Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[stormbird]

Interesting. It does remind us that the area was both a search area for a lost child and also a potential crime scene. The police had a balancing act. But as the fosters must have been on the list of suspects from the start, maybe FF should have been excluded from the search. Not to judge, hindsight makes us all experts.

Maybe the police didn't have a legal way to stop FF from searching? But also I wonder whether it could have been useful for the police to have the foster parents separated every day - to see what each of them did when they thought they were alone, for example, and what they said when together again. That's if the fosters were under surveillance, and I'm just supposing they would have been.

 

[js47]

It’s classic blame-shifting. Oh the police blackened my name. Her behaviour is black, in that it’s criminal, it’s abhorrent. If you had heard those tapes in court and the way she treated that child, you would be shocked and incredibly sad for that child. I’ve had friends who had to take sick leave from their jobs as they couldn’t come back to court the next day and hear more of it. It impacted everyone who heard the recordings that week at Parramatta, but it particularly impacted the journalists and court reporters who were parents.

The FM is probably bummed that she’s lost her job. As far as I know, she can’t do that job with that company with a criminal record like the one she has.

And I think she knew that. She knew once she was convicted she would be let go. It was only a matter of time.

That’s on her. She shouldn’t have broken the law. No one made her assault or intimidate that child who is not William. She did it as an adult, of her own free will.

How is that the fault of the police and strike force who obtained the evidence against her in the stalk/intimidate, assault and real estate fraud cases legally?

EXACTLY

 

[js47]

Why would Michelle White say in Kendall for 9 days? Was /is she a friend of FPs? Seems very OTT to me. Was she there to ensure stories aligned with FACS perspective to cover decisions made etc. Seems she may have been a nuisance to police investigations at the time.

The beaches are very nice in the area too

 

[shorsky]

Except they found the woman driving erratically with her son in a Spiderman costume and they were attending a kids party in Ron’s street or nearby.

I thought they established that it wasn’t her that Ron had seen

 

[Earls Smother]

I thought the description was always a bit odd. All IMO, but a 3year old unrestrained in a moving car was somehow able to be seen clearly through the passenger window. It would be hard to stand, or is he kneeling on the seat? All very difficult if the car is at speed. If he was sitting he would be to short to see. IMO

I think Ron Chapman thought it was a bit odd too. That is generally why people notice things - they stand out as not being normal.

From his account, William had both hands on the rear passenger window. Probably kneeling on the seat but impossible to know exactly. The momentum of the right hand turn would have meant William was pushed very close to the window IMO. Ron muttered under his breath "stupid bitch" because of the speed and the boy seemingly without a seatbelt.

Ron admitted that the second car had tinted windows, making it harder to see the interior. He also said he didn't recognise either car as being local and has never seen them again since.

 

[31550]

Well it seems she didn’t alert her neighbours to the disappearance until after the FF returned home which was about 50 minutes after 9:37am.

That is correct, and THAT is the most important piece of the timeline which needs to be established.
What exactly happened between the 9:37 photo and FF return at 10:35?
The most important piece of evidence is the FM statement made to Vanessa Partridge on 14 Sep. Only two days after the event, and enough time for everyone to be over the initial panic and confusion about time.
Here is what she swore to:


Just three consecutive paragraphs describe 90 MINUTES of activity.
William jumped off the deck, she went looking for him in the garden, got the FF text, met him in the carport, went down to see AMS, looked in the street, and then dialled 000.

No mention of a drive in the FGM car. No strange cars in the street. No truck driver. No screams in the bush. Nothing suspicious at all. He's there one minute and gone the next.

EXCEPT THAT there is about 50 minutes of unexplained activity if the photo was taken at 9:37 and William jumped off the verandah soon after, and the text from FF was at 10:30.

IMO the coroner must establish what happened during those 50 minutes, and why there is such a large time gap in FM's original police statement.

 

[truecrimepath]

No, the SunCalc photo shows that it is a lower angle and would definitely light up the brick wall of the bathroom and reflect onto the deck. Look again at my previous posts.

I know what you're saying and have read your posts. The problem is that you are ignoring the trees, the shadows you can clearly see at 9.30 am in this photo. For ARB to say that the sun is over the trees when you can actually see the shadows of the trees at 9.30 clearly shows that his opinion is trumped by facts (not opinion). His opinion is a steaming 'load of angry bull...t'. The spot in which Grandma is reading the paper in direct sunlight (in the photos) is in shadows. It was sunny in Kendall like this photo at 7.30am. that morning. Neither 7.30 or 9.30 works in direct sunlight. What you should also notice is the back wall you refer to is also in shadow at 9.30 which again is at odds with the iconic photos. This photo by Geraghty (SMH) is extremely important in proving that the photos were not taken that day. I will show you again.



I previously noted the coights and fail to see any relevance except they were not present in the iconic photo either.

 

[31550]

I know what you're saying and have read your posts. The problem is that you are ignoring the trees, the shadows you can clearly see at 9.30 am in this photo. For ARB to say that the sun is over the trees when you can actually see the shadows of the trees at 9.30 clearly shows that his opinion is trumped by facts (not opinion). His opinion is a steaming 'load of angry bull...t'. The spot in which Grandma is reading the paper in direct sunlight (in the photos) is in shadows. It was sunny in Kendall like this photo at 7.30am. that morning. Neither 7.30 or 9.30 works in direct sunlight. What you should also notice is the back wall you refer to is also in shadow at 9.30 which again is at odds with the iconic photos. This photo by Geraghty (SMH) is extremely important in proving that the photos were not taken that day. I will show you again.

View attachment 2154096

I previously noted the coights and fail to see any relevance except they were not present in the iconic photo either.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the Kate Geraghty photo you are using above was taken some time in 2015 to support an article written about the FGM property going on the market. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...isappeared-on-the-market-20151019-gkc9xt.html

Do you have any evidence that it was taken in 2014, and how do we know the exact date and time of day it was taken?

 

[truecrimepath]

EXACTLY

Didn't Dan say it was just poor parenting. It looks like the FM loses control fairly easily.

 

[truecrimepath]

I am trying to resolve the journey the night before.

One story provided by the FM claims that they arrived at McDonalds at 6.50pm (Overington). They left McDonalds at 6.40pm on cctv (nsw police). Only confirmed fact.
They then get to Kendall at 9pm. (Overington)
Another story says they got to Kendall at 9.30 pm. (Leah Harris)

It takes two hours to get to Benaroon drive from McDonalds Heatherbrae. Fact.

When they actually got to Kendall is a critical piece of information. The discrepancy in the times is a red flag. If they got to Kendall at 9.30pm then exactly what happened on the journey.

I hope the police used cell phone data to determine when they actually got there. The factual answer to this question could literally move the time and the location of what happened to William Tyrrell.

 

[LRitz]

That is correct, and THAT is the most important piece of the timeline which needs to be established.
What exactly happened between the 9:37 photo and FF return at 10:35?
The most important piece of evidence is the FM statement made to Vanessa Partridge on 14 Sep. Only two days after the event, and enough time for everyone to be over the initial panic and confusion about time.
Here is what she swore to:
View attachment 2154086

Just three consecutive paragraphs describe 90 MINUTES of activity.
William jumped off the deck, she went looking for him in the garden, got the FF text, met him in the carport, went down to see AMS, looked in the street, and then dialled 000.

No mention of a drive in the FGM car. No strange cars in the street. No truck driver. No screams in the bush. Nothing suspicious at all. He's there one minute and gone the next.

EXCEPT THAT there is about 50 minutes of unexplained activity if the photo was taken at 9:37 and William jumped off the verandah soon after, and the text from FF was at 10:30.

IMO the coroner must establish what happened during those 50 minutes, and why there is such a large time gap in FM's original police statement.

Agree. and this does not correspond to what the FGM said in her "which way would I have gone" walk through.

Ok JUST for argument purpose - looking at the abduction hoax angle and trying to think it through and for a moment lets remove the halo from the FF) why have 50 minutes? Say (somehow) the photo is taken earlier than 9:30 when FF is at the house. FF then leaves with William and drives into state Forest. Next door neighbours away (seems that was well known) and neighbours across the road have left for the regular morning exercise. So FF is not seen. He is seen at tennis club before 9:00. At 9:35 FF is on conference call and the roar photo is allegedly taken so rock solid alibi for FF. Then what time do you raise the alarm? 5 to 10 minutes after the photo would be a real coincidence. And it had to be a bit before FF returns because otherwise the sneaky person abducting William may have been seen by FF driving up Benaroon drive. So sometime between 10:00 and 10:15 would fit in. The trigger for the start of the search could have been the FF arriving back, and then say William was missing around 10 minutes before this, enough time for FM to have done her first check of the front yard the other side of the house and back into the house, before the now deleted text arrived. As I understand FM was not seen or heard doing her first check calling for William. Maybe she was still inside having that cup of tea.

Interesting to read FM statement again, something always pops out. FM says she "walks" to the road and back into the house - so sounds like she was just looking to see where he had gone and no panic at this point. Does this fit in with later versions in podcasts? Any ideas?

This all depends on the photo being taken at an earlier time.

 

[31550]

I am trying to resolve the journey the night before.

One story provided by the FM claims that they arrived at McDonalds at 6.50pm (Overington). They left McDonalds at 6.40pm on cctv (nsw police). Only confirmed fact.
They then get to Kendall at 9pm. (Overington)
Another story says they got to Kendall at 9.30 pm. (Leah Harris)

It takes two hours to get to Benaroon drive from McDonalds Heatherbrae. Fact.

When they actually got to Kendall is a critical piece of information. The discrepancy in the times is a red flag. If they got to Kendall at 9.30pm then exactly what happened on the journey.

I hope the police used cell phone data to determine when they actually got there. The factual answer to this question could literally move the time and the location of what happened to William Tyrrell.

Not really. Only Leah Harris says 9:30. She wasn't there. There are 3 adult witnesses and one child who all gave accounts of activity involving William on the morning of the 12th. Are you suggesting they are all part of a conspiracy? It really makes no difference what happened the night before unless there is direct evidence disproving the evidence of all 4 witnesses.

 

[LRitz]

I know what you're saying and have read your posts. The problem is that you are ignoring the trees, the shadows you can clearly see at 9.30 am in this photo. For ARB to say that the sun is over the trees when you can actually see the shadows of the trees at 9.30 clearly shows that his opinion is trumped by facts (not opinion). His opinion is a steaming 'load of angry bull...t'. The spot in which Grandma is reading the paper in direct sunlight (in the photos) is in shadows. It was sunny in Kendall like this photo at 7.30am. that morning. Neither 7.30 or 9.30 works in direct sunlight. What you should also notice is the back wall you refer to is also in shadow at 9.30 which again is at odds with the iconic photos. This photo by Geraghty (SMH) is extremely important in proving that the photos were not taken that day. I will show you again.

View attachment 2154096

I previously noted the coights and fail to see any relevance except they were not present in the iconic photo either.

Nice new shiny shovel in the carport!

 

[31550]

This all depends on the photo being taken at an earlier time.

But IMO it doesn't. There is plenty of time between 9:37 and 10:30 unaccounted for, during which William could have been driven far enough away from the property and hidden from searchers.

 

[LRitz]

But IMO it doesn't. There is plenty of time between 9:37 and 10:30 unaccounted for, during which William could have been driven far enough away from the property and hidden from searchers.

I agree. but I think you are giving time for scenario for the FM to take a drive after the phot taken at 9:30.

What I was trying to do was look at it from a planned hoax (I know many do not think this is a possibility) involving the FF. And IF the photo was taken earlier than 9:35

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The beaches are very nice in the area too

Yes. Remember as a teen I went away to a caravan park at North haven..What an amazing location..What an amazing beach

 

[Lady O]

Agree. and this does not correspond to what the FGM said in her "which way would I have gone" walk through.

Ok JUST for argument purpose - looking at the abduction hoax angle and trying to think it through and for a moment lets remove the halo from the FF) why have 50 minutes? Say (somehow) the photo is taken earlier than 9:30 when FF is at the house. FF then leaves with William and drives into state Forest. Next door neighbours away (seems that was well known) and neighbours across the road have left for the regular morning exercise. So FF is not seen. He is seen at tennis club before 9:00. At 9:35 FF is on conference call and the roar photo is allegedly taken so rock solid alibi for FF. Then what time do you raise the alarm? 5 to 10 minutes after the photo would be a real coincidence. And it had to be a bit before FF returns because otherwise the sneaky person abducting William may have been seen by FF driving up Benaroon drive. So sometime between 10:00 and 10:15 would fit in. The trigger for the start of the search could have been the FF arriving back, and then say William was missing around 10 minutes before this, enough time for FM to have done her first check of the front yard the other side of the house and back into the house, before the now deleted text arrived. As I understand FM was not seen or heard doing her first check calling for William. Maybe she was still inside having that cup of tea.

Interesting to read FM statement again, something always pops out. FM says she "walks" to the road and back into the house - so sounds like she was just looking to see where he had gone and no panic at this point. Does this fit in with later versions in podcasts? Any ideas?

This all depends on the photo being taken at an earlier time.

Don't new cars have an inbuilt GPS? Or his phone would have pinged at another phone tower? Surely the cops would have checked out his movements that morning.

 

[Lady O]

Yes. Remember as a teen I went away to a caravan park at North haven..What an amazing location..What an amazing beach

Yes, we were there too, only a month or so prior to WT going missing. That's why I got interested in the case originally, as we also visited Kendall and looked around the area.

 

[Lady O]

But IMO it doesn't. There is plenty of time between 9:37 and 10:30 unaccounted for, during which William could have been driven far enough away from the property and hidden from searchers.

Gosh, everyone was saying there wasn't enough time to do what was necessary. I give you a theory where there is two extra hours and you now believe there is plenty of time......

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I think you have to conclude that RC memory was a false one by virtue of confabulation I'd say (as indicated by TCP)..Confabulation can happen in early stage dementia though not other cognitive diseases like Alzheimer's. The fact that relatives had testified that RC didn't identify the sighting that day even though they were with him later is quite persuasive to that possibility. I no longer consider the testimony relevant to this case..Each to resolve their own opinion I guess..mine has changed

 

[truecrimepath]

Yes, we were there too, only a month or so prior to WT going missing. That's why I got interested in the case originally, as we also visited Kendall and looked around the area.

Where were you at 10 am on the 12th September, 2014? Do you drive erratically? There is as much evidence for you as anyone else not connected to the foster family. LOL

 

[Angry Red Bull]

But IMO it doesn't. There is plenty of time between 9:37 and 10:30 unaccounted for, during which William could have been driven far enough away from the property and hidden from searchers.

Gosh, everyone was saying there wasn't enough time to do what was necessary. I give you a theory where there is two extra hours and you now believe there is plenty of time......

I always look for human behaviour clues. The human behaviour clues here is that the FPs were definitely attuned to the need to cover timeline. If, as we now suggest that the search started after FF got home and only then included the neighbours it means that the story has been embellished by them to have happened earlier eg 10.20 not 10.40. That in turn suggests a need to cover that which is risky to them, detection.....the time at which searching started..That time is the boundary to the time available. Put simply I simply don't accept that FM/ FPs would make a police call within 15 minutes of starting search. Not when my searches revealed the average time is 2 hours. They truncated the total time to push logistics of an abduction as preferred..they then made it seem that the search start time was earlier to make it appear as having insufficient time. First words to AMS refer to him perhaps not hearing because of a head injury....another human behaviour clue. Who jumps to that random possibility as first option for a missing child? No one. it was both planting the seed in case his body was found and testing the water of what perhaps she (AMS) heard/ didn't hear.

As 31550 points out the critical factor is the time of the car trip..Truncating of the timeline by lies simply pushes voracity of an abduction not correctness of 9.37 v 7.39. but the hearing of children playing before and after 9 gives greater credence to 9.37 especially now we know they had another 20 min in the window. From 9.37 to 10.40..... an hour. An hour is possibly adequate time..I still think there are human behaviour clues around FF and his car. Enough for me to think a car hit not reported caused delayed death. Perhaps thats why she chose Cobb & co because the alibi would be a hit and run covered up by a stranger.. Perhaps the comment to AMS was leakage. He had a head knock when FF left in car and hit him ....was complaining of hearing issues. They hesitated to treat him and he died.

The traffic analysis suggests that as many as 4 people (low of 2) may have passed her car whilst hiding him. I therefore suspect that the news report that said a witness has seen her driving was perhaps correct. If so they KNOW the approximate time of the trip and forms part of the case against her..

 

[Lady O]

Where were you at 10 am on the 12th September, 2014? Do you drive erratically? There is as much evidence for you as anyone else not connected to the foster family. LOL

Yeah, we were 7hours drive away by then, but look, if we had took WT he would have been a very handy helper now. And still alive.

 

[31550]

Don't new cars have an inbuilt GPS? Or his phone would have pinged at another phone tower? Surely the cops would have checked out his movements that morning.

Very few in 2014 had GPS at all, and most of those with GPS did not permanently record historical location of the vehicle.
Phone pings are another matter - they could have got a fair idea of his movements by phone pings. It would need to ping multiple towers to pinpoint his location exactly however. There were only a few towers in the area, so they'd probably only be able to get a 'general' location (within 1km or so).

 

[31550]

Not when my searches revealed the average time is 2 hours.

I believe the time was truncated by FF's return home. The actual time is from around 9:40 to 10:57, so a little shorter than 'average'. But an average is just an average - some times will be shorter, some times will be longer. I think if FF had not returned home until much later, then the 000 call would probably have also been made later. Remember that FF's return home was BEFORE FM left the property to 'search for William'. She may have left the property before 10:30 but according to her own sworn statement on 14 Sep 2014, she did not. She got the 'home in 5' text while she was still looking for William in the FGM yard, and had not yet engaged with AMS.