Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Underarrest_]

She cut off the visitation for William’s sister for a very long time after William went missing.

I don’t know how she managed that, but she did.

The foster mum talks in interviews about L being an “only child” after William went missing. Like oh she has to now learn to live as an only child. Which is absolutely insane because she has biological siblings the whole time - she just wasn’t allowed to see them.

Who would do that to a child?

I didn’t know this. Good question, how did she manage this?

 

[js47]

Everything FM says is copy cut and paste.
It’s time she sits down as a mother who loved William more than any one else loved their child and walk a straight path.

 

[Wallace52]

Another child in the family and L was upset about it?
WHO? stoped access to bios for L
I am livid at that information. Well it didn’t work did it?

No, it didn’t seem to work out very well.

 

[Wallace52]

Everything FM says is copy cut and paste.
It’s time she sits down as a mother who loved William more than any one else loved their child and walk a straight path.

No one is saying she didn’t love him.
You can’t put together a brief for not loving someone. It’s not a crime to not love your foster child.

The police aren’t saying she didn’t love him. They are saying, yeah as you said, do the right thing for William.

They’ve said many times they know what she’s done. I believe them.

If she has done something, she should be honest about what has happened.

 

[js47]

It seems FM has had help with statements and when she needs to insert something into her narrative she just copies cut and pastes.
I don’t think she has an original thought about William in her repertoire.
I think she has a hide to say the police haven’t done anything on 5 years.
Neither has she, FM could have answered vital questions 10 years ago.

 

[Underarrest_]

No one is saying she didn’t love him.
You can’t put together a brief for not loving someone. It’s not a crime to not love your foster child.

The police aren’t saying she didn’t love him. They are saying, yeah as you said, do the right thing for William.

They’ve said many times they know what she’s done. I believe them.

If she has done something, she should be honest about what has happened.

This is just my personal opinion (not against yours) but I don’t think if there was an accident (whether it was a simple accident or the result of escalating violent behaviour) and FM did, as in her own words, dump ‘his little body’ that she did love him.
Especially not to go on a 10 year campaign giving some hope for William when she knows what happened to him and where he is.
I know I couldn’t think of one reason not to give a child a proper goodbye and there would be only one reason for it if guilty, self preservation.
I don’t think there’s any hope that if guilty, she will tell where he is because her own needs are above William’s and anyone who knows him. That’s not love.
I think the police know this and already have a psychological profile of what sort of person who would do this, (if she has done this.)

 

[Awakening]

It’s been said on here before but I will say it again. I hope L successfully sues the fosters, the agencies and the government.

 

[Wallace52]

This is just my personal opinion (not against yours) but I don’t think if there was an accident (whether it was a simple accident or the result of escalating violent behaviour) and FM did, as in her own words, dump ‘his little body’ that she did love him.
Especially not to go on a 10 year campaign giving some hope for William when she knows what happened to him and where he is.
I know I couldn’t think of one reason not to give a child a proper goodbye and there would be only one reason for it if guilty, self preservation.
I don’t think there’s any hope that if guilty, she will tell where he is because her own needs are above William’s and anyone who knows him. That’s not love.
I think the police know this and already have a psychological profile of what sort of person who would do this, (if she has done this.)

You’re right. You’re completely right.

 

[Wallace52]

It’s been said on here before but I will say it again. I hope L successfully sues the fosters, the agencies and the government.

Me too.

Let’s pretend she’s getting ready to sue FACS, Michelle White, the fosters and the NSW Gov, then episode 2 of the Witness podcasts will give her lawyers some great copy. Especially that bit about the worker who took William from the bio family and gave him to the hospital and then the fosters to care for him, saying himself that they knew that the Tyrrell family were “sh**” and “ordinary.” That worker sounded more unprofessional than what I had even expected a worker to behave or speak like.

Like that’s any reason to take the children.

Imagine if all of the sh* and ordinary parents just got their kids taken from them, never to be returned. Sh* and ordinary should not be the threshold for removal.

That person was so abhorrent to listen to and but that interview gave a great insight into what I view as the sheer senselessness of L and William’s placement into out of home care. IMO

It’s a whole new stolen generation, and white or black, it still needs to be acknowledged.

Imagine what William’s sister has been through, losing her brother and having to stay with the carers who lost him.

If L never went into care, her life may not have ended up being such a nightmare. She will never get her childhood back.

What price would you put on 11 years of your life, gone? She was 11 or 12 I think when the fosters had all of their foster children taken off them.

I hope if she does sue she’ll get a bucket-load of money but most of all the acknowledgment that the wrong decisions were made.

 

[Awakening]

Me too.

Let’s pretend she’s getting ready to sue FACS, Michelle White, the fosters and the NSW Gov, then episode 2 of the Witness podcasts will give her lawyers some great copy. Especially that bit about the worker who took William from the bio family and gave him to the hospital and then the fosters to care for him, saying himself that they knew that the Tyrrell family were “sh**” and “ordinary.” That worker sounded more unprofessional than what I had even expected a worker to behave or speak like.

Like that’s any reason to take the children.

Imagine if all of the sh* and ordinary parents just got their kids taken from them, never to be returned. Sh* and ordinary should not be the threshold for removal.

That person was so abhorrent to listen to and but that interview gave a great insight into what I view as the sheer senselessness of L and William’s placement into out of home care. IMO

It’s a whole new stolen generation, and white or black, it still needs to be acknowledged.

Imagine what William’s sister has been through, losing her brother and having to stay with the carers who lost him.

If L never went into care, her life may not have ended up being such a nightmare. She will never get her childhood back.

What price would you put on 11 years of your life, gone? She was 11 or 12 I think when the fosters had all of their foster children taken off them.

I hope if she does sue she’ll get a bucket-load of money but most of all the acknowledgment that the wrong decisions were made.

It makes me so ****ing angry

 

[js47]

Me too.

Let’s pretend she’s getting ready to sue FACS, Michelle White, the fosters and the NSW Gov, then episode 2 of the Witness podcasts will give her lawyers some great copy. Especially that bit about the worker who took William from the bio family and gave him to the hospital and then the fosters to care for him, saying himself that they knew that the Tyrrell family were “sh**” and “ordinary.” That worker sounded more unprofessional than what I had even expected a worker to behave or speak like.

Like that’s any reason to take the children.

Imagine if all of the sh* and ordinary parents just got their kids taken from them, never to be returned. Sh* and ordinary should not be the threshold for removal.

That person was so abhorrent to listen to and but that interview gave a great insight into what I view as the sheer senselessness of L and William’s placement into out of home care. IMO

It’s a whole new stolen generation, and white or black, it still needs to be acknowledged.

Imagine what William’s sister has been through, losing her brother and having to stay with the carers who lost him.

If L never went into care, her life may not have ended up being such a nightmare. She will never get her childhood back.

What price would you put on 11 years of your life, gone? She was 11 or 12 I think when the fosters had all of their foster children taken off them.

I hope if she does sue she’ll get a bucket-load of money but most of all the acknowledgment that the wrong decisions were made.

bravo! Some one has said it like it is.

 

[Underarrest_]

Me too.

Let’s pretend she’s getting ready to sue FACS, Michelle White, the fosters and the NSW Gov, then episode 2 of the Witness podcasts will give her lawyers some great copy. Especially that bit about the worker who took William from the bio family and gave him to the hospital and then the fosters to care for him, saying himself that they knew that the Tyrrell family were “sh**” and “ordinary.” That worker sounded more unprofessional than what I had even expected a worker to behave or speak like.

Like that’s any reason to take the children.

Imagine if all of the sh* and ordinary parents just got their kids taken from them, never to be returned. Sh* and ordinary should not be the threshold for removal.

That person was so abhorrent to listen to and but that interview gave a great insight into what I view as the sheer senselessness of L and William’s placement into out of home care. IMO

It’s a whole new stolen generation, and white or black, it still needs to be acknowledged.

Imagine what William’s sister has been through, losing her brother and having to stay with the carers who lost him.

If L never went into care, her life may not have ended up being such a nightmare. She will never get her childhood back.

What price would you put on 11 years of your life, gone? She was 11 or 12 I think when the fosters had all of their foster children taken off them.

I hope if she does sue she’ll get a bucket-load of money but most of all the acknowledgment that the wrong decisions were made.

Totally unprofessional and when William was taken to the hospital he was assessed as medically heathy.

 

[31550]

Totally unprofessional and when William was taken to the hospital he was assessed as medically heathy.

Yes it seems the removal of the children from their biological family was a vindictive knee-jerk reaction by police and FACS. It was motivated by the perceived need to punish the biological parents for their behaviour, rather than protect the children. There is very little evidence that the children were in real danger by being left with their real parents. Nothing compared to the harm which they came to with the foster carers, anyway. There are many, many parents with drug or alcohol problems, or who go through occasions of domestic violence but still manage to raise their children in an environment which is (on balance) healthy and happy. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it's not as though William and his sister regularly went without meals, or a place to sleep, or clothing. There is no evidence they were physically or mentally abused by their real parents, or even neglected. The disadvantages associated with tearing apart families: loss of identity, separation anxiety and trauma, social disconnect, mental health, impaired social skills and abilities, etc. often far outweigh the perceived advantages. How did it turn out for William and his sister? Not too good IMO.
IMO Karlie and Brendan were singled out and used by the system as examples because they were not in a position to defend themselves. Meanwhile I'd venture to suggest there are hundreds if not thousands of couples who are 'worse' parents, where neither FACS nor police would even bother to intervene.

 

[Underarrest_]

Yes it seems the removal of the children from their biological family was a vindictive knee-jerk reaction by police and FACS. It was motivated by the perceived need to punish the biological parents for their behaviour, rather than protect the children. There is very little evidence that the children were in real danger by being left with their real parents. Nothing compared to the harm which they came to with the foster carers, anyway. There are many, many parents with drug or alcohol problems, or who go through occasions of domestic violence but still manage to raise their children in an environment which is (on balance) healthy and happy. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it's not as though William and his sister regularly went without meals, or a place to sleep, or clothing. There is no evidence they were physically or mentally abused by their real parents, or even neglected. The disadvantages associated with tearing apart families: loss of identity, separation anxiety and trauma, social disconnect, mental health, impaired social skills and abilities, etc. often far outweigh the perceived advantages. How did it turn out for William and his sister? Not too good IMO.
IMO Karlie and Brendan were singled out and used by the system as examples because they were not in a position to defend themselves. Meanwhile I'd venture to suggest there are hundreds if not thousands of couples who are 'worse' parents, where neither FACS nor police would even bother to intervene.

Agree, and if they were concerned about any substance abuse or DV within the relationship, there are other options than removing the children, especially long term.
The unfortunate thing is that most parents are in a vulnerable position and unable to defend themselves and this doesn’t improve because to have a child removed decreases self esteem, confidence to be parent.
It was a strength in itself that K and B had regular contact with William after his removal and didn’t give in to FMs behaviour/demands.

 

[31550]

Agree, and if they were concerned about any substance abuse or DV within the relationship, there are other options than removing the children, especially long term.
The unfortunate thing is that most parents are in a vulnerable position and unable to defend themselves and this doesn’t improve because to have a child removed decreases self esteem, confidence to be parent.
It was a strength in itself that K and B had regular contact with William after his removal and didn’t give in to FMs behaviour/demands.

It's none of our business but I wonder if L still has access visits with her real parents? And if not, why not?

 

[Wallace52]

It's none of our business but I wonder if L still has access visits with her real parents? And if not, why not?

You’re right. It’s none of our business.

 

[Underarrest_]

It's none of our business but I wonder if L still has access visits with her real parents? And if not, why not?

Not sure but the grief of knowing William was missing, never to be found is very sad, and less contact with L if this happened, even sadder,
and if FM is responsible his parents have been left to wonder all these years what William went through all the time his carer knowing. Imagine what would run through his parents brain, day in day out. I can’t think of anything worse than not knowing.

 

[31550]

Not sure but the grief of knowing William was missing, never to be found is very sad, and less contact with L if this happened, even sadder,
and if FM is responsible his parents have been left to wonder all these years what William went through all the time his carer knowing. Imagine what would run through his parents brain, day in day out. I can’t think of anything worse than not knowing.

That is true, and yet there are some who point the finger at the bio family and suggest that "if they weren't junkies / no-hopers / sh*t parents then none of this would have happened". Yet the truth is that when William was handed over he was in good health. Now he is not. He was given to people who were supposed to keep him safe and healthy. They failed. Regardless of anything else that may have happened to William, that, in and of itself is a crime in my opinion.

 

[js47]

Yes it seems the removal of the children from their biological family was a vindictive knee-jerk reaction by police and FACS. It was motivated by the perceived need to punish the biological parents for their behaviour, rather than protect the children. There is very little evidence that the children were in real danger by being left with their real parents. Nothing compared to the harm which they came to with the foster carers, anyway. There are many, many parents with drug or alcohol problems, or who go through occasions of domestic violence but still manage to raise their children in an environment which is (on balance) healthy and happy. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it's not as though William and his sister regularly went without meals, or a place to sleep, or clothing. There is no evidence they were physically or mentally abused by their real parents, or even neglected. The disadvantages associated with tearing apart families: loss of identity, separation anxiety and trauma, social disconnect, mental health, impaired social skills and abilities, etc. often far outweigh the perceived advantages. How did it turn out for William and his sister? Not too good IMO.
IMO Karlie and Brendan were singled out and used by the system as examples because they were not in a position to defend themselves. Meanwhile I'd venture to suggest there are hundreds if not thousands of couples who are 'worse' parents, where neither FACS nor police would even bother to intervene.

K and B were not as MONETARILY WEALTHY as the fosters and there is the reason for the foster situation.
It would be interesting to know if they ever made financial contributions to any one.
No one take me on as an RN I would cry my heart out after looking after some children in the hospital setting. Before I retired I did 4 years working in detox nursing for…..you got it the Salvation Army. But! I saw with the right help people were able to move forward as productive parents. Funny that, the SA didn’t think it was possible in K and B.
FM just once in your life ANSWER the questions you have ignored in a simple honest way. Oh! and in a truthful timeline.
What time you went for a drive (as stated by you)
Where you went (really)
Who went with you(?)
What was the description of the driver (you were very detailed about the man in the green car)
What was the colour of the truck and logos (you remembered in detail the two parked forgotten cars)
Who looked after L (you were very concerned she might be a target
Did FGM know you took the car ( surely she would have heard you backing out of the carport)
Did your tea get cold.
Did you meet FF while you were out?

 

[shorsky]

Access visits are often very stressful situations for all parties concerned. There are a range of family dynamics going on. Even the logistics of physically getting bio families together, suitable transport, a venue, supervision by FACS (if required), is stressful. Then there is one or two hours of interaction where parents and children might try to bridge the gap of several weeks of physical separation. For little children, their bio parents are often their 'world', and often vice versa.
Children go into care for a reason. Someone (a court) has decided that separation from bio parents is necessary, but the court has also ordered access visits, and court orders must be complied with.
It doesn't surprise me at all that William's behaviour would change around the time of access visits. They would be very confusing situations, with a mixed range of emotions felt by all concerned.
The thing I have a problem with is pointing the finger of blame at William - this situation was not of his making. He's just a 3YO child forced into a situation out of his control. The solution is not to cut off the access visits - the solution is to provide support to William and his biological family so they can have a normal, peaceful interaction as parent and child. That is the role of foster parents and FACS.

I agree with everything you’ve said, particularly when children are at an age of awareness. .. however there are also variables ..

However my consideration was in relation to a ‘baby’ going to the foster situation, and me not being aware of when William first saw his bio parents after he was removed from their care.
eg. Was there a ‘settle in’ period
Were the bio parents punished for absconding with him
Were they already having access visits with L, and so William joined in

And of course there should be no blame put on William - nor on any other child finding themselves in confusing situations that are way out of their depth to fathom and to cope with. The role of adults is help children develop the skills needed to navigate challenging situations.

 

[Longmembrey]

I lived in Laurieton for ten years No you could not really do a day trip.
If some one is trying to prove the photo was taken at a different time using flowers a stronger option would be using dental records of William roaring his teeth are really visible.
Look William was being a little imp. Aggravating fighting with sister dominating conversations throwing dice. FM was into discipline. FGM was fed up. I cannot imagine William was not disciplined. What was that discipline????? Was it done by FF or FM I think FM. She went for a drive DID she go with William to have a serious chat out of FGM hearing? Is that why she was evasive about the
time frame. Could he have jumped out of a moving car?
Also a fall of a balcony head injury could be immediately fatal the head can be dislodged from the spine as in so many car accidents.

imp?

 

[shorsky]

OMG. That's your basis. I am so glad we have you on board.

Forensic anthropathologists do these measures all the time. There are scientific articles that detail estimating age from photographs and they are quite reliable. In the case of William Tyrell he acts as his own control. In this case I said to check other ratios including vertex to trajion/ arm lengths. I mention this as it is not dependent on posture. Did you do that or do you dismiss it without thought.

It your opinion he looks older, but I am afraid you can't challenge the science that underpins forensic biometric analysis. It’s peer reviewed and established in legal medicine.

Hi TCP
It’s obvious that you’ve put a lot into your investigations, and I sense your passion and strong belief in the validity of what you see, so since I’m no expert on any of the topics / scenarios that you’ve postulated, I’m certainly not about to debunk them.

I think it would be of more value to take all your ‘evidence’ into your nearest Police Station and ask to see the Detective in -charge so you can present this to more appropriate channels. … i think it’s perhaps wasted in this environment since we don’t have any avenues to prove / disprove / act upon for the good of William.

 

[Lebbo73]

One of the foster care workers is convinced that the FM didn’t do anything wrong. That’s enough to for me.