that way is because it is downhill and this is the direction William would go. 14.50 FGM "......because we both knew that if he was, he would be going down, he would be going down hill, knowing the little boy ..."

And then later in FGM walkthrough - , it is a bit confusing as it sound like police interviewer says "he" but I think she meant "you". Police interviewer asks FGM Q: "so you think he would have come back this way?"
FGM answer : "...Well you see he's a little boy. He wouldn't be climbing up. He would be going down.."
Police Question : "Would he run up and down the hill?"
FGM Answer: " No No"

Note. My transcripts so maybe not exactly as said.

Yes this is what I mean. it all seems a little orchestrated doesn't it. Kids have legs and can walk too. A bit lame in my view that he would go only one direction. Both FGM and FF also point in direction down street to explain their view.

There is indeed a slope. But I don't think it's insurmountable for a child if something caught their interest. And to be intentionally creating a direction of focus is a concern

 

[Earls Smother]

According to my source, a 'Police Officer at Port Macquarie command' , they were not actually considered suspects in the early part of the investigation at all. The focus was entirely on the biological family. This was a priveleged conversation I had with them well before Jubelin taking over. He (and his colleagues) were of the opinion that the senior investigating officer was incompetent, who got to where he was by pounding the flesh (a Politician ascending the ranks).

There was none of the normal activity to treat either Benaroon drive or even the FF home in Sydney as a crime scene, for months. This conversation I had with him started as I showed him something I picked up on the property across the street on google maps that looked odd. The house was put on the market as well soon after the disappearance. He was surprised I had picked this up as the location in Benaroon drive had not been identified at that stage. ( I just worked out where it was by the description.)

Can you say any more about the bolded?

That house is very relevantly placed you'd think.

The 2 cars on that map a couple of pages back were parked outside that property. Do we know much about the residents and what they had to say?

 

[truecrimepath]

As I recall there was narrative line by the fosters that William would only travel down hill. It sounds rehearsed, IMO. Downhill explains how he got to the road. It also means he would have headed straight in the direction of the two mystery cars, and adds to the "he's been taken" narrative. And yes away from the fire trail.

FF in his walkthrough was being asked why he had first looked in an area, FF said word to the effect: "He's got asthma . He probably wouldn't spend his time going up hill. It would just be too hard for him.....I guess he's a little bit like water, it's the path of least resistance. He would go down..."

FGM in her walkthrough is saying that FM literally ran down the street. FGM is explaining that the reason FM ran that way is because it is downhill and this is the direction William would go. 14.50 FGM "......because we both knew that if he was, he would be going down, he would be going down hill, knowing the little boy ..."

And then later in FGM walkthrough - , it is a bit confusing as it sound like police interviewer says "he" but I think she meant "you". Police interviewer asks FGM Q: "so you think he would have come back this way?"
FGM answer : "...Well you see he's a little boy. He wouldn't be climbing up. He would be going down.."
Police Question : "Would he run up and down the hill?"
FGM Answer: " No No"

Note. My transcripts so maybe not exactly as said.

New title; The boy that wouldn’t go up hill. How did he ever get home.

This is just so ridiculous.

 

[31550]

New title; The boy that wouldn’t go up hill. How did he ever get home.

This is just so ridiculous.

Yet he 'kept running round the corner and coming back'?
How does he do this if he can only run downhill?

 

[truecrimepath]

Can you say any more about the bolded?

That house is very relevantly placed you'd think.

The 2 cars on that map a couple of pages back were parked outside that property. Do we know much about the residents and what they had to say?

Post #5784. No one replied. Yes it was where the cars are parked if they even existed. The thought crossed my mind at the time that someone was waiting behind the ridge.

 

[Kurve]

Let's look at the chronology of events from the FF perspective.
He returns home at 10:35 whereupon he is informed William is missing.
Then he visits the Millers. Then he searches the back yard and is heard calling William at ~ 10:40 while AMS is talking to FM. Then he sees FM and she asks him if she should call 000, which she does at ~ 10:57.
Then at 11:05 or soon after he is observed by police coming out of the FGM bathroom.
Witnesses describe his demeanour as 'distraught, frantic, upset'.
Several hours of searching take place. Dogs called in, neighbours rally. SES involvement. Police set up command post. Presumably police speak to him and counsel him?
Then in early evening he is observed having a home cooked dinner and drinking wine.
We know he suffered from anxiety and has medication for that on hand - he filled his prescription that very morning.
He has had 7 or 8 hours to process the situation and react.
Then something happens, causing an ambulance to be called.
What?
Could be anything, but the only people present seem to be FM, FGM and William's sister.
Was he told something which brought on an anxiety attack?
Granted this is all speculative, but what are the other possible explanations?
Then he is missing from the house at first light, on his own. Nobody knows where he went or when he returned.
Wouldn't police or ambos or even his wife have advised him that this is not a good idea?

I'm not sure anything incriminating would have been said in the house. The fosters demonstrated what might be an uncommon awareness of higher end surveillance tech when they wanted their vehicle checked by police for tracking devices, remember this was back in 2014.

I assume they'd be aware if they were under suspicion at all in the case of a missing child, one of the cops might have installed a listening device. Yes, without a warrant.

 

[LRitz]

How?

Ask Joe Tripodi. It was reported in this story. Maybe we can get Kate McClymont on to help. She gets things done.

Phone turned off before Joe Tripodi's big trip

Tony Kelly was shocked to open the door at his Wellington home to find his former colleague Joe Tripodi standing there with a hamburger in one hand and a coffee in the other.

www.smh.com.au

 

[truecrimepath]

The records attached to the FM statement do not include INCOMING calls or texts. So we don't know when she received the text message. (Note it is not even clear that it was an SMS and not some sort of IM), but police seem certain it was SENT at exactly 10:30 (according to the transcript of FF interview he showed the cops his phone with the message timestamped exactly 10:30).

But does she mention the text in her statement?

 

[Earls Smother]

Let's look at the chronology of events from the FF perspective.
He returns home at 10:35 whereupon he is informed William is missing.
Then he visits the Millers. Then he searches the back yard and is heard calling William at ~ 10:40 while AMS is talking to FM. Then he sees FM and she asks him if she should call 000, which she does at ~ 10:57.
Then at 11:05 or soon after he is observed by police coming out of the FGM bathroom.
Witnesses describe his demeanour as 'distraught, frantic, upset'.
Several hours of searching take place. Dogs called in, neighbours rally. SES involvement. Police set up command post. Presumably police speak to him and counsel him?
Then in early evening he is observed having a home cooked dinner and drinking wine.
We know he suffered from anxiety and has medication for that on hand - he filled his prescription that very morning.
He has had 7 or 8 hours to process the situation and react.
Then something happens, causing an ambulance to be called.
What?
Could be anything, but the only people present seem to be FM, FGM and William's sister.
Was he told something which brought on an anxiety attack?
Granted this is all speculative, but what are the other possible explanations?
Then he is missing from the house at first light, on his own. Nobody knows where he went or when he returned.
Wouldn't police or ambos or even his wife have advised him that this is not a good idea?

I've explained my opinion already this morning.

Shock wears off, maybe sees multiple news reports, delayed full realisation of what has happened. Nothing unusual here.

Couldn't sleep, felt the need to actively be doing something. His concern would be that William was out there alone, so as soon as it was light he wanted to be out there. To do otherwise would be more concerning to me.

You'll bring up the night before, because it's what you do. Different scenario - William is not out there alone, as others are still actively searching until dark. Other family members still need to eat. Red wine? Who knows, would depend on someone's normal habits.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Why?

If that was my son, I would have tossed and turned all night and barely slept. I would get up as soon as I could (dawn) and feel the need to do something practical - keep looking. I wouldn't care what the police had told me, or what medical episode I had experienced, I would get up and go and search.

Would have been a lot more worrying if he had a bit of a sleep-in and acted normal. That would indicate he felt it was pointless to search because he knew he wasn't there.

Getting up and going looking early is entirely normal. When though? WH turned up at 6 am and he wasn't home. I presume too she didn't see him on Benaroon drive either or would have recorded it. First light can be 30 minutes. So it's possible he went at first light..

But we have a missing child with FM as POI so it's definitely suspicious.

As an aside I've never accepted his conduct of crying in the bathroom rather than actively looking immediately upon arrival of LE.....within first 30 minutes..You are DRIVEN to look with fight and flight. I am suspicious his demeanor is indicative of acceptance W is dead..He did initial search then went in bathroom to deal with reality of his grief rather than be driven to look through fight and flight

Addendum:

Why did FM meet WH on the driveway? Was she looking at the driveway for evidence? A drop of blood perhaps? You usually go out to meet someone to avoid a further argument inside perhaps with say FGM. We know they had issues..perhaps those issues were about the abduction hoax and not reporting. You would definitely go to meet WH to avoid further flare ups..nothing conclusive of course. Interesting all the same

 

[Earls Smother]

I'm not sure anything incriminating would have been said in the house. The fosters demonstrated what might be an uncommon awareness of higher end surveillance tech when they wanted their vehicle checked by police for tracking devices, remember this was back in 2014.

I assume they'd be aware if they were under suspicion at all in the case of a missing child, one of the cops might have installed a listening device. Yes, without a warrant.

I think to be suspicious of having been tracked to Kendall would be a reasonable thing to think. Particularly given William had been taken previously. That's not "uncommon awareness", it's logical IMO.

They are looking for explanations. To not do so, would be more indicative of not bothering because you knew what had happened to him.

 

[Kurve]

Getting up and going looking early is entirely normal. When though? WH turned up at 6 am and he wasn't home. I presume too she didn't see him on Benaroon drive either or would have recorded it. First light can be 30 minutes. So it's possible he went at first light..

But we have a missing child with FM as POI so it's definitely suspicious.

As an aside I've never accepted his conduct of crying in the bathroom rather than actively looking immediately upon arrival of LE.....within first 30 minutes..You are DRIVEN to look with fight and flight. I am suspicious his demeanor is indicative of acceptance W is dead..He did initial search then went in bathroom to deal with reality of his grief rather than be driven to look through fight and flight

Being out all night looking or catching just a couple of hours sleep before heading out again, wouldn't be unusual imo.

I'd think the best chance to hear a lost child in the bush who might be in distress, would be after dark and through to sunrise.

 

[LRitz]

Let's look at the chronology of events from the FF perspective.
He returns home at 10:35 whereupon he is informed William is missing.
Then he visits the Millers. Then he searches the back yard and is heard calling William at ~ 10:40 while AMS is talking to FM. Then he sees FM and she asks him if she should call 000, which she does at ~ 10:57.
Then at 11:05 or soon after he is observed by police coming out of the FGM bathroom.
Witnesses describe his demeanour as 'distraught, frantic, upset'.
Several hours of searching take place. Dogs called in, neighbours rally. SES involvement. Police set up command post. Presumably police speak to him and counsel him?
Then in early evening he is observed having a home cooked dinner and drinking wine.
We know he suffered from anxiety and has medication for that on hand - he filled his prescription that very morning.
He has had 7 or 8 hours to process the situation and react.
Then something happens, causing an ambulance to be called.
What?
Could be anything, but the only people present seem to be FM, FGM and William's sister.
Was he told something which brought on an anxiety attack?
Granted this is all speculative, but what are the other possible explanations?
Then he is missing from the house at first light, on his own. Nobody knows where he went or when he returned.
Wouldn't police or ambos or even his wife have advised him that this is not a good idea?

Regarding medical/panic incident of FF on Friday night.
Maybe it was an act.
Maybe he sensed the look on SC Hudson's face when she saw them at the house having dinner.
Or, maybe he heard that FGM told police that FF had left at 8:00. No sorry, that's not correct. FGM said that days later in her (which way would I have gone) walkthrough.

 

[LRitz]

But does she mention the text in her statement?

From FM statement at 21. This is just after William is missing. She walks to the front of the house, up the other side and then back into the house. Then

21. I went inside and walked through calling out. Nothing. Around this time FF sent me a text message saying he will be here in 5 minutes

 

[Kurve]

I think to be suspicious of having been tracked to Kendall would be a reasonable thing to think. Particularly given William had been taken previously. That's not "uncommon awareness", it's logical IMO.

They are looking for explanations. To not do so, would be more indicative of not bothering because you knew what had happened to him.

It would be more logical for someone who works in and around LE or in the tech industry IMO.

My comment was more directed towards them saying anything incriminating in the house. If either were guilty of anything, they wouldn't have.

 

[Earls Smother]

Being out all night looking or catching just a couple of hours sleep before heading out again, wouldn't be unusual imo.

I'd think the best chance to hear a lost child in the bush who might be in distress, would be after dark and through to sunrise.

Yes, and if he'd been told that William was dead and multiple km's away, does anyone really think he'd pretend to look at the crack of dawn?

Some of the stuff (not you) getting thrown up as "evidence" against the Fosters, is just nonsensical. A lot of it is more supportive of normal human behaviour, whereby they have no idea what has happened and are searching for answers.

 

[Underarrest_]

Why?

If that was my son, I would have tossed and turned all night and barely slept. I would get up as soon as I could (dawn) and feel the need to do something practical - keep looking. I wouldn't care what the police had told me, or what medical episode I had experienced, I would get up and go and search.

Would have been a lot more worrying if he had a bit of a sleep-in and acted normal. That would indicate he felt it was pointless to search because he knew he wasn't there.

Of course having a anxiety attack once the reality set in could be attributed to William going missing.
You’d probably try and get some rest but how do you really do this if your son’s missing and if you did fall asleep it would be waking back up to the nightmare!!
Then what do you do? have some scrambled eggs and a coffee and wait for the news to come in or go and actively do something to find him.

 

[Earls Smother]

It would be more logical for someone who works in and around LE or in the tech industry IMO.

My comment was more directed towards them saying anything incriminating in the house. If either were guilty of anything, they wouldn't have.

They would have to have been unbelievably clever to never incriminate themselves.

GJ bugged their car after interviewing them both separately and was satisfied all was well. At some point, that type of judgement by an experienced Detective has to be accepted as valid.

 

[31550]

From FM statement at 21. This is just after William is missing. She walks to the front of the house, up the other side and then back into the house. Then

21. I went inside and walked through calling out. Nothing. Around this time FF sent me a text message saying he will be here in 5 minutes

Careful with the wording. She says the text was sent at this time. She doesn't say she saw the text at this time. (And she doesn't mention deleting it when she read it., as she seems to have done either).
But it's not definitive. If she did see the text at 10:30 then it shows she had already returned from her drive at this time, putting the time of the drive even earlier on the timeline.

 

[Kurve]

They would have to have been unbelievably clever to never incriminate themselves.

GJ bugged their car after interviewing them both separately and was satisfied all was well. At some point, that type of judgement by an experienced Detective has to be accepted as valid.

Yeh I've always maintained that if either of them was responsible for William vanishing, the other one probably isn't aware.

 

[31550]

Of course having a anxiety attack once the reality set in could be attributed to William going missing.
You’d probably try and get some rest but how do you really do this if your son’s missing and if you did fall asleep it would be waking back up to the nightmare!!
Then what do you do? have some scrambled eggs and a coffee and wait for the news to come in or go and actively do something to find him.

You would do exactly what the police (should have) told you to do, and stay at the home and in contact with the command post, or at least inform them exactly when and where you were going. SOP. In case William was sighted. In case the police need further information from you. For your own health and protection. Because you are not in a fit state of mind to materially assist with the search. Because you don't want to be under suspicion.

 

[Underarrest_]

You would do exactly what the police (should have) told you to do, and stay at the home and in contact with the command post, or at least inform them exactly when and where you were going. SOP. In case William was sighted. In case the police need further information from you. For your own health and protection. Because you are not in a fit state of mind to materially assist with the search. Because you don't want to be under suspicion.

All good in hindsight.
It’s possible he was reacting in the only way he knew too and wasn’t worried about it looking suspicious, otherwise he might have informed people (if anyone was at the command post) or stayed home like a good boy and waited for instructions.
In fairness to your post, it’s possible there’s other reasons but without knowing anything else or having any other evidence, this being normal human behaviour is more than probable.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Yes, and if he'd been told that William was dead and multiple km's away, does anyone really think he'd pretend to look at the crack of dawn?

Some of the stuff (not you) getting thrown up as "evidence" against the Fosters, is just nonsensical. A lot of it is more supportive of normal human behaviour, whereby they have no idea what has happened and are searching for answers.

No I don't think he was pretending. I think he was burying the body perhaps. More than one reason he might be up that early..yet at same time he DIDN'T search whilst crying in bathroom 30 minutes after he went missing. I for one believe that's very odd. You look until he is found. You stop looking when you know he's dead and make time for a cry .... you get up to 'look' early when police aren't there to possibly bury him.

 

[truecrimepath]

From FM statement at 21. This is just after William is missing. She walks to the front of the house, up the other side and then back into the house. Then

21. I went inside and walked through calling out. Nothing. Around this time FF sent me a text message saying he will be here in 5 minutes

In ‘one last roar’ she says the same thing. If her phone was off, this is not possible. No wonder she was asked about the phones in the crime commission. Was Craddock winding up the pressure? Was this the reason the podcast was subpoenaed?