Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[Underarrest_]

It's not a matter of winning or losing.
It's a matter of presenting facts which are actual truths, not lies or opinions stated as facts.
Everyone here has an interest. We should encourage people who are interested in the truth, and discourage others.

I believe every one here has a genuine interest and want the truth.
I’d suggest you read EarlSmothers post 6075.
Half of what’s been presented as facts is based on memory.
We don’t know what evidence/facts there is.

 

[31550]

I believe every one here has a genuine interest and want the truth.
I’d suggest you read EarlSmothers post 6075.
Half of what’s been presented as facts is based on memory.
We don’t know what evidence/facts there is.

Memories aren't facts.

 

[Underarrest_]

Memories aren't facts.

Research about human beings and trauma memory is the best you’re going to get.
FF having an anxiety attack because he was told is not fact but discussed.
It would be good if we can just respect each other’s opinions/views.
We’ve all got something to give through our own lived experiences.
Hopefully the police have the facts.

 

[Earls Smother]

It's not a matter of winning or losing.
It's a matter of presenting facts which are actual truths, not lies or opinions stated as facts.
Everyone here has an interest. We should encourage people who are interested in the truth, and discourage others.

What some state as facts to support their viewpoint, are not necessarily indisputable facts.

An example is William did not leave the property on foot. On here this is deemed fact, which of course limits discussion options. It cannot be 100% certain this is the case. The dogs are fallible and they hardly had pristine conditions to work in.

There is every chance he went at least to the edge of the road opposite number 35, maybe a bit further. GJ states that his sister likely was the last one to see him and said he was looking for daddy.

I can’t say this definitely happened, but nor can you say it definitely didn’t. This forum seems to have ruled this out as an acceptable discussion point. You seem to be the gatekeeper on insuring it is shouted down at every opportunity.

Your “facts” should not be more readily accepted just because you and a few others say so.

 

[31550]

Research about human beings and trauma memory is the best you’re going to get.
FF having an anxiety attack because he was told is not fact but discussed.
It would be good if we can just respect each other’s opinions/views.
We’ve all got something

When did I state that as a fact?
I asked the question, "Did someone tell him something that caused an anxiety attack?"
This is a question. It is not stated as fact that he had an attack for that reason.
It is a fact that an ambulance was called for FF that evening. It is a fact that he suffered from anxiety for which he was taking prescribed medication and had the prescription filled that day. All supported by documentary evidence.

 

[Underarrest_]

When did I state that as a fact?
I asked the question, "Did someone tell him something that caused an anxiety attack?"
This is a question. It is not stated as fact that he had an attack for that reason.
It is a fact that an ambulance was called for FF that evening. It is a fact that he suffered from anxiety for which he was taking prescribed medication and had the prescription filled that day. All supported by documentary evidence.

As I said it is not a fact but it was discussed.

 

[31550]

There is every chance he went at least to the edge of the road opposite number 35, maybe a bit further. GJ states that his sister likely was the last one to see him and said he was looking for daddy

These are not facts either.

 

[Lady O]

You can't both be Dan Box! One can be Dan and one can be Box.

 

[Earls Smother]

Memories aren't facts.

No, but the fact they can be distorted after trauma is a fact.

The only facts are the ones listed by Craddock at the start of the inquest. There are not many of them.

 

[gymjam]

No, she didn’t volunteer at the Kendall Op Shop.

Sorry I have put an edit in to read the foster grandmother volunteered at the op shop.

 

[Earls Smother]

These are not facts either.

Where did I say they were?

 

[gymjam]

Some how I missed media articles that stated after the 2018 Cedar Loggers Lane search that Jubelin led they then went onto search Batar Creek Road in 2018 as well. Anyone read if anything of interest was found during these searches?

 

[gymjam]

Again, Michelle White is hardly a definitive or reliable source for this information. Police should be cross checking vehicles belonging to close associates. Police have accepted they drove up in one car. Hence, they should be focussed on vehicles regularly garaged in Kendall.

Slightly related - do we know why the deputy coroner was so interested in Peter the truck driver, and was the black Camry or its driver ever identified? Wouldn't think that there were too many black Camrys in NSW in 2014. But maybe focus on those in northern NSW registered to or associated with blonde females. Not exactly a needle in a haystack.

Didn't FF have a run in with a guy who was searching Benaroon and came up to him and insisted he need to look inside no. 48. FF said he was linked to a black Camry too. Anyone know when FF talked about this?

 

[gymjam]

Do you know where it moved to?

The Kendall showgrounds and then to Cedar Loggers Lane opposite to where the 2018 search was.

 

[gymjam]

I see no need to make one dependent on the other. The only charges in play relate to what happened after William died.
The inquest is concerned with HOW he died.
Don't expect the inquest to go over matters which are matters for the Criminal Court unless they actually overlap.

Is the Inquest really concerned about how William died or is it searching for evidence that supports a finding that William is likely deceased?

 

[gymjam]

Maybe. By 'returned the brief' I did not mean physically threw it back to NSWPOL. I meant put the ball back into NSWPOL hands for the next steps.

I understood that the Coroner must conclude an Inquest with findings which may also include a recommendation to proceed to laying charges and then the police polish off their Brief of Evidence and then forward such to the ODPP for a decision as to whether there is enough supporting evidence to lay charges and move to a trial of facts.

I believe that just prior to the big search commencing at end 2020 Laidlaw's senior Danny Bennett in a standup media release stated police would be operating under the Coroners' instructions and she would be kept abridged of progress.

Please feel free to correct any misunderstandings that you consider I may have.

 

[gymjam]

I thought the DPP was just sitting on the brief until the Coroner's inquiry was concluded? Decision delayed.

Delayed possibly because the Inquest had not concluded.

 

[gymjam]

FGM's house was examined and I'm guessing photographed two days after William went missing. (I don't know how that timing compares with other missing person cases, but my point is just that it was done.)

From Snr Cst Hudson's witness statement (post 397) which refers to FGM as "FFCM" (female foster carer's mother):

[Sunday 14 Sep 2014]

20. "About 1-37pm I assisted Crime Scene Officer Sergeant Shane Guymer and gained consent from the owner of premises 48 Benaroon Drive (FFCM). The consent form was filled out and signed by (FFCM). All persons left the premises whilst Sergeant Guymer conducted his examination. I returned to the command post."

A full forensic examination including with relevant search dogs took place on 19 September 2014. This is the day the foster family returned to Sydney. It is also the day that electronic files including photograph files were subjected to the forensic interrogation using X-Ways.

 

[gymjam]

On the podcast ‘one last roar’ she clearly says that she felt relieved he would be home soon after receiving the text. About 7 minutes, This was podcast was subpoenaed. No one knows why it was subpoenaed.

So she claims to receive the text at the time. 31550 has shown evidence earlier the phone may have been off. The crime commission is asking about the phone and the text. I am wondering whether the crime commission knows the phone was off and that she has lied about it in her statements. You see the telco will be able to tell if the phone is off or on.

What would happen if location was turned off? I know that doesn't make a difference for 000 calls and police tele and other emergency and govt numbers because they still get the caller's number but if a phone is idle what if the location is off?

Wasn't there some talk about FM disconnecting a sim from its network on 9 Sep 14 and that phone had been registered in FF name and he had no idea about that when interviewed by GJ in 2016? She may have accessed a new sim?

the 9th Sept was the day of email chain between FM and Young Hope care workers apparently she was in a bit of a mentally stressed state about William's behavioral issues as described by her.

 

[MarkyMark88]

Is there any witness to the FF returning after his meeting and the "do you have William" conversation in the driveway?

 

[stormbird]

It was the exchange between AMS and FM words to effect

' he's either hit his head and cant hear me or has been taken'

Very incriminating as a first remark looking for your son

It wasn't said when they first met.

A tweet by @LetishaMarambio from the inquest, 26 March 2019 (bolded by me):

'Neighbour Anne Marie helped look but after a while she ran into William's foster mum again - "She was rather upset and said something to the effect he’s either hit his head and can’t hear me or somebody’s taken him.'
@10NewsFirstSyd @10Daily

 

[stormbird]

Is there any witness to the FF returning after his meeting and the "do you have William" conversation in the driveway?

FF said he was met by FM and William's sister - at 4:37 minutes in part 1 of a 2015 audio interview for Daily/Sunday Telegraph:

 

[shorsky]

How?

They can be tracked via IMEI or by GPS functions or certain phones have ‘back door’ access etc, as long as it has a battery & is not locked in a bunker!
But access to this information is dependant on police / network enquiry. iPhones are pretty useful in the right hands.

 

[jason_recliner]

What some state as facts to support their viewpoint, are not necessarily indisputable facts.

An example is William did not leave the property on foot. On here this is deemed fact, which of course limits discussion options. It cannot be 100% certain this is the case. The dogs are fallible and they hardly had pristine conditions to work in.

There is every chance he went at least to the edge of the road opposite number 35, maybe a bit further. GJ states that his sister likely was the last one to see him and said he was looking for daddy.

I can’t say this definitely happened, but nor can you say it definitely didn’t. This forum seems to have ruled this out as an acceptable discussion point. You seem to be the gatekeeper on insuring it is shouted down at every opportunity.

Your “facts” should not be more readily accepted just because you and a few others say so.

Yup.

 

[shorsky]

I think to be suspicious of having been tracked to Kendall would be a reasonable thing to think. Particularly given William had been taken previously. That's not "uncommon awareness", it's logical IMO.

They are looking for explanations. To not do so, would be more indicative of not bothering because you knew what had happened to him.

I struggle to comprehend why some people make comments such as William had been taken previously.

The only time William was ‘taken’ previously was under lawful execution, into the FACS system, and simultaneously handed over to fosters .

For the rest of his very young life, he was in the loving care of his parents.