Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[js47]

Hope I get to read L’s book because I bet there is going to be one. I hope it is like an exploding volcano. I hope we see new elements added that will clear up many unanswered questions.

 

[31550]

The Inquest is scheduled for the end of the year, and parties have explicitly stated it will hear from "the final group of witnesses". IMO a 'line in the sand' has been drawn, and SFR and the public now have only a couple of months to 'put up or shut up'. It seems that after 10 years NSWPOL and the Judiciary are fed up with William's case, and want it off their books. I can't see anything other than an 'open verdict' being returned. In other words, "We give up!"

I am afraid Detective Superintendent Scott Cook's words in 2017 may prove to be true:

Mr Jubelin told the court that in 2017, Detective Superintendent Scott Cook pointed to a picture of Tyrrell and said: "No-one cares about that little kid. Get him off the books. Get him to unsolved homicide".

'Get him off the books': Former detective makes shock William Tyrrell claim in court

Former detective Gary Jubelin tells a court a senior police officer told him to get the case of William Tyrrell "off the books" and that "no-one cares" about the missing boy.

www.abc.net.au

 

[js47]

The Inquest is scheduled for the end of the year, and parties have explicitly stated it will hear from "the final group of witnesses". IMO a 'line in the sand' has been drawn, and SFR and the public now have only a couple of months to 'put up or shut up'. It seems that after 10 years NSWPOL and the Judiciary are fed up with William's case, and want it off their books. I can't see anything other than an 'open verdict' being returned. In other words, "We give up!"

I am afraid Detective Superintendent Scott Cook's words in 2017 may prove to be true:

Mr Jubelin told the court that in 2017, Detective Superintendent Scott Cook pointed to a picture of Tyrrell and said: "No-one cares about that little kid. Get him off the books. Get him to unsolved homicide".

'Get him off the books': Former detective makes shock William Tyrrell claim in court

Former detective Gary Jubelin tells a court a senior police officer told him to get the case of William Tyrrell "off the books" and that "no-one cares" about the missing boy.

www.abc.net.au

That is why I hope L writes a book. I think the fosters think it will all be over at the end of the year. Hate to tell them there is a ticking time bomb just sitting there waiting to go off. It will be interesting WHO sets off the charge.
Some time someone will find this has been and interesting case and solve it.

 

[31550]

That is why I hope L writes a book. I think the fosters think it will all be over at the end of the year. Hate to tell them there is a ticking time bomb just sitting there waiting to go off. It will be interesting WHO sets off the charge.
Some time someone will find this has been and interesting case and solve it.

I don't think she's likely to write a book as you suggest.

• She may want to remain private and avoid public and media attention
• She may have no clear recollection of events
• She may have no interest in pursuing the case, and want to leave it in her past
• If her book was to potentially cast any shade on the fosters, or SFR, or FACS, or any other party, she would risk complex and potentially expensive legal repercussions. She'd need a PR company of her own just to deal with Insight.
• Potential publishers would cave to political and legal pressure and the book would be unlikely to see the light of day.

 

[LRitz]

We are approaching the 12th September.
I took a photo outside a bit after 9:35, and it is really sunny and lots of shadows.My photo is facing approximately north east. It would be interesting to have someone take some photos in the morning at this time of year back at Benaroon Drivedrive.View attachment 2102336

 

[LRitz]

From article in ABC news today:
.".....(criminologist) Dr Mallett believes the only possible conclusion for the inquest will be for the coroner to make an open finding, which means the case remains unsolved and no cause of death is determined."

Why we may never know what happened to William Tyrrell

A decade after the boy in the Spider-Man suit vanished from his foster grandmother's home on the NSW Mid North Coast, police are no closer to finding him.

www.abc.net.au

 

[BFew]

I suspect that Dr Mallett is spot on with her prediction of an open finding from the upcoming resumption of the inquest.

Why we may never know what happened to William Tyrrell

A decade after the boy in the Spider-Man suit vanished from his foster grandmother's home on the NSW Mid North Coast, police are no closer to finding him.

www.abc.net.au

...​

Early mistakes​

In hindsight, the investigation into William's disappearance was flawed from the very first day.

It is likely one of the many reasons we still don't know what happened to him.

William Tyrrell should be starting high school around now. (NSW Police Media)

Police initially assumed he had simply wandered off into the bush, and by the time they considered an alternative, it was too late to preserve evidence at the crime scene.

The search party, family members and emergency services wandered through the property in the hours after he went missing, contaminating any forensic clues which may have been left behind.
...
As a result of the Tyrrell case, NSW Police now have a mandate to treat a missing child as a possible abduction or homicide until proven otherwise.
...
The evidence police have against William's foster mother is expected to be heard at a two-week hearing in November and December.

Dr Mallett said that evidence was unlikely to result in any charges or closure.

"I do get the sense that if police had enough evidence to charge William's foster mother in relation to this, that would've happened by now," Dr Mallett said.

"I'm sadly not expecting it will bring us any closer to determining what happened to William or who's responsible."

Dr Mallett believes the only possible conclusion for the inquest will be for the coroner to make an open finding, which means the case remains unsolved and no cause of death is determined.
...'

 

[LRitz]

....The evidence police have against William's foster mother is expected to be heard at a two-week hearing in November and December.

Dr Mallett said that evidence was unlikely to result in any charges or closure......

My guess- there will not be any new evidence.
Maybe they can say that some of the FM statements are inconsistent, confusing, and unreliable ( as is the FGM's and FF's) but this is already known. Not enough for charges.

 

[Wallace52]

From article in ABC news today:
.".....(criminologist) Dr Mallett believes the only possible conclusion for the inquest will be for the coroner to make an open finding, which means the case remains unsolved and no cause of death is determined."

Why we may never know what happened to William Tyrrell

A decade after the boy in the Spider-Man suit vanished from his foster grandmother's home on the NSW Mid North Coast, police are no closer to finding him.

www.abc.net.au

Ah well, I suppose Dr Mallett has not seen the evidence before the corner.

IMO

 

[js47]

Ah well, I suppose Dr Mallett has not seen the evidence before the corner.

IMO

good one Wallace

 

[Kurve]

We never did find out what the fresh evidence was, that had the police back at the Benaroon Drive property and Batar Creek Road, did we?

 

[31550]

Ah well, I suppose Dr Mallett has not seen the evidence before the corner.

IMO

That evidence if it exists will not be put before the coroner until the end of the year when the inquest reconvenes. Bear in mind the inquest is only interested in the means and circumstances of William's assumed death. It is not there to apportion blame to any party.

 

[Awakening]

Unfortunately I believe this is the end of the road. Coroner will rule open finding. The recent investigation into FM was police’s last roll of the dice. Whilst they may have got some evidence, it’s not enough to press charges.

 

[Kurve]

This in August 5 years ago. The coroner will probably stick with the line that William was removed in a vehicle by a sneaky, complex offender and perhaps delve in to the FMs trips on and off the property before the police got there.

Who knows, of the remaining witnesses to be heard there might be something fresh, the foster daughter? Someone else who's came forward with new information?

If the Coroner decides to make a referral to the police at the end of it all, that might give the ODPP more confidence in laying a charge.

If I think it all looks a bit hopeless and the finding will sadly, be likely left open.

Counsel Assisting Gerard Craddock SC opened a second round of hearings at the NSW Coroners Court in western Sydney with the conclusion that: "William was taken and removed from the vicinity in a car".

Mr Craddock said it was not rational to think that William could have kept ahead of police, emergency services or flocks of citizens involved in the initial search for the three-year-old when he vanished on September 12, 2014.

William Tyrrell abducted in a car by an offender who chose to 'act on their desires', inquest hears

Toddler William Tyrrell, who vanished from his foster grandmother's home in the sleepy town of Kendall almost five years ago, was likely abducted by someone who chose to "act on their desires", an inquest into his disappearance hears.

www.abc.net.au

 

[LRitz]

This in August 5 years ago. The coroner will probably stick with the line that William was removed in a vehicle by a sneaky, complex offender and perhaps delve in to the FMs trips on and off the property before the police got there.

Who knows, of the remaining witnesses to be heard there might be something fresh, the foster daughter? Someone else who's came forward with new information?

If the Coroner decides to make a referral to the police at the end of it all, that might give the ODPP more confidence in laying a charge.

If I think it all looks a bit hopeless and the finding will sadly, be likely left open.

Counsel Assisting Gerard Craddock SC opened a second round of hearings at the NSW Coroners Court in western Sydney with the conclusion that: "William was taken and removed from the vicinity in a car".

Mr Craddock said it was not rational to think that William could have kept ahead of police, emergency services or flocks of citizens involved in the initial search for the three-year-old when he vanished on September 12, 2014.

William Tyrrell abducted in a car by an offender who chose to 'act on their desires', inquest hears

Toddler William Tyrrell, who vanished from his foster grandmother's home in the sleepy town of Kendall almost five years ago, was likely abducted by someone who chose to "act on their desires", an inquest into his disappearance hears.

www.abc.net.au

In this article it says the conclusion:
"William was taken and removed from the vicinity in a car".

also:......
"...Research from the US found in 97 per cent of homicides involving children under five, the victim was murdered by a family member. But the inquest was told that was unlikely in this case, and William was probably put in a car and driven away by someone else. "If William was murdered, and it's a big if, it may be one of those rare cases of 3 per cent," Mr Craddock said."

There are two cars that we know left Benaroon drive that morning. If the investigation has not found other unaccounted or suspicious cars in the vicinity, or arriving and leaving Kendall then........

 

[js47]

Mr Craddock believed William could not have kept ahead of police SES and flocks of people.
Well William has, because… he has not been found.

 

[Awakening]

I think it’s a reasonable assumption he was removed from the house in a vehicle.

Apparently no evidence of the child anywhere.

Fits the dogs finding his scent on the property but not beyond.

You would think if he was removed from a car on the road, he’s scent would have been found beyond the property on the road.

Unless the kidnapper pulled into the driveway or the kidnapper was one of the adults on the property.

 

[31550]

I think it’s a reasonable assumption he was removed from the house in a vehicle.

Apparently no evidence of the child anywhere.

Fits the dogs finding his scent on the property but not beyond.

You would think if he was removed from a car on the road, he’s scent would have been found beyond the property on the road.

Unless the kidnapper pulled into the driveway or the kidnapper was one of the adults on the property.

When you eliminate all the impossible and highly improbable scenarios, you are left with very few options:

1. Wandered off or ran away and got lost. - No scent off the property. 3YO could not get far in such a short time. Searchers would have found him or his body eventually. "Not a wanderer."

2. Abduction: (a) Planned Hardly anyone knew he was going to be there. With the $1M reward, someone would have known something and come forward by now. SFR investigated anyone who might have known William was in Kendall.
(b) Opportunistic The location is too remote, and quiet, with only one way in and out. Very few people had a reason to be in that location at that time. If William was only out of sight for a few minutes, what are the chances of an opportunistic predator being in that place at that exact time.

3. Death by accident or homicide on the property and cover-up. There is no witness to such an event. But it's possible. Access to vehicles Possible motives for coverup - criminal charges, loss of reputation, financial loss, loss of other foster child Red flags - No reliable account of events between 10:00 and 10:30 Injury to FM hand Persistent narrative that 'everyone was happy' Inconsistencies in stories about timing of events Shoes worn or not worn

One can make a strong case that 1. and 2. are near impossible. One can argue that 3. is entirely possible and there is circumstantial evidence which supports 3 and none of the alternatives.

 

[shorsky]

When you eliminate all the impossible and highly improbable scenarios, you are left with very few options:

1. Wandered off or ran away and got lost. - No scent off the property. 3YO could not get far in such a short time. Searchers would have found him or his body eventually. "Not a wanderer."

2. Abduction: (a) Planned Hardly anyone knew he was going to be there. With the $1M reward, someone would have known something and come forward by now. SFR investigated anyone who might have known William was in Kendall.
(b) Opportunistic The location is too remote, and quiet, with only one way in and out. Very few people had a reason to be in that location at that time. If William was only out of sight for a few minutes, what are the chances of an opportunistic predator being in that place at that exact time.

3. Death by accident or homicide on the property and cover-up. There is no witness to such an event. But it's possible. Access to vehicles Possible motives for coverup - criminal charges, loss of reputation, financial loss, loss of other foster child Red flags - No reliable account of events between 10:00 and 10:30 Injury to FM hand Persistent narrative that 'everyone was happy' Inconsistencies in stories about timing of events Shoes worn or not worn

One can make a strong case that 1. and 2. are near impossible. One can argue that 3. is entirely possible and there is circumstantial evidence which supports 3 and none of the alternatives.

I’ve always wanted to know more about the discovery ( or not) of William’s scent.

When did they search for his Scent
What did they use to get his ‘scent’ in order to match for detection
Who / what did the search - skill of the dog etc
Where exactly was William’s scent found ie where inside the house, where outside the house, where in the yard, on the climbing tree, bikes etc., inside which vehicles
Where exactly was his scent not found; where did it stop ie did it immediately stop at the very end of the driveway, or at a point in the yard or at a point on a side boundary ? Or did it stop mid-driveway as if he rode to there on his bike, then turned around and went back for example. Was it found in the garden he's said to have ‘deliberately’ crashed his bike into. … which I’m sure he did because all the 3 year old boys I know are such proficient bike riders that there’s no way I could entertain a perfectly legitimate ‘topple’ ( tongue in cheek, much )

 

[Underarrest_]

I agree with the death by homicide or cover up as most likely scenario.
Also that an abduction is more unlikely,
but unless it was by someone who knew William and could have been waiting to take him, and/or was a FP involved.
I’m going to share a genuine story about a call I made to crime stoppers.
I’ll try and keep it short.
I was at a shopping centre in Qld in 2016, and I walked out of the toilet cubicle into the main toilet area to wash my hands.
As I was walking towards the basins, a lady with a young boy was standing at the taps, he was washing his hands.
I know that we can all think we’d seen someone before, but, my stomach just churned as I saw this boy in the mirror and I then looked towards this lady who started rapidly talking to me. I don’t think I could have hidden the look on my face.
This lady both looked and spoke like someone (who is known to William.)
The boy walked out of the toilets (his back to us) and she kept back and continued to talk to me quite rapidly. I felt like it was a distraction. All the while I’m trying to be polite and converse with her because in the back of my mind I’m thinking nooo this couldn’t be them.
We parted and even after catching back up with my family at the food court (and telling them) I couldn’t shake this sick feeling and even went back to see if I could see them again.
To this day my stomach still churns when I think about it.
At the time, when I reported it and nothing came of it, I let it go because I thought it would have been followed up.
Anyway time will tell and police seem to be on to the FM.
Sorry tried to keep it short.
Just wanted to add, is there any evidence that William was wearing this bright iconic Spider-Man suit when he left the property and
The FGM in her walkthrough interview was asked by the police did you hear him again when he went around the corner. She said, Noooo.... (The boys three years old, out of sight, can’t hear him but you continue to sit on the patio?)

 

[31550]

Was it found in the garden he's said to have ‘deliberately’ crashed his bike into. … which I’m sure he did because all the 3 year old boys I know are such proficient bike riders that there’s no way I could entertain a perfectly legitimate ‘topple’ ( tongue in cheek, much )

Of course he 'deliberately' crashed his bike. It's embedded in the narrative.

• 3YOs always 'deliberately' crash their bikes, even if they are scared of climbing trees, and "head-shy"
• William was a naughty kid with ADD and wanted to deliberately damage FGMs plants
• FM was supervising him so closely and carefully, he couldn't have done it by accident
• William had never ridden that bike before or at FGM's property, but he knew the garden so well it must have been deliberate
• FM would never have pushed him into the garden, because she was a perfect, caring and patient parent

 

[Awakening]

I agree with the death by homicide or cover up as most likely scenario.
Also that an abduction is more unlikely,
but unless it was by someone who knew William and could have been waiting to take him, and/or was a FP involved.
I’m going to share a genuine story about a call I made to crime stoppers.
I’ll try and keep it short.
I was at a shopping centre in Qld in 2016, and I walked out of the toilet cubicle into the main toilet area to wash my hands.
As I was walking towards the basins, a lady with a young boy was standing at the taps, he was washing his hands.
I know that we can all think we’d seen someone before, but, my stomach just churned as I saw this boy in the mirror and I then looked towards this lady who started rapidly talking to me. I don’t think I could have hidden the look on my face.
This lady both looked and spoke like someone (who is known to William.)
The boy walked out of the toilets (his back to us) and she kept back and continued to talk to me quite rapidly. I felt like it was a distraction. All the while I’m trying to be polite and converse with her because in the back of my mind I’m thinking nooo this couldn’t be them.
We parted and even after catching back up with my family at the food court (and telling them) I couldn’t shake this sick feeling and even went back to see if I could see them again.
To this day my stomach still churns when I think about it.
At the time, when I reported it and nothing came of it, I let it go because I thought it would have been followed up.
Anyway time will tell and police seem to be on to the FM.
Sorry tried to keep it short.
Just wanted to add, is there any evidence that William was wearing this bright iconic Spider-Man suit when he left the property and
The FGM in her walkthrough interview was asked by the police did you hear him again when he went around the corner. She said, Noooo.... (The boys three years old, out of sight, can’t hear him but you continue to sit on the patio?)

I would contact police or even Crimestoppers or the coroners office again, because unfortunately things do get missed or not followed up for a variety of reasons.

The lady you describe as being known to William, do you mean a biological relative?

 

[Underarrest_]

I would contact police or even Crimestoppers or the coroners office again, because unfortunately things do get missed or not followed up for a variety of reasons.

The lady you describe as being known to William, do you mean a biological relative?

I think you’re right about things getting missed, as it seems Detectives were focused on certain scenarios at the time.
I’ll just say it wasn’t a biological relative but rather someone connected to the family with wider circles. These wider circles are very coincidental IMO.
I guess it depends what evidence Detectives have now as they’re presuming William is deceased. I do wonder if the evidence is in relation to witnesses seeing the foster Mother when she went for a drive and items found, and if it’s in relation to the Spider-Man outfit, and if so, is there any evidence William was wearing it at the time he left the property?
There’s something really weird about this case and I think anything’s possible.

 

[31550]

I think you’re right about things getting missed, as it seems Detectives were focused on certain scenarios at the time.
I’ll just say it wasn’t a biological relative but rather someone connected to the family with wider circles. These wider circles are very coincidental IMO.
I guess it depends what evidence Detectives have now as they’re presuming William is deceased. I do wonder if the evidence is in relation to witnesses seeing the foster Mother when she went for a drive and items found, and if it’s in relation to the Spider-Man outfit, and if so, is there any evidence William was wearing it at the time he left the property?
There’s something really weird about this case and I think anything’s possible.

Things certainly appear to have been missed, or have at least been kept hidden from the public, without any particular apparent reason.
For example, Wendy Hudson's case notes describe a witness (identified by name and phone number) who was out bike riding and spotted what appeared to be a Spiderman suit on a fence in the area, only a few days after William's disappearance. There have never been media reports of this, or its investigation and outcome.

 

[Kurve]

I agree with the death by homicide or cover up as most likely scenario.
Also that an abduction is more unlikely,
but unless it was by someone who knew William and could have been waiting to take him, and/or was a FP involved.
I’m going to share a genuine story about a call I made to crime stoppers.
I’ll try and keep it short.
I was at a shopping centre in Qld in 2016, and I walked out of the toilet cubicle into the main toilet area to wash my hands.
As I was walking towards the basins, a lady with a young boy was standing at the taps, he was washing his hands.
I know that we can all think we’d seen someone before, but, my stomach just churned as I saw this boy in the mirror and I then looked towards this lady who started rapidly talking to me. I don’t think I could have hidden the look on my face.
This lady both looked and spoke like someone (who is known to William.)
The boy walked out of the toilets (his back to us) and she kept back and continued to talk to me quite rapidly. I felt like it was a distraction. All the while I’m trying to be polite and converse with her because in the back of my mind I’m thinking nooo this couldn’t be them.
We parted and even after catching back up with my family at the food court (and telling them) I couldn’t shake this sick feeling and even went back to see if I could see them again.
To this day my stomach still churns when I think about it.
At the time, when I reported it and nothing came of it, I let it go because I thought it would have been followed up.
Anyway time will tell and police seem to be on to the FM.
Sorry tried to keep it short.
Just wanted to add, is there any evidence that William was wearing this bright iconic Spider-Man suit when he left the property and
The FGM in her walkthrough interview was asked by the police did you hear him again when he went around the corner. She said, Noooo.... (The boys three years old, out of sight, can’t hear him but you continue to sit on the patio?)

Interestingly, this sighting where a photo was taken was also in Queensland in the two years following William's disappearance.

More than 1,000 suspected sightings were reported to the investigation team in the two years after Tyrrell disappeared. They include a photo taken of a man and a young boy from Queensland, the latter of whom looked strikingly similar to Tyrrell.

Disappearance of William Tyrrell - Wikipedia​