Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Earls Smother]

Have a look at what you asked and what I answered.
No, they would NOT know that she travelled OR what time she travelled. They would only know that her phone was on and within range of a certain tower (which could be 1km away or 10km away).
To know THAT she travelled, they would have to know the LOCATION of one or more pings.
A phone pings when it is on whether it is moving or not.
A phone does not ping when it is switched off.

I queried movement in general and times. You responded to location, which I admitted they couldn't triangulate.

Why has there been a page and a half re "controlling the comms" by taking all 3 phones, which you know very well didn't happen, then when someone responds to point that out to people, you jump in and debate with the poster who is actually correct?

I'm not a telco expert, but based on what the discussion was (3 phones taken), there would surely be some indication that she moved if that had been the case? If she drove 2 km over 10 minutes, with 3 phones (why would you take them if they were all off), there would be indications of movement and the time period in which that movement occurred.

 

[31550]

Why has there been a page and a half re "controlling the comms" by taking all 3 phones,

You would need to ask the people who contributed to that page and a half, not me.
I don't believe she took any phones.
I believe it is accepted that she did drive somewhere, in her mother's car, between the time William disappeared, and the time she actually told anyone he was missing.

It seems you are the one trying to 'control the narrative'.

 

[LRitz]

That's not what I heard the FM say in response to the NSW Crime Commissioner interrogator.

I recall part of her response being something along the lines of (with incredulity) throwing the questioning back at the interrogator and questioning how she could have used a landline away from the home.

And something about how the FGM did not know how to use her mobile phone and that the FGM's mobile phone was usually kept in a draw? in the house, and with no battery charge in it.

Yes. 100%

This is a very specific question. I could see police asking FM if she took her phone, but to take FGM phone and the landline hand set is crazy. Do police have some information. Did FD say FM took the phones off Nanna, just a possible idea.
It seems phone reception is poor in the area, but maybe Batar Creek Rd is OK and phones pinged. Phones can be tracked even if turned off. Maybe this is why police think that FM did drive in the direction of Cobb and Co Rd, and not just because of her alleged story.

Remember Joe Tripodi driving to Wellington to see Tony Kelly and even though his phone was off "....He was then informed the corruption watchdog was able to track his movements by his car's satellite navigation system...".

Phone turned off before Joe Tripodi's big trip

Tony Kelly was shocked to open the door at his Wellington home to find his former colleague Joe Tripodi standing there with a hamburger in one hand and a coffee in the other.

www.smh.com.au

FM arguments do not prove she did not take the phones. Her tactic, distraction, change the questioning and smoke and mirrors. How can we prove FGM's phone was flat. She says she could not use the landline which is true , but does not answer if she took the phone.

And, as others have posted, Why?

 

[31550]

Phones can be tracked even if turned off.

How?

 

[Earls Smother]

So you argue that the accident/ incident/ misadventure leading to death and then cover up is (practically) impossible. So therefore ..... there is another solution He must have been adducted.
Is this what you mean?

Sounds like a motte-and- bailey tactic.

No, in this instance I am suggesting the likelihood of the FF jumping on board and continuing a cover-up, requires so many additional components to fall into place.

One person deciding in a minute or 2 to cover up an incident is a lot more likely than a second person joining in. If it happened that way, 99% of fathers (foster or not) would say, "come on dear, I understand why you panicked, but we need to admit you've made a mistake and tell the police".

 

[31550]

No, in this instance I am suggesting the likelihood of the FF jumping on board and continuing a cover-up, requires so many additional components to fall into place.

One person deciding in a minute or 2 to cover up an incident is a lot more likely than a second person joining in. If it happened that way, 99% of fathers (foster or not) would say, "come on dear, I understand why you panicked, but we need to admit you've made a mistake and tell the police".

Yeah right, then his whole world comes crashing down. Loses his wife, foster daughter and foster son all in one fell swoop. Gone is the image of a happy successful family, and back to being a 50-something single loser who has made bad choices with his relationship.

 

[BFew]

How?

Possibly when infected (i.e NSA/CIA?) with spyware or hardware modified in a way that forces the handset to continue emitted a signal unless the battery is removed, or any inserted tracking chip removed.

 

[Earls Smother]

Yes, and not go out into the bush alone and search for WT. Sounds like BS to me!

Why?

If that was my son, I would have tossed and turned all night and barely slept. I would get up as soon as I could (dawn) and feel the need to do something practical - keep looking. I wouldn't care what the police had told me, or what medical episode I had experienced, I would get up and go and search.

Would have been a lot more worrying if he had a bit of a sleep-in and acted normal. That would indicate he felt it was pointless to search because he knew he wasn't there.

 

[31550]

Possibly when infected (i.e NSA/CIA?) with spyware or hardware modified in a way that forces the handset to continue emitted a signal unless the battery is removed, or any inserted tracking chip removed.

You really think this is the case here? Or are you just blowing smoke?

 

[alwaysintrigued]

alwaysintrigued
What's your recollection or notes have recorded from Thursday last week at the inquest when in the 2021 NSW Crime Commission recording, the Foster Mother was questioned about something like her maybe having taken 3 phones with her on that claimed single car trip to look for William?
1. FM's mobile
2. FGM's mobile
3. The fixed line phone in the FGM's home.
Maybe it isn't of much importance seeing as how the media does not appear to have reported on it yet .

I faintly recall that something like this might have been mentioned in a podcast? ages ago.

That she was asked about 3 phones & the commissioner, Mr Barnes ordered those phones to be produced, as you are well aware of. It's not been reported on that I have seen, so maybe it's not of importance.

That's not what I heard the FM say in response to the NSW Crime Commissioner interrogator.

I recall part of her response being something along the lines of (with incredulity) throwing the questioning back at the interrogator and questioning how she could have used a landline away from the home.

And something about how the FGM did not know how to use her mobile phone and that the FGM's mobile phone was usually kept in a draw? in the house, and with no battery charge in it.

Yes. 100%

Correct. She said " Trying to understand why I would take mum's phone"

BFew, have I got this right? You're not sure what was said at the inquest so maybe you're not telling us the facts as they were presented, but now you're mocking the person who could?

Pretty disingenuous really, for someone who is a long term poster here & to continually ask questions of me, implying they were not there. Take that how ever you wish. I've answered honestly.

Any inquest room posts I make in here using language like "something like", are used when I did not write down what I heard/saw as things were being spoken/seen in the inquest room, thus I probably can't reliably quote exactly what was said, as someone else in the inquest room who did.

Like the "official" media and other posters in here, there will likely be mistakes, mis-hearings, and omissions in what is written/typed/recollected (at the time or a later date) about what is heard/seen in the inquest room. Hopefully only minor/immaterial ones.

Happy to take a further back seat in this thread from now on and you'all can just feed off possibly more reliable sources, and I'll just assume that if none of the media report something from an inquest, then it is either subject to a non-disclosure order (and shouldn't even be mentioned in here), or is not important enough to be reported on.

Nah I'll leave you to report on what you heard & saw. Have I reported anything in a disingenuous way? I don't believe I have.

I heard the NSW CC grilled her on why she deleted at least one text the day William is reported to have gone missing (the one from the the FF saying he would be home in 5 minutes).

Feel free to report / share on what you heard & saw.

The NSW Crime Commission recording played to the inquest on Thursday this week, had something on what was in that garage. Including drops (I assume this is drop sheets) & the FGF's tools.

Feel free to report / share what you heard & saw

alwaysintrigued can you please confirm what you heard on Thursday at the inquest re the above?

Why can't you do it yourself?

At the inquest on Thursday, in the 2021 NSW Crime Commission Recordings, the Foster Mother was asked something like either whether the FGM car was already unlocked that morning, or whether the FGM normally leaves the car unlocked.

Maybe alwaysintrigued can help us out on the details here of both the NSW Crime Commission question, and the Foster Mother's reply.

Again, why can't you?

So how come none of the media appear to have reported/published on things like the mention of the drops sheets, and the questioning of the foster mother about the FGM's car locked/unlocked situation?

You could always contact them & ask them why they have not reported about this?

Which media article did this come from?
I now recall reading something like this recently.

I'm sure you do.

So it obviously wasn't very important, or old news, or the media would have reported on it .

Such a charmer aren't you? All along playing your fellow posters......

In the media room, whilst the inquest is in session, could the media, see (on one of the screens) the faces of most of the public (including the fosters) and media in the main inquest room?

Again, you know the answer as you say were there, so why ask me?

I speculate that many of the media would have wanted to be in the inquest room (as opposed to the media room) to be able to more clearly have a better opportunity to see/hear the demeanour and reactions of the FM, FF, and some key NSW Police figures.

Probably

I got a sense that the question was probably asked to see how the FM reacted to and responded to any questions asked about the garage.

I'm struggling to recall and don't have a written record of how far apart the drop sheets discussion was from the car keys discussion in the NSW Crime Commission recording played on Thursday at the inquest.

She didn't seem to respond any differently to all the other question IMO

Otherwise known as a cordless phone.

But maybe she just picked up the whole lot (either cordless and maybe the base station) or unplugged a big handset from the wall socket and took the thing with her to prevent anyone in the home from making phone calls whilst she was out?

Maybe

I just thought it would be good to post some factual things that it seems you guys weren't aware of, maybe I was wrong?

I guess I was wrong, that your fellow poster seems is not so genuine.......


I've genuinely tried to answer all the questions asked of me, as I re-call or have noted down by me after attending 2 days of the latest round of the inquest.

Have a great day

 

[31550]

Why?

If that was my son, I would have tossed and turned all night and barely slept. I would get up as soon as I could (dawn) and feel the need to do something practical - keep looking. I wouldn't care what the police had told me, or what medical episode I had experienced, I would get up and go and search.

Would have been a lot more worrying if he had a bit of a sleep-in and acted normal. That would indicate he felt it was pointless to search because he knew he wasn't there.

So you wouldn't have returned home in the early evening, cooked dinner, drank wine, and been in bed by 9pm either then?

 

[Earls Smother]

So you wouldn't have returned home in the early evening, cooked dinner, drank wine, and been in bed by 9pm either then?

Probably not, no. A little bit different if you know others are still looking though.

 

[BFew]

You really think this is the case here? Or are you just blowing smoke?

Can You Track Phone When it's Turned Off? Apparently, Yes!

Wanna track a phone which is switched off? Apparently, NSA has devised ways to track even those turned off smartphones. Read on for more details.

techpp.com

 

[truecrimepath]

Phone tracking is an active process when turned off. Telcos can actively look for a phone in an emergency. They can’t retrospectively look for a phone turned off. In the case of apple find my phone technology has been present since 2020. Unsure about 2014 though.

We are still are unsure why the crime commission asked about the phones. It possibly suggests that the phones were turned off and they want to know why. When they were turned off would be known.

Someone earlier said the FM phone was turned off. I find this hard to believe given the text message from the FF.

If however she has included this in her statement and they know the phone was actually turned off ….. we have a confirmed lie.

 

[BFew]

Again, you know the answer as you say were there, so why ask me?

You think I was in the media room at the inquest?

 

[31550]

Can You Track Phone When it's Turned Off? Apparently, Yes!

Wanna track a phone which is switched off? Apparently, NSA has devised ways to track even those turned off smartphones. Read on for more details.

techpp.com

So you think FM was being investigated by law enforcement before William even went missing? Do tell!

 

[BFew]

I'm sure you do.

Opinion dressed up as fact here

 

[BFew]

So you think FM was being investigated by law enforcement before William even went missing? Do tell!

No.
I was just answering the question in general that the poster asked.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

You think I was in the media room at the inquest?

I don't know where you were, nor do I really care.

Glad you were there to hear the evidence / testimony thou.

 

[31550]

Phone tracking is an active process when turned off. Telcos can actively look for a phone in an emergency. They can’t retrospectively look for a phone turned off. In the case of apple find my phone technology has been present since 2020. Unsure about 2014 though.

We are still are unsure why the crime commission asked about the phones. It possibly suggests that the phones were turned off and they want to know why. When they were turned off would be known.

Someone earlier said the FM phone was turned off. I find this hard to believe given the text message from the FF.

If however she has included this in her statement and they know the phone was actually turned off ….. we have a confirmed lie.

I suggest you have a look at the FM 2015 police statement which has phone records attached.

Unfortunately these records are incomplete and show only outgoing calls.

You can see that her phone made a D1 connection around 2pm on the Friday, indicating it was connecting to the network from a previously disconnected state. There is no recorded OUTGOING activity preceding this after around 4.30pm on the Thursday. So her phone was switched off some time in between these two events. Or at least out of cell tower range.

Or the bugging device BFew thinks she had didn't work.

 

[31550]

No.
I was just answering the question in general that the poster asked.

Yeah no. It was a smart arse response which diverts the discussion. IMO

 

[Wallace52]

I think it was 9.10

So maybe the photo times are wrong. Maybe FM was out driving at this time with 3 phones in her car.

Right ?!

 

[truecrimepath]

I suggest you have a look at the FM 2015 police statement which has phone records attached.

Unfortunately these records are incomplete and show only outgoing calls.

You can see that her phone made a D1 connection around 2pm on the Friday, indicating it was connecting to the network from a previously disconnected state. There is no recorded OUTGOING activity preceding this after around 4.30pm on the Thursday. So her phone was switched off some time in between these two events. Or at least out of cell tower range.

Or the bugging device BFew thinks she had didn't work.

If the phone was turned off, How did she get the text message from the FF?

The telco will know when the phone was turned on and when calls were made to her phone. Was the text message in her evidence?

At the start of last weeks hearing, Craddock mentions three facts, the 9.37 photo, the text message and the 000 call. I found this an odd opening statement. Maybe he was pointing out that that they are there not all facts!

 

[LRitz]

Is it correct to say that all Foster family reported that W would go down hill? This is the way he'd come? I hadn't noticed that before........but it could be intentional misinformation to direct the narrative away from the fire trail end of Benaroon?

As I recall there was narrative line by the fosters that William would only travel down hill. It sounds rehearsed, IMO. Downhill explains how he got to the road. It also means he would have headed straight in the direction of the two mystery cars, and adds to the "he's been taken" narrative. And yes away from the fire trail.

FF in his walkthrough was being asked why he had first looked in an area, FF said word to the effect: "He's got asthma . He probably wouldn't spend his time going up hill. It would just be too hard for him.....I guess he's a little bit like water, it's the path of least resistance. He would go down..."

FGM in her walkthrough is saying that FM literally ran down the street. FGM is explaining that the reason FM ran that way is because it is downhill and this is the direction William would go. 14.50 FGM "......because we both knew that if he was, he would be going down, he would be going down hill, knowing the little boy ..."

And then later in FGM walkthrough - , it is a bit confusing as it sound like police interviewer says "he" but I think she meant "you". Police interviewer asks FGM Q: "so you think he would have come back this way?"
FGM answer : "...Well you see he's a little boy. He wouldn't be climbing up. He would be going down.."
Police Question : "Would he run up and down the hill?"
FGM Answer: " No No"

Note. My transcripts so maybe not exactly as said.

 

[31550]

Re the last couple of pages:


The FF having a medical episode after dinner is easily explained. Shock is designed to protect people initially. When the shock wears off, reality sets in. He probably was seeing news items on TV about it. Perfectly normal to be hit hardest some hours after the initial event. To use these things as potential indication of something more sinister is really ordinary IMO.

Let's look at the chronology of events from the FF perspective.
He returns home at 10:35 whereupon he is informed William is missing.
Then he visits the Millers. Then he searches the back yard and is heard calling William at ~ 10:40 while AMS is talking to FM. Then he sees FM and she asks him if she should call 000, which she does at ~ 10:57.
Then at 11:05 or soon after he is observed by police coming out of the FGM bathroom.
Witnesses describe his demeanour as 'distraught, frantic, upset'.
Several hours of searching take place. Dogs called in, neighbours rally. SES involvement. Police set up command post. Presumably police speak to him and counsel him?
Then in early evening he is observed having a home cooked dinner and drinking wine.
We know he suffered from anxiety and has medication for that on hand - he filled his prescription that very morning.
He has had 7 or 8 hours to process the situation and react.
Then something happens, causing an ambulance to be called.
What?
Could be anything, but the only people present seem to be FM, FGM and William's sister.
Was he told something which brought on an anxiety attack?
Granted this is all speculative, but what are the other possible explanations?
Then he is missing from the house at first light, on his own. Nobody knows where he went or when he returned.
Wouldn't police or ambos or even his wife have advised him that this is not a good idea?