Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[js47]

Just checking, did FGM say she didn’t see FF at all before he left? I thought she asked him to pick up the paper for her.

I think he spoke to FGM the night before about what time Chemist opened. So probably asked for paper. It is to the stage you toss a coin to see what is the truth.

 

[js47]

It's background, but not recent. That is all based on Jubelin's 2016 interview with FM which lasted 2.5 hours (including breaks), and covered not only the time between the photos and the 000 call, but also detailed background of the fosters and their relationship, and how William and his sister came into their care.

So, Jubelin probably spent under an hour on the actual critical timeline, and doesn't seem to have questioned FM at all about the drive. It's the drive which doesn't fit the timeline at all. Jubelin went over several possible scenarios, including balcony fall, driveway accident, etc. But neither of these would fit with the FM drive in her mother's car.

The sequence of events by ARB above seems about right to me, and the best explanation of why GO phone call went unanswered is that everyone was out on the driveway for bike riding or whatever around 9am. FF had to have been gone for the bike riding, or there wouldn't have been room in the driveway. Makes sense that he unloaded the bikes before leaving, if he hadn't already done so the night before. But they wouldn't have been able to ride bikes if his car was still there. Maybe FGM was doing dishes and didn't watch the bike riding. Maybe after William 'deliberately crashed his bike into the garden' and finished playing 'Mummy Monster', and refusing to climb the 'great climbing tree', then they all went inside via the back verandah to get set up for drawing and card making. This explains the position of William's shoes - facing the house. He would have taken them off before going in, and they would have been placed on the verandah facing the door. This is how people place shoes when they are taken off before entering a house. When he went outside to do the drawing he was then barefoot, as per the photos.
Maybe they went outside again onto the verandah around 9:15 or 9:20am? This would be enough time for William to get bored with drawing, roll the dice incorrectly and start roaring like a tiger by 9:37.
Then something happens, but what?
There is nothing certain in the timeline until around 10:30am, but by then FM has taken her drive (I think) and FF has returned. It's about 40 minutes unexplained. It's also consistent with FGM saying she was out on the verandah for "about an hour" (from 9:20 to 10:20, at which time she says she went looking for FM). FGM is covering whatever happened by saying she was out there the whole time, but there's not enough activity to fill an hour IMO. Maybe she knew FM was gone for a while in her car, and made tea in anticipation of her return?

One question which has not been satisfactorily answered (IMO) is when and how William put his shoes on again? If he 'suddenly' jumped off the deck, then he didn't put them on himself. Yet, the shoes disappeared with William somehow.

Getting close 31550
Just a thought we all assume FF took the car what IF FGM took the car out?
I believe the drive was longer (40 mins available) I did a drive to get the engine bonnet warm at 25 degrees it took in same size car 5-6 Ks. at 11am
If the day was earlier and some one mentioned 15 degrees then it would have to be a longer drive.
The tea took 25 to cool same temperatures so if the POL arrived after 11 then the tea had to have been made after 10.45 after FF arrived homes. They must have made tea twice. so William is missing and they are making tea?

 

[Underarrest_]

I think he spoke to FGM the night before about what time Chemist opened. So probably asked for paper. It is to the stage you toss a coin to see what is the truth.

Thank you.
Toss a coin...What would I say, snakes for snakes in the grass or heads for heads up there’s an abductor on the loose

 

[js47]

Does anyone recall where FM thought she heard a scream in the bush and where police found something on the fence line?

 

[31550]

I think he spoke to FGM the night before about what time Chemist opened. So probably asked for paper. It is to the stage you toss a coin to see what is the truth.

The weird thing is that paper came out every Wednesday. FGM according to her statement went into Kendall on the Thursday to visit the community centre etc. as per usual routine. Why didn't she pick the paper up herself?

 

[js47]

I'm not an expert on cadaverine but ...

• cadaver dogs were not used in the early part of the investigation AFAIK - only search/rescue dogs
• unclear if scent was detected in FGM car (or if it was even searched on the day). It was not forensically examined for several days, and clearly that search was not thorough, or they would not have forensically searched it AGAIN six or seven years later as they did!
• My understanding is cadaverine can take at least 10 minutes, but even up to an hour to become detectable after death. So if the initial movement of William was in FGM car only a short distance then quite possible no cadaverine left in the vehicle.
• Not clear from WH statement whether FF left in his vehicle or on foot.
• Quite possible if William was left a few km from the FGM property, he could have then been moved further by hand or another vehicle. FF might have had time to do this before 6am on the following morning.
• Unclear if FF vehicle was inspected for cadaverine, ever. It also was not forensically examined for several days after William disappeared. In any case, it would not be unusual to find William's scent or DNA in FF car as he had travelled in it to Kendall.

FM used the 'foster child' excuse for silencing her mother from speaking publicly about the case ... you would think in a 'normal' relationship she would have been able to communicate this directly to her mother herself, rather than involve the police. It indicates a fractured relationship or at least some tension between the two.

PS. I don't find it realistic that FF could or would move William's body using one of the kids pushbikes (they were tiny with trainer wheels). Not sure he had his trail bike at the property - don't think so.

Ok! Thanks for your thoughts

 

[js47]

Some interesting reading.

“One example is the police force calling on the coroner overseeing the inquest, Harriet Grahame, to stand down from all cases involving police officers over an alleged “perception of bias”.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/alarming-results-as-cops-william-tyrrell-theory-tested/news-story/10eea04ebb4e42406c4ca6561ae81ee8?amp

Very interesting. As if this case is not complicated enough.
People with dementia can be very violent hitting you with walking sticks etc. it is very difficult to be allowed them to be restrained. Sadly because humane restraints cannot be used handcuffs are. Instead of nurses police with guns etc that look intimating take care of the situation.
People doing their job should not have a threat of a walking stick being cracked over their head. Same Coroner Grahame would be intelligent enough to make an informative view on this. There is court security for similar reasons. Sad isn’t it?

 

[Underarrest_]

Very interesting. As if this case is not complicated enough.
People with dementia can be very violent hitting you with walking sticks etc. it is very difficult to be allowed them to be restrained. Sadly because humane restraints cannot be used handcuffs are. Instead of nurses police with guns etc that look intimating take care of the situation.
People doing their job should not have a threat of a walking stick being cracked over their head. Same Coroner Grahame would be intelligent enough to make an informative view on this. There is court security for similar reasons. Sad isn’t it?

Yes that’s sad.
I wasn’t referring to that part as interesting though rather the police delay in providing evidence. Sorry, probably confusing from my quote as from reading point.

 

[31550]

Very interesting. As if this case is not complicated enough.
People with dementia can be very violent hitting you with walking sticks etc. it is very difficult to be allowed them to be restrained. Sadly because humane restraints cannot be used handcuffs are. Instead of nurses police with guns etc that look intimating take care of the situation.
People doing their job should not have a threat of a walking stick being cracked over their head. Same Coroner Grahame would be intelligent enough to make an informative view on this. There is court security for similar reasons. Sad isn’t it?

Wow, just wow.
Firstly Dan Box takes potshots at NSWPOL about this case. Now he has a go at the Coroner herself!
Smacks of desperation.
Where is William, Dan? Let's sort that particular issue out first.

 

[Wallace52]

Wow, just wow.
Firstly Dan Box takes potshots at NSWPOL about this case. Now he has a go at the Coroner herself!
Smacks of desperation.
Where is William, Dan? Let's sort that particular issue out first.

IMO: He’s ripping Laidlaw to shreds in Episode 4.

What happened last time the FM ripped Laidlaw to shreds on a podcast? That was in Lia Harris’ podcast and that didn’t turn out well for the FM.

Now a slick News exec with a nice accent is speaking as her proxy, and he’s ripping Laidlaw apart from a different angle; and once again, no good will come of this.

IMHO, it is gob-smacking that they would dare drag the Coroner into this and throw mud her way, a week before the start of her inquest.

Evidently they are trying to what - collapse the inquest? Disrupt it? Like what are they trying to achieve?

If answers are forthcoming and justice is somehow forthcoming, it’s coming down the line regardless of a little bespoke podcast.

I love how we have been so respectful in this forum. Trying to abide by suppression orders, even for the bio family, trying to not wreck the inquest or screw up the police investigation and then you’ve got the Witness podcast that just doesn’t seem to follow any of the rules, and doesn’t seem concerned that they will jeopardise the inquest of the FM’s right to a fair trial if she was to be charged.

Wouldn’t it be nice to live in a world where there were just no consequences?

And just whilst I am at it: I’m so glad Jubelin was taken off this case. He’s been a snake waiting in the grass for years.

 

[Wallace52]

Thank you.
Toss a coin...What would I say, snakes for snakes in the grass or heads for heads up there’s an abductor on the loose

In Sydney or in Kendall? There is definitely someone who should be in custody and they’re in the community. The question is, who??

 

[js47]

In Sydney or in Kendall? There is definitely someone who should be in custody and they’re in the community. The question is, who??

But what mask does that someone wear?

 

[js47]

NOT ONE PEEP OF SOMEONE APPLYING FOR A MILLION DOLLARS

 

[Wallace52]

NOT ONE PEEP OF SOMEONE APPLYING FOR A MILLION DOLLARS

Absolutely not. Do you know of anyone that perhaps doesn’t need a million dollars?

I would say it’s a crime where only one person knows what they did, and maybe one other person has a bit of an inkling but is not saying anything.

 

[Wallace52]

police delay in providing evidence.

It’s so funny that some people (including I think the producer(s) of the Witness podcast) seem to think that the general public and the foster parents are entitled to know what evidence the police have in this case, before she is charged.

Like just because you want to know does not mean you have a right to know. Usually the evidence is within the brief and the brief won’t be available to the foster mother’s legal team until she is charged.

Thats how it works.

 

[Underarrest_]

It’s so funny that some people (including I think the producer(s) of the Witness podcast) seem to think that the general public and the foster parents are entitled to know what evidence the police have in this case, before she is charged.

Like just because you want to know does not mean you have a right to know. Usually the evidence is within the brief and the brief won’t be available to the foster mother’s legal team until she is charged.

Thats how it works.

Its not funny at all.

The Coroner needs to know what evidence there is and has been waiting 10 months for a witness statement.


William’s loved ones need answers.

 

[Wallace52]

Its not funny at all.

The Coroner needs to know what evidence there is and has been waiting 10 months for a witness statement.


William’s loved ones need answers.

Don’t you think that the Coroner will be provided with everything she needs? Why are you jumping the gun? The inquest is next week.

William’s family are patiently waiting, maintaining a dignified silence - as we all are.

It’s just News Corp braying for answers a week before the inquest. It’s fatiguing. Like it’s just around the corner. Let’s just be adults and wait.

 

[Underarrest_]

Don’t you think that the Coroner will be provided with everything she needs? Why are you jumping the gun? The inquest is next week.

William’s family are patiently waiting, maintaining a dignified silence - as we all are.

It’s just News Corp braying for answers a week before the inquest. It’s fatiguing. Like it’s just around the corner. Let’s just be adults and wait.

What I think is my statement was misinterpreted. No one said the public need to know what evidence there is.

 

[Wallace52]

What I think is my statement was misinterpreted. No one said the public need to know what evidence there is.

Well who needs to know right now? As I said, we are a week out from inquest. It’s just around the corner.

 

[Underarrest_]

Well who needs to know right now? As I said, we are a week out from inquest. It’s just around the corner.

No one said anyone needs to know right now. Please don’t misinterpret my comment.

 

[BFew]

IMHO, it is gob-smacking that they would dare drag the Coroner into this and throw mud her way, a week before the start of her inquest.

Evidently they are trying to what - collapse the inquest? Disrupt it? Like what are they trying to achieve?

Maybe the Coroner can look at getting an AVO on Dan Box, preventing him from coming within 100m of wherever inquests are held.

Any Sydneysiders thinking of going to this round of the inquest?

Do we have exact dates yet?

Edit:
'During a directions hearing at the NSW Coroner’s Court at Lidcombe on Tuesday, Ms Grahame confirmed the dates for the final block of hearings – in the weeks starting November 4 and December 16.'

 

[Wallace52]

Maybe the Coroner can look at getting an AVO on Dan Box, preventing him from coming within 100m of wherever inquests are held.

Any Sydneysiders thinking of going to this round of the inquest?

Do we have exact dates yet?

I think we need to pin the inquest dates Kurve BFew to the top of the page.

The Tyrrell inquest will be held at the Forensic Medicine and Coroners Court Complex at 1A Main Ave Lidcombe, NSW.

To your other points; I don’t think you can get an AVO based on muck-racking and sh*t stirring, but we shall see. And I don’t believe Box or the fosters will be there at the inquest next week. I think shiny-head will probably be there, though.

I might go, and maybe you’ll recognise me as the dapper guy with black rimmed glasses and a moustache

I hope some people from the public will go. It’s an interesting case.

IMO

Addendum, there are some fascinating inquests being held this week: Attached

 

[LRitz]

One possibility is that FM was standing in the driveway at the command post when Snr Cst Hudson arrived.

I think it would be strange if police let FF wander off on his own - he could get lost or injured and then they'd be searching for him as well. Maybe FM meant "alone" as in not accompanied by her?

But also: from "Police eye on William Tyrrell’s foster carers", The Australian, 07 July 2020, paywalled and I can't check this:

"Dozens of sensitive documents related to the case were released by the NSW Coroner on Tuesday [07 Jul 2020] in a last-ditch effort to encourage witnesses to come forward.

The documents show senior police returning in February this year [2020] to a fire trail where William’s foster father was seen by police on September 12, 2014, the day the boy vanished.

One document notes the foster father had defied a police direction to stay at the property at 48 Benaroon Drive in Kendall on the NSW mid-north coast, where William was last seen alive.

“Sometime after the disappearance of William Tyrrell, the MFC (male foster carer) was seen by Senior Constable (Christopher) Rowley in the fire trail at the end of Benaroon Drive, Kendall,” the document says. “The MFC had ignored the advice from police to remain at 48 Benaroon Drive.

“On Monday 03/02/2020 Senior Constable Rowley met with Detective (Mark) Dukes and took him to this location. Senior Constable Rowley indicated the accuracy was within about 50 metres of the original sighting.”

The foster father has testified that he searched frantically for the boy up and down local fire trails. He is not considered a suspect."

...MFC (male foster carer) was seen by Senior Constable (Christopher) Rowley in the fire trail at the end of Benaroon Drive, Kendall,”

Maybe the FF was interfering with evidence. Making sure there were no recent tyre tracks from a 4 wheel drive. Sorry, just a thought.