Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

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Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:
  • Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
  • 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
  • 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
  • Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
  • Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty
TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following initials to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above initials. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR :rolleyes:
 
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I'd be interested to know if and when the Crabbes first heard the FGM calling out for William. If they heard a car doing a U turn in the driveway, surely they would have heard the FM yelling out for him?
The Crabbes did hear a car drive up on the gravel at the end of Beneroon Drive and turn around. It was around the same time as William went missing. She initially thought it was the Postie, but the Postie had already been. It is in Dan Box's podcast that he released a few weeks ago. If you haven't already, I would highly recommend it.
 
The Crabbes did hear a car drive up on the gravel at the end of Beneroon Drive and turn around. It was around the same time as William went missing. She initially thought it was the Postie, but the Postie had already been. It is in Dan Box's podcast that he released a few weeks ago. If you haven't already, I would highly recommend it.
What time was that?
 
I would doubt that someone would do a u-turn at that point. It is very close to the corner (dogleg) and would be poor driving to do it there. Also, if you look at the older google maps versions (2010 is closest), it is quite overgrown with grass, which would lessen the gravel noise.

Where the bitumen ends at the fire track, there is quite a bit of gravel, both at the end of the road and to the left hand side. I think if a u-turn was heard involving gravel, it is a lot more likely to have occurred there.

The Crabbes are also better positioned to hear the gravel noise at the end of the road.

If the U turn was at the end of the road up near the fire track, the vehicle would have gone past 48 Benaroon and the other houses on both sides. Would it not then be incorrect to say the car did a U turn at the FGMs house?

I must be missing something. Did the Crabbes say the U turn was at the FGMs driveway or the end of Benaroon Drive?
 

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If the U turn was at the end of the road up near the fire track, the vehicle would have gone past 48 Benaroon and the other houses on both sides. Would it not then be incorrect to say the car did a U turn at the FGMs house?

I must be missing something. Did the Crabbes say the U turn was at the FGMs driveway or the end of Benaroon Drive?
Presumably it would be a three point turn at the FGM driveway or a U turn at the end of the cul de sac.

You can’t do a U turn proper at 48 BD.
 

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If the U turn was at the end of the road up near the fire track, the vehicle would have gone past 48 Benaroon and the other houses on both sides. Would it not then be incorrect to say the car did a U turn at the FGMs house?

I must be missing something. Did the Crabbes say the U turn was at the FGMs driveway or the end of Benaroon Drive?
On the podcast episode 5 at about 9.00, Dann says the Crabbs heard a car going up the street. (Not sure if there’s anything about a uturn.)
 
On the podcast episode 5 at about 9.00, Dann says the Crabbs heard a car going up the street. (Not sure if there’s anything about a uturn.)
Mrs. Crabb heard a car during her police interview and she identified hearing a car, and this gave her credence in the eyes of the officer as he could verify that she was adept in being able to hear and identify cars.
 
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On the podcast episode 5 at about 9.00, Dann says the Crabbs heard a car going up the street. (Not sure if there’s anything about a uturn.)

I definitely heard or read U turn at the 'driveway' at 48 somewhere, if I come across it again I'll post it.
 
Presumably it would be a three point turn at the FGM driveway or a U turn at the end of the cul de sac.

You can’t do a U turn proper at 48 BD.

I think 'U turn' and 'turn around' are being used interchangeably with the (clear) U turn probably incorrect. The road doesn't get any wider at the top up near the fire trail.
 
IF there was a drive that went that way, I’m unsure why the Police chose that location for the dig - yep, there’s a creek, but why would you leave a body so close to ‘home’.
Well, because she was, by her own admission - very short on time. There wasn’t really time to go too far, even in the car, because someone had to look after FD (who was at home maybe?) and we don’t know if FGM was taking care of things at home or what she was doing when the drive occurred, as the FGM really was very vague in her police walk-through.
 
If the U turn was at the end of the road up near the fire track, the vehicle would have gone past 48 Benaroon and the other houses on both sides. Would it not then be incorrect to say the car did a U turn at the FGMs house?

I must be missing something. Did the Crabbes say the U turn was at the FGMs driveway or the end of Benaroon Drive?

I've never seen it said that the car turned at 48 Benaroon.

I thought it was more a general description of potentially hearing a car, doing a turn, that could have been on gravel. Nothing specific, like most of these witness memories.

It is actually very relevant, because if the turn was made at the end of the road, it is less likely to have been the FM.
Commonsense would say the Crabbes are more likely to hear a gravel-related turn, a) where there is lot more gravel, b) where it is closer to where they were listening and c) where the side of the bitumen is gravel allowing for a wider turn to be made without driving on someone's garden.
 
If there is any damning evidence then it wouldn't have been refuted by lack of cadaver scent at Cobb & co nor lack of forensics there. You can't have it both ways. That location REMAINS the theory it seems..So no, case is shot

Doesn't mean she didn't hide the body. Just not there. Elsewhere
The case is, at this point, totally shot to pieces because police have a suspect, but they don’t have a body and they don’t know where the body is.

And it’s been 10 years, and they are dealing with the remains of a 3-year-old child, which tend to break down over time, which we heard at the inquest this week, and that will make it even harder to ever find him.

The main person of interest has:

*No alibi (making tea is not an alibi)
*No one to corroborate alibi
*No independent verification of what she was doing on that morning apart from that she was in the place where William was and then she went for a drive and when the foster father came home, William was gone


The only thing we know for sure about her is that she was there with William and then she went for a drive and then she came back and at some point within that hour, he disappeared.

This POI had:

*Means
*Motive
*Opportunity

And she had means, motive and opportunity for murder, manslaughter and accidental death cover-up, so it really doesn’t narrow it down.

Imho: I think the accidental death theory can be put to the side. There is no evidence he fell off the balcony. No blood detected at the bottom of the balcony, nothing.

I’m sort of sitting with murderer, manslaughter or stranger abduction and consequent murder (or manslaughter after abduction).

AFAIK; The police have no leads as to where William might be. Oh he might be in a clearing, ok. He might be in the bush. Even the Crime Commissioner lawyer couldn’t pin down which State William might be in when she tried to interview the FM.

I think the Deputy Coroner might say in her findings that it’s her view that William has died. I think that’s probably a certainty at this point.

I also want to point out that Lynette Dawson is still missing, in the sense that she as tragically murdered by her husband and the dig that police did to attempt to find her never turned up her body. She’s probably missing in the bush somewhere too. But it doesn’t mean that there was no resolution of her case.

I’ve just linked in a piece here about Lyn Dawson and her legacy of the no body no parole laws. https://amp.9news.com.au/article/cdbfc671-5534-447c-a17f-90393eb92a43

“The New South Wales justice system will now refer to 'nobody, no parole' laws as Lyn's Law, after Lyn Dawson's family fought for decades to honour the slain mother with meaningful reform.

Lyn Dawson was murdered in 1982, however, her body was never found, and her murder remained unsolved for 40 years.

Her husband Chris Dawson was convicted of her murder in 2022.”
 
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I've never seen it said that the car turned at 48 Benaroon.

I thought it was more a general description of potentially hearing a car, doing a turn, that could have been on gravel. Nothing specific, like most of these witness memories.

It is actually very relevant, because if the turn was made at the end of the road, it is less likely to have been the FM.
Commonsense would say the Crabbes are more likely to hear a gravel-related turn, a) where there is lot more gravel, b) where it is closer to where they were listening and c) where the side of the bitumen is gravel allowing for a wider turn to be made without driving on someone's garden.

I agree, exactly where the Crabbes thought the car made the turn is very relevant and if it was certainly at the top end near the fire trail, it probably wasn't either of the fosters.
 

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'Our primary objective is to recover William’s body and to allow it to be respectfully interred, to accept he is gone and won’t be coming back,' the Commissioner told her

'We all accept you loved William and would not have intentionally done him harm.

'We all accept accidents can happen and even the most organised persons .. can be forced to make snap decisions.

'If that is what happened on the day William went missing, this is your chance to safely and privately explain that.'



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14051037/Did-William-Tyrrells-body-time-secret-tapes-played-court-little-boys-foster-mother-responded-point-blank-question.htmlico=authors_pagination_mobile

Is it just me or did the Commissioner at the Crime Commission seemed pretty certain that William was deceased, and that the focus was to bring him home to give him a proper burial?

How did they know he wasn’t still alive?


I think they knew some things that we as the public do not know.
 
If it’s the postie she might have been doing her run later than first assumed due to media. If the postie was in Kendall not yet started her mail run after 9, (a car was heard) maybe she was delivering at the time William ‘disappeared.’
Maybe she can confirm if there was any commotion going on looking for a child. Maybe she can verify who’s cars are in the drive.
Let’s find the postie
 
What! Are you serious?
(to quote one of your responses to a post of mine today)

The postie likely was too exposed and vulnerable a public figure of wherever she has worked as a delivery postie for her info on other locals to be made public. IMHO.
Please pardon my turn of phrase BFew it’s been a very long month (week).

Since when can a postie be exempt?
 
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How did we miss this? Anybody? She got out of the car.

This might be where she's going to say she heard something and went scrambling in the bushes.
I also didn’t know she got out of the car- been following this case for years
How did we miss this? Anybody? She got out of the car.

This might be where she's going to say she heard something and went scrambling in the bushes.
I also didn’t know she got out of the car- been following this case for years
 
Great questions.
In his interview on Sunday the 14th they went over this twice. At this stage I don't think they had even got the tennis club CCTV.
This is what he says:

I know I needed actually
be somewhere in positioned in a, in a good location settled, set up my
computer get all my services ready to do my presentation at 9.30.
Um, so I did that I set it up in the car park I think it's, is it Lake Cathie
on the way out to Laurieton? ...
There's the, a Woolworths there on the left with the, I don't what it's or
how you pronounce it Khodary Pharmacist's
Ah, so I could see O.K. Khodary ah, I'd have to go there so, I sat
there and I was looking at the, at the Woolworths Shopping Centre.
And .1 was online um, and I've got phone numbers wherever I've now
put my phone, it's here. Um, I called, I had a, an online meeting with
ah, someone urn, in Queensland.
and then urn, I made a
phone call to a prospect on the way back. And that was at about
10.15. Ah, and then when I got here at 10.30 I drove up the driveway,
oh, I did oh, sorry I did stop off at the corner store for [FGM] to get
two papers.


Then later in the interview they go over it again:

Urn, now sorry can you just take me through you, you left about just
before 9.00?
Yeah.
And you went to Lakewood?
Yeah.
And you went to a chemist?
Yeah.
And - - -
Went to the chemist after my meeting.
Sorry and you O.K. So can you, you, did you drive to the shopping
centre - --
Yeah.
- - - or anywhere else?
No, just straight to the shopping centre.
Yeah.
Um, picked a position to sit in.
Yeah.
A And I don't want to sit like, in a concrete wall, um, you know. I sat
looking out. I could see where the chemist was so, where I needed to
go afterwards. Um, I kind of knew this was going to be a relatively
boring meeting because - - -
Q219 Ah hmm.
A - - - urn, I'd tried to set it up or I'd had, I'd had to reschedule this
meeting three times for someone in Queensland.
Q220 [23.45] Yeah.
A Urn, ah, I called them set up the meeting um, you know, the online
demonstration took a little bit of time to set up actually - - -
Q221 Yeah.
A - - - because urn, the initial one that we were, I was using it can't, a
product called WebEx didn't work.
Q222 Yeah.
A She couldn't get it to work so, I used another product we call you
know, call urn, ah, Go to My PC.
Q223 Yeah, and it's - - -
A Yeah.
Q224 Can you just tell me who that, who that online demonstration or, or
meeting was with again sorry I - - -
A Yeah, yeah. No, I can - - -
Q225 You did tell me.
A - - - I'll bring it up for you here it urn, urn no, hang on a second there
we go ah, the company was Friday morning. It's called Brody
Corporation.
Q226 Yeah.
A Ah, the lady's name is Joy Chesterfield.
Q227 O,K. And what time did that start and end?
A The meeting, the meeting started at 9.30 - - -
Q228 Yeah.
A - - - I always call early.
Q229 Yeah
Because IT or related issues in regards to sometimes, because
sometimes people use Mac's or PC's and sometimes I have to use
different types of products in order to set up the meeting.
Q230 [24.23] Yeah.
A Ah, and then we go through what they wanted to cover.
Q231 O.K.
A I, I always allow my diaries when I'm doing meetings with, with these
types of people though I always allow up to an hour.
Q232 Yeah.
A Ah, but in this instance, I knew it wouldn't go that long.
Q233 O.K.
A Urn, it went for and I think it for about, actually it's on my phone.
What's the number I called 7-2-9-0 7-2-9-0. Friday, thirty nine
minutes.
Q234 Thirty nine minutes?
A From 9.17.
Q235 And do you mind reading that number out for me?
A
Q236 Thanks a lot.
A So, then after that.
Q237 Yeah.
A I finished my meeting.
Q238 Yeah.
A I had also received a phone call as I went into sorry, I'm pretty. pretty
precise.
Q239 No, that's fine that's great.
A Mmm, um ---
Q240 [25.36} That's excellent.
A - - - I received a phone call - - -
Q241 Yeah.
A _- - -Ifrom I think this one here. And this number here think her name is Belinda Rankin, she is a recruiter.
Oh, no that's one I missed, maybe it's here, I can get her details, I
can't remember where it is, anyway it, so, it's one of the recruiters
rang - - -
Yeah.
- - - oh, and I rang back that's right I got her voice mail and straight,
and rang her straight back - - -
Yeah.
- - - left a message. So, I then rang her and spoke to her.
And just that number again . - --
Looks like it's _
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that right?
Yeah, that's right because she rang me on Thursday and left a
message as I was coming up here and I didn't want, I didn't know who
it was, I didn't recognise the number - - -
[26.25] Yeah.
- - - because you can see it's there on the Thursday. See on the way
up here?
Yeah.
5.29 I didn't want to answer any calls.
Sure.
Because I was driving as well as I had everyone in the car, I don't
want them to listen to that.
Ah hmm.
And so, that's when I rang back. Um, and then urn, so to the recruiter
while I was actually filling my script.
Yeah.
Filled the script
So, what time do you think that would have been, looking at that, that,
that call?
A Um - --
0256 That you would have had with the recruiter, 9.45am it's a missed call
is that right?
A Yeah, but then I would have called back - - -
0257 And then you rang back.
A - - - I would have rung, oh, that's the missed call.
0258 Yeah.
A But it doesn't show when you call your voice mail.
0259 O.K.
A So, I've rung my voicemail.
0260 [27.03] O.K.
A I've listened to her message.
0261 Yeah.
A And then I've gone 2-2. You know when, Telstra, you just put it 2-2 --
0262 O.K.
A - - - and it brings back that person.
0263 Sure, yeah. Yeah.
A But it doesn't show on here - -
0264 O.K.
A - - - it only shows the missed call coming in - - -
0265 That _ ?
A - - - not going out.
0266 Yeah.
0267 Mmm.
A Yeah, O.K. Then after that phone call and I was actually trying to get
her off the phone because I was in the chemist and I said, look I'm in
a chemist. I'm trying to fill a script, I've got to get home - - -
0268 Yeah.
A - - - I bet she's trying to sell me roles et cetera.
0269 Yeah.
A Um, and then I rang, this is an outbound calli, I had to make.
0270 [27.31] Yeah.
A This is a prospect of mine, it's called •••••••
0271 Yeah.
A In Breakfast Point.
0272 Yeah.
A In Sydney metro, her name is Corinne Paterson.
0273 Corinne Paterson.
A Paterson.
0274 Yeah.
A Her numbers.
Q275 Yeah.
...
A And I rang her to clarify her moving forward with the sale.
Q280 [28.021 O.K.
A And she said, it's all green lights.
0281 And what time was that [FF]
A Um,10.23.
Q282 10.23. Yeah. O.K. And then what happened after that?
A Well that was, I rang her on the way back from Lake is it Lakewood?
0283 Lakewood.
A All right. After I'd left the, ah, urn, there. I was making that on the
way back
A I was then stopped in traffic because of the roadwork's that they're
dOing on that, on the road back and into, towards Lake ah, Lakewood
and Laurieton - - -
Q285 Yeah.
A - - - it was a forty kilometre zone.
0286 O.K. Yeah.
A So, I stopped there ah, and that's then it I remembered that I had to
stop on the way back um, to get the papers for [FGM]
0287 Yeah.
A So I stopped in there and I, the lady knows me, I mean, you know not
that well but well enough. She recognised me and I said oh, have you
got the paper there for [FGM] oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0288 And where was that [FF]
Just the, the local urn, I even call it, I actually call it the General Store
in, in, urn, in Kendall as you come up the hill.
0289 Yeah.
A You know they've got feed for cattle and - - -
Q290 [29.05] Yeah.
A - - - and all that sorts of stuff as well as you know chocolate Mars
Bars, eggs and milk and all sorts of, they've got, they've got
everything.
0291 Yeah.
A Um, so I picked up those papers.
Q292 Yeah.
A Ah, it was at that point I'm pretty sure I sent [FM] a text saying um,
I'm on my way - - -
0293 Yeah.
A - - - I'll, I'll be, be there in five minutes.
Q294 Yeah.
A Urn, here we go.
Q295 And what time was that?
A 10.30am exactly.



So FF provided police with a pretty detailed alibi, including names and phone numbers of people to verify.
However, you are correct, there is nothing to confirm his actions between 8:50am (when he passed the tennis club) and 9:17am (when he started the meeting). He says he spent this time setting up the online meeting / demonstration. I guess police could have asked for more detail about this or asked him to show them what he did and why it took so long to set up.

I personally don't think 27 minutes is long enough to get from a fairly busy main road in Kendall, dispose of a body without trace in broad daylight, and return to Lakewood shops and start an online meeting.
I just wanted to re-publish the FF alibi as presented by the awesome 31550 in case that’s helpful at this point.

Please see above.
 
Is it semantics ?

FM threw something out of the car ?

FM Got outta the car ?

FM head was outta the car ?

Seems we are all drilling down on the "word" - when perhaps some articles are "plumped up" or misheard and printed.
Yes.
It's getting ridiculous.
 

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Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

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