Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I have seen many discussion regarding time of photo. I really don't know, and I have just let everyone else slog it out. My suggestion was for someone to go to the house around the 12th Sept on sunny and cloudy days and take a few snaps. I am not suggesting were the light source was from, or angle or height. But why not a small weak flash close enough to just impact Williams eyes. The light would not be strong enough to light up the whole area. Some of those camera flashes are a rectangle shape built into the camera. I can see the roof reflection in the windows, not sure of the significance. i can see shadows of the table legs and the pink drink bottle which all seem to correspond to me. I think it would be quite bright at that time of year from 7:30 onwards. Drink Bottle - SH for shadow and R for reflection. It is clearly a reflection on the shiny deck as you can also see the colours of the bottle. The main light is brighter on Williams left side of his face (i.e the right side of the photo as you look at it). His right cheek is in a bit of a shadow.

Edit: sorry somehow my attached files are added to yours. Told you Im not IT.

I've pointed out previously that there is strong shadow from planter stand legs back toward the photographer which can only arise from the light on wall direction of that back wall just off verandah where we located what appears as a light high on wall. I suspect it was on and created those shadows and may also have been the unnatural light source detected with water bottle.

Yes I firmly believe that light was on and reflecting on wall and affecting shadows on verandah itself

There is another such light (matching to that one) that was just above the clothes line off the verandah in opposite direction. I have no idea whether it was on but given the other one possibly was you wonder whether that one also was on too

Of course these being on, if they were, contributes to the narrative of time being earlier than 9.37. Earlier more gloomy put outside lights on. Possible.

All this has been provided in my responses to TCP already which inexplicably have been ignored instead preferring to suddenly NOW find an unnatural light source or two on that back verandah where before he has insisted there were none. If he had confirmed what I had deduced it would make obvious the blatant deficiencies of his total light direction shadow analysis....which for purposes of vanity he simply can't do.

I don't care about vanity or who may be right or wrong. I care about solving the case and whosoever can contribute credible evidence to that end.

People who are disingenuous whilst simultaneously seeking to maintain an aura of superiority p*ss me off. Want to ridicule me directly TCP? and I'll call you an arrogant narcissistic fool to your face. Grow up

My mother has been admitted to hospital yesterday with 3 separate TIAs (which I presume you know about TCP being a neurosurgeon) so I'm in no mood to deal with DHs

 

[Wallace52]

I've pointed out previously that there is strong shadow from planter stand legs back toward the photographer which can only arise from the light on wall direction of that back wall just off verandah where we located what appears as a light high on wall. I suspect it was on and created those shadows and may also have been the unnatural light source detected with water bottle.

Yes I firmly believe that light was on and reflecting on wall and affecting shadows on verandah itself

There is another such light (matching to that one) that was just above the clothes line off the verandah in opposite direction. I have no idea whether it was on but given the other one possibly was you wonder whether that one also was on too

Of course these being on, if they were, contributes to the narrative of time being earlier than 9.37. Earlier more gloomy put outside lights on. Possible.

All this has been provided in my responses to TCP already which inexplicably have been ignored instead preferring to suddenly NOW find an unnatural light source or two on that back verandah where before he has insisted there were none. If he had confirmed what I had deduced it would make obvious the blatant deficiencies of his total light direction shadow analysis....which for purposes of vanity he simply can't do.

I don't care about vanity or who may be right or wrong. I care about solving the case and whosoever can contribute credible evidence to that end.

People who are disingenuous whilst simultaneously seeking to maintain an aura of superiority p*ss me off. Want to ridicule me directly TCP? and I'll call you an arrogant narcissistic fool to your face. Grow up

My mother has been admitted to hospital yesterday with 3 separate TIAs (which I presume you know about TCP being a neurosurgeon) so I'm in no mood to deal with DHs

I’m very sorry to hear about your mum.

And it takes years of researching this case to even start to understand it. You’ve been looking at this case for a very long time and your thoughts and views carry a lot of weight (to me) because you know just about as much as it’s possible to know (as a non law enforcement person).

 

[alwaysintrigued]

alwaysintrigued, if you were at the inquest when Snr Cst Rowley was on the stand, can you remember whether he said anything about the temperature of cars or tea cups (or anything else he might have checked that showed whether the cars or cups had been used recently)? Thank you.

Not that I re-call.

 

[31550]

alwaysintrigued, if you were at the inquest when Snr Cst Rowley was on the stand, can you remember whether he said anything about the temperature of cars or tea cups (or anything else he might have checked that showed whether the cars or cups had been used recently)? Thank you.

The other critical piece of forensic evidence available immediately at the crime scene (besides the warm tea cups and warm car bonnet) was the wound on FMs hand.
Did police ever examine it to confirm that it was a scratch from vegetation or a graze from a fall, and not a bite mark from a 3YO's mouth, or some sort of defensive wound? I think not.
This is just another piece of direct forensic immutable evidence discarded way too early IMO.
It would have given a true indication of whether there was perhaps some sort of physical altercation between FM and another person, possibly William.
A good cop would spot things like this which are out of the ordinary.
They would count the dishes in the sink, look at knives and forks, cups and glasses to determine how many ate breakfast. Examine the contents of the rubbish bins, laundry hampers. Look in the bathroom for wet / dirty towels, pill containers, etc. Immediately look at phones and computers. Take detailed photos of the verandah and surrounding areas.
How much of this was actually done, and what were the results?

 

[Kurve]

Why not just say, ‘his shoes are here, he obviously didn’t have them on’ ??

It would have been a different kind of investigation from the start if he'd had no shoes on. He wouldn't have even made it to the road on that block with no shoes on.

Also its my understanding that Const Rowley was there very quickly after the 000 call so I doubt there was time for her to drive off ( unseen) then

There's a discussion about this in Part 1, the FM said she went out in the car after the alarms were raised he was missing. Nobody appears to have seen her then but she probably did because she'd have assumed she was seen. That car drive was not to remove William it was for some other reason.

If William was removed by her, it was before the alarms went up.

Therefore, she drove out twice.

 

[31550]

It would have been a different kind of investigation from the start if he'd had no shoes on. He wouldn't have even made it to the road on that block with no shoes on.



There's a discussion about this in Part 1, the FM said she went out in the car after the alarms were raised he was missing. Nobody appears to have seen her then but she probably did because she'd have assumed she was seen. That car drive was not to remove William it was for some other reason.

If William was removed by her, it was before the alarms went up.

Therefore, she drove out twice.

There was no time between FF return (10:35) and the 000 call for a drive. FM went to see AMS, then down Benaroon and back on foot. (Supposedly also searched the house - 'we've looked everywhere') before dialling 000 at 10:54. FM statement says it was while she was searching the front yard for William she received the 'home in 5' text.

So the 'first' drive (if there was more than one) must have been before FFs return (confirmed by warm car bonnet). Which proves it was not 'looking for William'. Why else drive to the riding school before searching the garden and street?

If there was a second drive it was after police arrived. A risky thing to do if you are disposing of evidence. So I am skeptical about there being a second drive. It's the first drive which is very suspicious.

But agree the question about shoes is also suspicious. Why no answer? Or was the answer edited out of the 000 recording. It sounds like the question 'triggered' something with FM. If she had moved the body in the drive perhaps she did forget the shoes? They may have been hidden somewhere quickly before Rowley arrived. As indicated above I don't think an extensive search of the house was done on the day - they looked for William but not for other evidence. (FF might have easily disposed of shoes the next morning while he was out 'looking for William on his own'). Also the throwaway comment from FF in his walkthrough - "he may have lost a shoe" is supicious.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I’m very sorry to hear about your mum.

And it takes years of researching this case to even start to understand it. You’ve been looking at this case for a very long time and your thoughts and views carry a lot of weight (to me) because you know just about as much as it’s possible to know (as a non law enforcement person).

Thank you kindly. Heart on sleeve sad ATM. Hopefully ok

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Did a further test in my car. The heat gauge takes only about 8 min to rise to mid position which then takes 1 hour to dissipate parked off and in shade.

 

[Kurve]

There was no time between FF return (10:35) and the 000 call for a drive. FM went to see AMS, then down Benaroon and back on foot. (Supposedly also searched the house - 'we've looked everywhere') before dialling 000 at 10:54. FM statement says it was while she was searching the front yard for William she received the 'home in 5' text.

If she's responsible, IMO there was time. It only takes a couple of minutes to drive three or four blocks to turn around and come straight back. If she passed the cops or FF, she's simply out looking for William.

Edit: It's only 450 metres from 48 Benaroon Drive to the corner of Batar Creek Road.

 

[Lady O]

If she's responsible, IMO there was time. It only takes a couple of minutes to drive three or four blocks to turn around and come straight back. If she passed the cops or FF, she's simply out looking for William.

Edit: It's only 450 metres from 48 Benaroon Drive to the corner of Batar Creek Road.

It's about the same distance (500m) from our house to the front gate. We can walk (not quickly) there and back in 20mins.

 

[Kurve]

It's about the same distance (500m) from our house to the front gate. We can walk (not quickly) there and back in 20mins.

If she was driving at around 50kmph, it would take her only one and a bit minutes to drive a distance of 1km. That's a round trip to Batar Creek Road and back.

 

[31550]

The point is, if William is missing, you don't make the drive at all until you have searched the entire property inside and out and then engaged with the closest neighbours. You also tell people where you are going in case William is found and to ensure L is safe. You would also preferably take the car which William recognises, and which offers a better view of the roadside, and can go on dirt tracks if necessary.

 

[Wallace52]

It would have been a different kind of investigation from the start if he'd had no shoes on. He wouldn't have even made it to the road on that block with no shoes on.



There's a discussion about this in Part 1, the FM said she went out in the car after the alarms were raised he was missing. Nobody appears to have seen her then but she probably did because she'd have assumed she was seen. That car drive was not to remove William it was for some other reason.

If William was removed by her, it was before the alarms went up.

Therefore, she drove out twice.

She made two trips in the car (which also explains why the cops felt the bonnet was still warm) and two phone calls that morning, one to 000.

And here I am on the eve of the inquest wondering if the FF is extremely loyal or extremely stupid not to know what’s been going on.

The point is, if William is missing, you don't make the drive at all until you have searched the entire property inside and out and then engaged with the closest neighbours. You also tell people where you are going in case William is found and to ensure L is safe. You would also preferably take the car which William recognises, and which offers a better view of the roadside, and can go on dirt tracks if necessary.

That’s correct. You search the whole house first, then you go and grab your neighbours and do the neighbourhood search.

A little kid with asthma is not going to let it 1km away straight away.

It’s ridiculous.

 

[Lady O]

The point is, if William is missing, you don't make the drive at all until you have searched the entire property inside and out and then engaged with the closest neighbours. You also tell people where you are going in case William is found and to ensure L is safe. You would also preferably take the car which William recognises, and which offers a better view of the roadside, and can go on dirt tracks if necessary.

And you tell your husband so he can come back and help search!

 

[Wallace52]

If she's responsible, IMO there was time. It only takes a couple of minutes to drive three or four blocks to turn around and come straight back. If she passed the cops or FF, she's simply out looking for William.

Edit: It's only 450 metres from 48 Benaroon Drive to the corner of Batar Creek Road.

Dan Box has suggested there were no tools in the car to bury William. We don’t know that. She could have had a shovel.

But if he was taken by the FM I think he was placed, not buried, and then he was moved and moved again and on one of those moves he was buried.

What did the cops initially say circa 2021 Nov? We know different people did different things at different times for different reasons. Or something to that effect.

 

[31550]

But if he was taken by the FM I think he was placed, not buried, and then he was moved and moved again and on one of those moves he was buried.

What was it FM said?
"You can't just leave him lying in a ditch somewhere!"
Wonder where she got that idea.

 

[Lady O]

What was it FM said?
"You can't just leave him lying in a ditch somewhere!"
Wonder where she got that idea.

Can you remember when/where she said that?

 

[Wallace52]

What was it FM said?
"You can't just leave him lying in a ditch somewhere!"
Wonder where she got that idea.

It’s always been a bit of a slam dunk to me.

 

[Wallace52]

Can you remember when/where she said that?

It was in one of her original TV interviews or her first podcast with Lia Harris which News Corps has taken off the internet.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

It was in one of her original TV interviews or her first podcast with Lia Harris which News Corps has taken off the internet.

All of the Where's William Tyrrell? podcasts by Lia Harris & Natarsha Belling are still available

Where's William Tyrrell? - Network Ten

Where's William Tyrrell

10play.com.au

 

[LRitz]

....Hand injury why? Self defence v act of hiding

• inconsistencies in witness statements

- bike riding
- the existence/ purposely of trip
- start time of the search (SST)
- FF not heard until after SST
* Unverified abduction hoax indicia
- the mysterious cars
- U turn man
- truck man wave

Hand injury should have been checked. She had a narrative for herself on her first statement by allegedly falling in garden. And added she came in that she showed FGM, so a witness to the event! She covered her hand in the short walkthrough clip about the alleged drive. Why not have a bandage on the hand? Would this have brought more attention to it than just hiding it with a tissue? My Guess IMO, it was quite a scratch in an unusual spot on the palm of the hand. She was worried it would be spotted. Yes, Could William have scratched out in self defence?
(Just a thought. Did FF buy anything else at the chemist? Maybe some antiseptic cream of bandaids?)

My other comment (again previously dismissed) was why the FF did the same thing with his hand in his walk through? Maybe in sympathy with the FM? Or nothing to see here?

Bike riding: There was photo previously posted that showed where they allegedly rode their bikes. It was numbered I guess to show where they rode. But to me, the drive looks steep from the carport to the road and would have been difficult for a preschooler to stop without ending up on the road. I will look for the photo. IMO, I don't think William rode the bikes that morning.

The very first comment to independent party by FM after SST was words to AMS to effect....'he has either hit his head and cant hear me OR had been taken' They are critical. Why? Because they are not the very first thoughts that enter when a child goes missing.. the very first is where is he, have you seen him.... He's wandered off. No they are very much COG (consciousness of guilt ) behaviours.

Once you form the view that there are multiple COG behaviours (I have) of FM it quickly becomes a pivot on the time availability which in turn pivots on the time of photos including whether edited or not. There have been so many searches that you can conclude that IF he died and was hidden after 9.37 in short time available that you can be certain his body would be found OR there would have been cadaver stench detected in those close locations. If moved a second time cadaver scent in car.. The fact there hasn't strongly suggests the location is in a place much further away so they remained undetected.

"He had been taken". Agree that at first you would be thinking he has wandered or got lost and is not familiar with the FGM's garden or house. Or at least that is what you would be hoping for, and hope he would be found not far. So why early on to start the idea of the abduction.
What did the FGM say in her walkthrough? Words to the effect "..I do remember feeling that he has been taken because he's not the type to wander...Thats my first initial thought he's been taken. .." (From my transcript of recording.)
She repeats the "Taken" a couple of times.
So FM and FGM are setting the abduction scenario very early on. Is there an element of rehearsal? Easy explanation is they all discussed this and just used the word" taken", just coincidence. But it is the exact words. Why not say he was abducted, or something else.
FGM in her walkthrough repeats some things. The more she repeats the more suspicious it sounds, IMO. When she is asked about any phone calls that morning she says "no". I counted, she says "no" a total of 7 times!

Edit: I think FGM uses the word "taken" 5 times. FGM did not want the police interview to miss that idea.

 

[LRitz]

It would have been a different kind of investigation from the start if he'd had no shoes on. He wouldn't have even made it to the road on that block with no shoes on.



There's a discussion about this in Part 1, the FM said she went out in the car after the alarms were raised he was missing. Nobody appears to have seen her then but she probably did because she'd have assumed she was seen. That car drive was not to remove William it was for some other reason.

If William was removed by her, it was before the alarms went up.

Therefore, she drove out twice.

Maybe two drives but not both by FM.
What if: Not a fall from the balcony, but more sinister and planned.
FF leaves after 8:00 drives, for example, along Bater Creek rd further than Cobb and Co, or another quiet road like Lake Side drive. Prepares a place to bury William in a spot that FGM's small car could reach. Then FF continues onto Lake wood for his phone calls. FM takes photo of William, puts him in FGM's car, murders him, buries him in prepared spot and returns to home. When LT asks what have you been doing, FM tells her they have been playing and climbing trees. When LT asks where is William, FM says not to worry and that he is out the front of the house waiting for FF to come home.

I actually don't think this happened. I don't think he fell of balcony either.

 

[LRitz]

Bike riding: There was photo previously posted that showed where they allegedly rode their bikes. It was numbered I guess to show where they rode. But to me, the drive looks steep from the carport to the road and would have been difficult for a preschooler to stop without ending up on the road. I will look for the photo. IMO, I don't think William rode the bikes that morning.

Photo of steep driveway

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The FM went out in the car twice IMO.

Once before the 000 call and again after the 000 call. I don't know why she went out twice but if she was involved and given she avoided answering the operator on what shoes William was wearing, I would suspect it was because she realised the shoes were still on the back porch and she needed to get rid of them.

Hand injury should have been checked. She had a narrative for herself on her first statement by allegedly falling in garden. And added she came in that she showed FGM, so a witness to the event! She covered her hand in the short walkthrough clip about the alleged drive. Why not have a bandage on the hand? Would this have brought more attention to it than just hiding it with a tissue? My Guess IMO, it was quite a scratch in an unusual spot on the palm of the hand. She was worried it would be spotted. Yes, Could William have scratched out in self defence?
(Just a thought. Did FF buy anything else at the chemist? Maybe some antiseptic cream of bandaids?)

My other comment (again previously dismissed) was why the FF did the same thing with his hand in his walk through? Maybe in sympathy with the FM? Or nothing to see here?

Bike riding: There was photo previously posted that showed where they allegedly rode their bikes. It was numbered I guess to show where they rode. But to me, the drive looks steep from the carport to the road and would have been difficult for a preschooler to stop without ending up on the road. I will look for the photo. IMO, I don't think William rode the bikes that morning.


"He had been taken". Agree that at first you would be thinking he has wandered or got lost and is not familiar with the FGM's garden or house. Or at least that is what you would be hoping for, and hope he would be found not far. So why early on to start the idea of the abduction.
What did the FGM say in her walkthrough? Words to the effect "..I do remember feeling that he has been taken because he's not the type to wander...Thats my first initial thought he's been taken. .." (From my transcript of recording.)
She repeats the "Taken" a couple of times.
So FM and FGM are setting the abduction scenario very early on. Is there an element of rehearsal? Easy explanation is they all discussed this and just used the word" taken", just coincidence. But it is the exact words. Why not say he was abducted, or something else.
FGM in her walkthrough repeats some things. The more she repeats the more suspicious it sounds, IMO. When she is asked about any phone calls that morning she says "no". I counted, she says "no" a total of 7 times!

Edit: I think FGM uses the word "taken" 5 times. FGM did not want the police interview to miss that idea.

If you listen to FGM long walk through she clearly says at one point that FF had TOLD HER that.......X y z..ie she was definitely parroting the FF responses to a question that should have been HER ANSWER . Then at the end of the long walk through when the detective starts to ask questions about where she was in relation to FD after the main time was finished she says I can't remember and follow up question again I can't remember. Ie immediately after what had been rehearsed she can't remember when she has to respond herself . Major red flag IMO that it all was rehearsed.

She couldn't even remember whether she went left or right down the hill towards road because that sort of specificity WASN'T rehearsed so it tripped her up.

 

[Wallace52]

All of the Where's William Tyrrell? podcasts by Lia Harris & Natarsha Belling are still available

Where's William Tyrrell? - Network Ten

Where's William Tyrrell

10play.com.au

Not that one. The podcast that Lia made before that.