Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

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Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:
  • Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
  • 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
  • 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
  • Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
  • Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty
TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone
 
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LRitz said:
As I understand it was a fairly basic digital camera. Some cameras do not even have the ability to store photos. I do not know if a camera would store information showing a change in settings. There is no reason a small camera would need this. Maybe their camera could store this information. I am happy to be corrected.
Do we know the make model of the camera?
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Ally Chumley reported it was a $200 Sony digital camera. She says it "wasn't a particularly complicated device.".

That's about all we know about the camera.

I wasn't suggesting the camera would store a history of changes to settings. I was suggesting that a thorough expert forensic examination of both the camera and the digital images on the camera would reveal if and when the camera's internal time had been changed since it was originally set in Bali. As far as I am aware the original forensic examination of the camera carried out by SFR suggested the time on the camera had never been changed since it was originally set (approximately 2 hours off Sydney time). The coroner (in 2019?) originally also accepted this position, however it was queried by William's bio father's legal representative, at which time the coroner ordered further investigation of the camera and photographs. We never heard the outcome of this further investigation. IMO it is safe to say the further investigation revealed nothing untoward, otherwise there would have immediately been prima facie evidence confirming FM involvement in William's disappearance, as her narrative has always been that the photos were taken at 9:37, not 7:39, and she had never changed the time on the camera. So, the consensus is that the camera time was never changed from Bali time.
 

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BFew said:
Inquest on.


‘During a directions hearing at the NSW Coroner’s Court at Lidcombe on Tuesday, Ms Grahame confirmed the date for the final block of hearings – the weeks starting November 4 and December 16.

The court was told on Tuesday that the witness list and list of issues was set to be finalised by this week.’
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See, 31550?
It seems like the Coroner has received your list of issues.
 
Does anyone know if we have the complete set of photos from the verandah? Were there any of FD too? I'll be honest..if what's supplied is the full set it's almost as though WT was intentionally the centre of attention BEFORE he went missing. They were all about him. The FD was merely captured in the background at times. So too FGM. That is and of itself interesting.
 
Angry Red Bull said:
Does anyone know if we have the complete set of photos from the verandah? Were there any of FD too? I'll be honest..if what's supplied is the full set it's almost as though WT was intentionally the centre of attention BEFORE he went missing. They were all about him. The FD was merely captured in the background at times. So too FGM. That is and of itself interesting.
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I believe only four out of the (alleged) five photographs taken on the verandah were publicly released. Note that if there were any photographs which did NOT have William in them, then these would not be expected to be released. Also note that various non-publication orders and privacy provisions of the Child Protection Act apply.

I do agree it's a bit 'random' to take several photos of William which aren't particularly interesting or flattering with the explanation of 'creating a scrapbook of family memories' (or words to that effect).
Where are the 'happy snap' photos of William and his sister with FM, FF, FGM as one would expect to see in a family album: posing, facing the camera, smiling, embracing each other ...?


I think it's possible FM was trying for such a photo but William would not co-operate. But neither FGM or his sister were looking at the camera and posing in the 4 shots provided.

It's also possible William was 'misbehaving' and the photos were taken as 'evidence' to show to FF (or threaten to show to FF)?

Whatever happened, it seems FM took four or five pics, then 'gave up' and made cups of tea instead. Or so the story goes.
 
A long-delayed inquest into the fate of missing toddler William Tyrrell will hear from a final group of witnesses before the end of the year.
...
A brief hearing in the NSW Coroners Court on Tuesday set two final hearing blocks to be held from November 4-8 and December 16-20 to complete the inquest.


So, the Inquest is scheduled to run for just two weeks. I don't see how they expect to wrap up ten years of investigation with a 'final group of witnesses' in just two weeks. It doesn't sound like SFR have any new evidence to present, and we've already heard from all the major players. Who are these 'final group of witnesses'?

It would take at least a week to go over FM's version of events alone, and then I would also like to hear from FF, AMS, William's sister, and anyone who may have witnessed 'the drive', to try to establish the actual timeline of events between 9:30 and 11:00 (if that is at all possible).

Have the interviews from the NSWCC ever been tabled as evidence to the Coroner? How do they line up with other statements?

How do we know the Inquest won't just hit a brick wall (again)?

I fear just another 'open verdict'.
 
Angry Red Bull said:
Does anyone know if we have the complete set of photos from the verandah? Were there any of FD too? I'll be honest..if what's supplied is the full set it's almost as though WT was intentionally the centre of attention BEFORE he went missing. They were all about him. The FD was merely captured in the background at times. So too FGM. That is and of itself interesting.
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And the last photo released is William roaring, ( number 6, Ref DSC 01106). This is a close up of William and then no more photos.

The photos released are numbered 2 to 6, so I assume that number 1 was not released. That does not mean that there could be more after number 6 that we can not see. These photos are taken between corrected time of 9:35 and 9:37:44. No photos of the kids having fun on their new bikes in the driveway.
 
31550 said:
......I think it's possible FM was trying for such a photo but William would not co-operate. But neither FGM or his sister were looking at the camera and posing in the 4 shots provided.

It's also possible William was 'misbehaving' and the photos were taken as 'evidence' to show to FF (or threaten to show to FF)?

.......Or so the story goes.
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Possible. But i think taking a photo to discuss or prove a 3 year old's behaviour would be very unusual. Any way, William looks a bit distracted, throwing crayons, sitting, not running around, not looking at the camera directly, not smiling for the photo - but this is not misbehaving.
 

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Maybe William was told to sit on the naughty step. (The floor)! FGM remarks seem to indicate she was not happy with him. FM may have told FD and FGM to ignore him. That could be why they are not looking at the camera. They might also be ignoring the person taking the photo.
I am perplexed why he wasn’t photo graphed riding his new bike.
Then that photo may bring attention to him riding a bike.
Odd! There is a person sitting on the stool on the top verandah photograph. Quite obvious that is a child risk factor. Who took that photograph?
 
31550 said:
A long-delayed inquest into the fate of missing toddler William Tyrrell will hear from a final group of witnesses before the end of the year.
...
A brief hearing in the NSW Coroners Court on Tuesday set two final hearing blocks to be held from November 4-8 and December 16-20 to complete the inquest.


So, the Inquest is scheduled to run for just two weeks. I don't see how they expect to wrap up ten years of investigation with a 'final group of witnesses' in just two weeks.
Click to expand...

It reminds me of a movie that’s gone on for hours and hours and then the entire storyline gets all wrapped up in the last 10 minutes and as an audience member you just get a sense that the pace is all wrong.
31550 said:
It doesn't sound like SFR have any new evidence to present, and we've already heard from all the major players. Who are these 'final group of witnesses'?
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I think they’re mostly Kendall locals. IMO

But I’m also thinking there will be expert witnesses. Maybe AFP personnel or a soil expert or some other para professional that assisted on the big dig. Then I’m also thinking there will be a few wild cards making their way out of the woodwork.

Moo
31550 said:
It would take at least a week to go over FM's version of events alone, and then I would also like to hear from FF, AMS, William's sister, and anyone who may have witnessed 'the drive', to try to establish the actual timeline of events between 9:30 and 11:00 (if that is at all possible).

Have the interviews from the NSWCC ever been tabled as evidence to the Coroner? How do they line up with other statements?
Click to expand...
They might have been subpoenaed and are sitting in a large box somewhere? Idk
31550 said:
How do we know the Inquest won't just hit a brick wall (again)?

I fear just another 'open verdict'.
Click to expand...

I’m scared that it won’t get solved. And I’m scared that it will get solved.

On one hand: I’m scared to know what happened to William, but on the other have - not knowing is just unacceptable, especially for his family.
 
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Angry Red Bull said:
Does anyone know if we have the complete set of photos from the verandah? Were there any of FD too? I'll be honest..if what's supplied is the full set it's almost as though WT was intentionally the centre of attention BEFORE he went missing. They were all about him. The FD was merely captured in the background at times. So too FGM. That is and of itself interesting.
Click to expand...
I’ve heard there were no other photos taken that day by the FM.
 
Wallace52 said:
It reminds me of a movie that’s gone on for hours and hours and then the entire storyline gets all wrapped up in the last 10 minutes and as an audience member you just get a sense that the pace is all wrong.
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Spot on. Or a TV series ( like "LOST"?) which starts off with a unique plot and interesting characters, mysteries, twists and turns, inserting the odd "cliff-hanger" at the end of each season to suck you in. Then they start inventing "alternative realities", going backward and forward in time, so you don't know what is real and what is imaginary. Then they wrap it up with just one final episode which supposedly explains everything but really doesn't. ("We just imagined the whole thing.")
 
Wallace52 said:
I’ve heard there were no other photos taken that day by the FM.
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Ok. That is very interesting. It almost appears that they were final photos before they knew he'd be gone. He was centre of attention.

These parents are dysfunctional.. This was their last hope to be parents..William was a handful and if they failed and had to hand him back there would be high chance that they would never get another chance. Is it possible they organised privately to have him taken away by childless couple who then happened to be seen by RC driving two cars at speed? That would explain nonchalant play FM and child afterwards heard by Savage, the speed of police reporting 25 mins.

The RC sighting has always bothered me. Early cognitive decline usually entails poor memory recall NOT imagining seeing something you didn't see!! Yes I understand the argument of false memory. I don't believe it is. False memories fail to have detail and are vague..Real memories have that detail. With RC 4 things point to fact the memory was real.

  • Detail of WT standing in back seat without seatbelts hands against window.
    * The detailed description of the woman
  • Detail given about the manner the cars traversed the corner and what he felt about it
  • Detail about the car fishtailing and hitting a gravel patch near his house

These are examples of the sort of detail characteristics of a real memory imo.
 
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Angry Red Bull said:
Ok. That is very interesting. It almost appears that they were final photos before they knew he'd be gone. He was centre of attention.
Click to expand...

Possibly.

I think they were definitely his final photos.
Angry Red Bull said:
These parents are dysfunctional.. This was their last hope to be parents..William was a handful and if they failed and had to hand him back there would be high chance that they would never get another chance. Is it possible they organised privately to have him taken away by childless couple who then happened to be seen by RC driving two cars at speed? That would explain nonchalant play FM and child afterwards heard by Savage, the speed of police reporting 25 mins.
Click to expand...

Horrible things like child abductions can still happen to dysfunctional parents.
Angry Red Bull said:
The RC sighting has always bothered me. Early cognitive decline usually entails poor memory recall NOT imagining seeing something you didn't see!! Yes I understand the argument of false memory. I don't believe it is. False memories fail to have detail and are vague..Real memories have that detail. With RC 4 things point to fact the memory was real.

  • Detail of WT standing in back seat without seatbelts hands against window.
    * The detailed description of the woman
  • Detail given about the manner the cars traversed the corner and what he felt about it
  • Detail about the car fishtailing and hitting a gravel patch near his house

These are examples of the sort of detail characteristics of a real memory imo.
Click to expand...

Yes. I think RC reported sighting of the boy in the Spider-Man costume may have been accurate.

But iirc there was another little boy in Kendall dressed up as Spider-Man that day

Hopefully the witnesses at the upcoming inquest will clear things up for us.
 
Wallace52 said:
Yes. I think RC reported sighting of the boy in the Spider-Man costume may have been accurate.

But iirc there was another little boy in Kendall dressed up as Spider-Man that day

Hopefully the witnesses at the upcoming inquest will clear things up for us.
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It's an extraordinary coincidence:
  • A young boy in a Spiderman suit in Kendall, only a couple of blocks from Benaroon, at exactly the same time. And taking a route which would have avoided the tennis club CCTV.
  • But why did it take so long for RC to come forward?
  • Why did the police never knock on his door? They were supposed to interview everyone in the area.
  • Did SFR ever try to identify the cars or drivers?
  • Did SFR ever confirm the identity of the 'other boy' in the Spiderman suit?
  • Why did RC never discuss the sighting with close friends and family? His close family staying with him at the time had no recollection of the sighting.
  • How did two cars (whose descriptions do not match those allegedly seen by FM) enter and leave Benaroon Drive with William without any of the neighbours seeing or hearing them?

Bit of a 'perfect storm' if it's all true.
 
31550 said:
It's an extraordinary coincidence:
  • A young boy in a Spiderman suit in Kendall, only a couple of blocks from Benaroon, at exactly the same time. And taking a route which would have avoided the tennis club CCTV.
  • But why did it take so long for RC to come forward?
  • Why did the police never knock on his door? They were supposed to interview everyone in the area.
  • Did SFR ever try to identify the cars or drivers?
  • Did SFR ever confirm the identity of the 'other boy' in the Spiderman suit?
  • Why did RC never discuss the sighting with close friends and family? His close family staying with him at the time had no recollection of the sighting.
  • How did two cars (whose descriptions do not match those allegedly seen by FM) enter and leave Benaroon Drive with William without any of the neighbours seeing or hearing them?

Bit of a 'perfect storm' if it's all true.
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Your questions are excellent but I don’t know the answers to them.

I think maybe RC saw a different little boy in a Spider-Man suit, but maybe I am wrong.

I don’t truly think William is a victim of a stranger abduction or even a planned abduction set up by the foster parents.

I’m naively hoping the inquest will lead us to the truth.
 
One day………..let’s hope we will not be excluded from ALL THE FACTS ALL IDENTITIES in this very sad episode of poor amateur investigation and an out dated legal system. That people will not be able to hide behind ridiculous excuses. Let’s hope some one stumbles upon information of what happened to you William.
 
js47 said:
One day………..let’s hope we will not be excluded from ALL THE FACTS ALL IDENTITIES in this very sad episode of poor amateur investigation and an out dated legal system. That people will not be able to hide behind ridiculous excuses. Let’s hope some one stumbles upon information of what happened to you William.
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The non publication orders and suppression orders will still be in place. IMO.
 
Wallace52 said:
Your questions are excellent but I don’t know the answers to them.

I think maybe RC saw a different little boy in a Spider-Man suit, but maybe I am wrong.

I don’t truly think William is a victim of a stranger abduction or even a planned abduction set up by the foster parents.

I’m naively hoping the inquest will lead us to the truth.
Click to expand...
If I recall correctly, they looked into that other little boy in the Spider-Man suit, and decided he was not aligned to RC’s sighting.

And to be perfectly honest, if it was that little boy & his Mum, would she not have reported someone driving like a lunatic behind her when she was questioned ? ?
 
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Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

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