Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * FM guilty of assault & intimidation

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Suppression orders are in force, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
One even reduced bike riding to - BR

 

[LRitz]

People would rather skip over that fact, which kinda makes any of their arguments / discussions before that time irrelevant IMO

Paul Savage also had a perfect view of anyone going up that fire trail. He heard children playing coming from the FGM's hose after 09:02 while eating his toast & drinking his tea on his front porch. This IMO was when the kids were riding their bikes on the driveway.

The photos were requested to be looked at by Swift ( bio dad lawyer at the time ) on the 2/9/2019 & the Coroner & Craddock agreed & than what do you know, the coroner releases 5 more photos showing the white on the back of William's Spider-man suit etc on the 12/9/2019 ( 5yr anniversary) - why would she do that if she thought the photos still may have had an incorrect timestamp??......I suggest to you that she knew they were correct when she released the 2nd lot of photos.

If nothing happened before 9:37 the time of the last photo - Why are there errors and inconsistencies in the statements of what happened before this. Yes, I can see you could say FF left about 9 when he actually left at 8:50, or breakfast was for 20 minutes or 30 minutes and it was a bit longer and be slightly off.

But there are major problems and inconsistencies. FM does not say they rode their bikes after breakfast. She says FD is inside "doing some stuff" with FGM. If FM plays outside with William after breakfast that is only one child playing not children. FM says this is when she grazed her hand. If they finish breakfast and then make phone call to Bill the repair man an 9:05 and are playing for 10 minutes with just William, then FD joins them outside it is 9:15. FM specifically says this is when both children playing out the front on the grass, climbing trees, playing monster, spinning. This activities could take 10 minutes which leaves no time to ride the bikes before they are back on the deck to start drawing.

FGM does not say she did "stuff" with FD. She does not say she watched the kids play or ride their bikes. She says she did the dishes. She still has her slippers on at 9:37. Did she go down the drive way in her slippers.

You don't know that PS had a perfect view of the fire trail all morning.

 

[Wallace52]

Some are and some aren't as I understand it. Also since she is no longer in their 'care', does her protection continue to extend to them?

Yes. It will continue indefinitely.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

If nothing happened before 9:37 the time of the last photo - Why are there errors and inconsistencies in the statements of what happened before this. Yes, I can see you could say FF left about 9 when he actually left at 8:50, or breakfast was for 20 minutes or 30 minutes and it was a bit longer and be slightly off.

But there are major problems and inconsistencies. FM does not say they rode their bikes after breakfast. She says FD is inside "doing some stuff" with FGM. If FM plays outside with William after breakfast that is only one child playing not children. FM says this is when she grazed her hand. If they finish breakfast and then make phone call to Bill the repair man an 9:05 and are playing for 10 minutes with just William, then FD joins them outside it is 9:15. FM specifically says this is when both children playing out the front on the grass, climbing trees, playing monster, spinning. This activities could take 10 minutes which leaves no time to ride the bikes before they are back on the deck to start drawing.

FGM does not say she did "stuff" with FD. She does not say she watched the kids play or ride their bikes. She says she did the dishes. She still has her slippers on at 9:37. Did she go down the drive way in her slippers.

You don't know that PS had a perfect view of the fire trail all morning.

Did you hear the evidence given by the FM at the inquest?

The FM said they rode the bikes after the FF left, around 9am or shortly after, the Foster Family's car was not there at the time.

They were inside & outside frequently that morning.

I see no reason that the FGM would not walk on concrete in her slippers, arounf the carport & on the driveway.

 

[truecrimepath]

If nothing happened before 9:37 the time of the last photo - Why are there errors and inconsistencies in the statements of what happened before this. Yes, I can see you could say FF left about 9 when he actually left at 8:50, or breakfast was for 20 minutes or 30 minutes and it was a bit longer and be slightly off.

But there are major problems and inconsistencies. FM does not say they rode their bikes after breakfast. She says FD is inside "doing some stuff" with FGM. If FM plays outside with William after breakfast that is only one child playing not children. FM says this is when she grazed her hand. If they finish breakfast and then make phone call to Bill the repair man an 9:05 and are playing for 10 minutes with just William, then FD joins them outside it is 9:15. FM specifically says this is when both children playing out the front on the grass, climbing trees, playing monster, spinning. This activities could take 10 minutes which leaves no time to ride the bikes before they are back on the deck to start drawing.

FGM does not say she did "stuff" with FD. She does not say she watched the kids play or ride their bikes. She says she did the dishes. She still has her slippers on at 9:37. Did she go down the drive way in her slippers.

You don't know that PS had a perfect view of the fire trail all morning.

If you look at the Wendy Hudson statement, even that version is actually different to what she says in her initial statement. The car journey was not included as you know. How can you forget the drive.

 

[Kurve]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Unless or until the question of the time of the Spiderman images is raised as in dispute through the Coroners inquiry, we need to accept they were taken at around 9.37am.

Strongly suggest we move on.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Have you looked at how it can be done?

Before being so certain read this article. It is one of many on the subject. You may not be aware of the discussion.

Electronic verification of JPEG files is just not reliable. Can't be detected by experts with certainty. Easy to do even without specialist software. The evidence presented so far is that they have verified the photos electronically using EXIF/Metadata.

https://shutter-count.com/cameras/can-exif-data-be-changed-or-faked/

That's why I believe physical verification using light, shadows to verify time and even date, as well as physical attributes of subjects is key to getting this right.

I am yet to see whether the police have actually done this. I have used my skills to do this and I come to the conclusion that the photos were not taken that morning. I would to love to have an expert review to either confirm or refute my work. That's why I have written to the police and the coroner.

As I have said before, if the time is true according to physical examination by experts then I believe William was probably but not certainly abducted. If they have been faked, then William died while in the custody of his foster parents.

The Metadata that the police have used is not going to answer that question with certainty. They need to take it further and prove it one way or another.

Mr Craddock has spoken about people contacting them & wasting their time

 

[stormbird]

No she didn't. She was the only one home. She also said that the FM knocked on the door of #35 ( the FM did not remember this ) and no one answered.

alwaysintrigued, did Anne Maree alert any neighbours other than Paul Savage at No. 43 before the first police officer arrived at 11:06am? I've read that the man who was mowing the lawn - Shannon at No. 12 - saw that first police car drive past and asked Anne Maree what was going on, but had she talked to other neighbours before that? Thanks again.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

If you look at the Wendy Hudson statement, even that version is actually different to what she says in her initial statement. The car journey was not included as you know. How can you forget the drive. It is not plausible. Nothing to do with PTSD.

The business about seeing the two phantom cars from the driveway while riding bikes is also interesting. 'Mummy who is that in the car'. Can you actually even see that spot from the driveway, through the trees. I am currently assessing this.

I'll save you the time
Incorrect, she was talking about a car she saw turn into the Miller's ( nextdoor ) , reverse out & drive off.

 

[LRitz]

Than that would be on the FF's log of received calls, which the police & the Coroner has.

Yep Mr Crabb
So you know more than the Police, the Coroner & the NSW CC. I don't think so.
Not true, the FM spoke about the bike riding ( at length ) in her evidence in March 2019. The WWT podcasts did not start till June 2019.
Doesn't need to be proven to the public, needs to be proven to the Coroner. It has been proven to the public thou as it's been stated as a fact / certainty at the inquest both by Mr Craddock & Sophie Callan ( NSW CC )

FF could have had a burner phone. Possible.
FF received other calls after his work call. I would guess/hope police followed them all up.

Bike riding evidence in 2019! I would think your best recall is closer to the incident rather than 4 years later.
I don't think there was enough time between end of breakfast, the phone call to the repair man, playing with William, hurting her hand, coming back inside to show FGM her hand, then playing spinning monsters etc, and be back on the deck by 9:30. So when was the other possible time for bike ride. The kids have been up early, wouldn't you have breakfast before going outside and playing. So IMO, it is possible there was no bike ride.

 

[alwaysintrigued]

alwaysintrigued, did Anne Maree alert any neighbours other than Paul Savage at No. 43 before the first police officer arrived at 11:06am? I've read that the man who was mowing the lawn - Shannon at No. 12 - saw that first police car drive past and asked Anne Maree what was going on, but had she talked to other neighbours before that? Thanks again.

From her testimony:

Anne Maree, after coming into first contact with the FM, went down towards Batar Creek Rd as it was the biggest danger. She walked down looking Lt to Rt at each property, walked around bus stop.

FFC pointed to where William went missing from ( FGM's house) Anne Maree went back up Benaroon Drive, went to PS @ # 43, went to Crabbs @ # 51 & saw FFC knocking on # 35's door.

Anne Maree back down Benaroon Drive with FM to Lyndene Heslop's house # 9 ( on corner of Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd ) Saw man on yellow ride on mower, he asked if everything was OK , told little boy in a spider-man suit missing, put his mower away & he & his dogs walked up the street.

Hope that helps

 

[passball]

Did William have a reaction to the scrambled eggs? Asthma?

The FGM pointing to the deck.

'This is where it all happened'

 

[Earls Smother]

No she didn't. She was the only one home. She also said that the FM knocked on the door of #35 ( the FM did not remember this ) and no one answered.

But if the FM couldn't remember this, surely that's an indication she's killed someone?

 

[alwaysintrigued]

FF could have had a burner phone. Possible.
FF received other calls after his work call. I would guess/hope police followed them all up.

Bike riding evidence in 2019! I would think your best recall is closer to the incident rather than 4 years later.
I don't think there was enough time between end of breakfast, the phone call to the repair man, playing with William, hurting her hand, coming back inside to show FGM her hand, then playing spinning monsters etc, and be back on the deck by 9:30. So when was the other possible time for bike ride. The kids have been up early, wouldn't you have breakfast before going outside and playing. So IMO, it is possible there was no bike ride.

I believe they had breakfast before the bike riding.

 

[LRitz]

Did you hear the evidence given by the FM at the inquest?

The FM said they rode the bikes after the FF left, around 9am or shortly after, the Foster Family's car was not there at the time.

They were inside & outside frequently that morning.

I see no reason that the FGM would not walk on concrete in her slippers, arounf the carport & on the driveway.

Why not say this in 2014 in their first statements. So are the first statements totally inaccurate. They had lots off time between Sept 2014 and the inquest to change the story. There is no independent evidence of the kids on bikes.

What did the FGM say at the inquest , or did she not attend.

See my other post about activities, injuries , washing up, phone calls between 9 and 9:30 they were pretty busy. Or did mummy monsters (very specific activity) not happen or was this before breakfast?

What time did FF leave the house? 8:00, or after 9:00 and running late, or 9 ish, or before the Cctv at the tennis club.

 

[Earls Smother]

I'll save you the time
Incorrect, she was talking about a car she saw turn into the Miller's ( nextdoor ) , reverse out & drive off.

But no unknown cars have been down Benaroon ever have they?

 

[alwaysintrigued]

Why not say this in 2014 in their first statements. So are the first statements totally inaccurate. They had lots off time between Sept 2014 and the inquest to change the story. There is no independent evidence of the kids on bikes.

What did the FGM say at the inquest , or did she not attend.

See my other post about activities, injuries , washing up, phone calls between 9 and 9:30 they were pretty busy. Or did mummy monsters (very specific activity) not happen or was this before breakfast?

What time did FF leave the house? 8:00, or after 9:00 and running late, or 9 ish, or before the Cctv at the tennis club.

So you don't know of the FGM was at the inquest or what time the FF left after all these years?

Is it your view that if no one saw anything it didn't happen?

And yes I do believe those thing could have happened in that time frame as all activities were of a short duration IMO

 

[LRitz]

I believe they had breakfast before the bike riding.

Happy that is your opinion.
My opinion is that there is no proof of bike riding . IMO it is possible it did not happen before or after breakfast.
Can you say how you fit the activities in between breakfast and playing on deck.

 

[gymjam]

Could FM have driven away from the house to make a phone call.

Maybe went there for better reception. How bad was the mobile reception at the FGM's house? FF claims the reason he went to Lakewood to make his work call is to get better reception. The 000 call is with the FGM's landline. She could have used another phone, or just changed SIM cards in her phone so it would not show up on her phone records. She then changes SIM back, and throws the burner sim out of the car. And it is never found. Needle in a haystack.

The question is why make a call that she does not want tracked? Possible IMO, to contact FF and check in on him and find out his expected return time.

Even if the SIM card is changed the IMEI number is still available to tele records. This is a unique identifier connected to each mobile phone made. Official telephone records that police obtain from telcos contain lots more information than the everyday telephone record that we get.

There were quite a few media photos published in the immediate aftermath of 12/9/2014 that showed people with mobile phones to their ears; and there is a photo of the foster father looking at a mobile phone whilst he is sitting in the back of one of the police scene control vans in the bottom driveway of 48. He could be looking at photos on the phone or he could be talking whilst looking directly at the screen of the phone or he could have been on a video call.

 

[31550]

From her testimony:

Anne Maree, after coming into first contact with the FM, went down towards Batar Creek Rd as it was the biggest danger. She walked down looking Lt to Rt at each property, walked around bus stop.

FFC pointed to where William went missing from ( FGM's house) Anne Maree went back up Benaroon Drive, went to PS @ # 43, went to Crabbs @ # 51 & saw FFC knocking on # 35's door.

Anne Maree back down Benaroon Drive with FM to Lyndene Heslop's house # 9 ( on corner of Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd ) Saw man on yellow ride on mower, he asked if everything was OK , told little boy in a spider-man suit missing, put his mower away & he & his dogs walked up the street.

Hope that helps

Did Anne Maree mention the FM driving FGMs car any time between when she first met her and when Anne Maree went back down to Lydene Heslops house WITH FM? Because this is when FM had previously said she took the drive. (And how it is described in Overington's book). There seems to have been an awful lot of walking and driving up and down Benaroon drive by the FM in such a very short timeframe that nobody saw.

 

[LRitz]

So you don't know of the FGM was at the inquest or what time the FF left after all these years?

Is it your view that if no one saw anything it didn't happen?

And yes I do believe those thing could have happened in that time frame as all activities were of a short duration IMO

No I did not go to inquest or listen to hours of podcasts. If it was not seen it was not witnessed, that is, there is no proof, is all I'm saying. Yes it is possible FGM had dementia, yes it is possible that they rode the bikes, yes it is possible William was run over by the postie.

FGM walkthrough : FF left at 8:00, allegedly
FM statement : FF left after 9:00, he was running late.allegedly
FF walkthrough: left 9ish. allegedly
CCTV at tennis club has him there before 9:00

So do you know when FF left FGM house, after all these years? Please let us know.

 

[jason_recliner]

FF could have had a burner phone. Possible.
FF received other calls after his work call. I would guess/hope police followed them all up.

Bike riding evidence in 2019! I would think your best recall is closer to the incident rather than 4 years later.
I don't think there was enough time between end of breakfast, the phone call to the repair man, playing with William, hurting her hand, coming back inside to show FGM her hand, then playing spinning monsters etc, and be back on the deck by 9:30. So when was the other possible time for bike ride. The kids have been up early, wouldn't you have breakfast before going outside and playing. So IMO, it is possible there was no bike ride.

Do you have a "burner phone"? Do you know anybody with a "burner phone"?

 

[Underarrest_]

Im not sure why there’s questions about where FM is said to have driven and placed William. The police have said they have a brief of evidence alleging FM disposed of William around BCR/CCR and this is where they did the big dig. FM is not disputing she drove here.
Surely the police have looked into other options re phone data/witnesses/other to prepare their brief.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The children heard playing is not an eye witness of William. As mentioned previously, it could have been just one child, FD who was playing.
Possible but not certain.
No one, as far as I know, saw William that morning, other than the family.

Yes agreed. That was why I was interested in the use of plural. By no means certain and less so because not seen but it has a place in determining POL especially because it is independent testimony

 

[gymjam]

And yet the body hasn't been found in their short timeline at the location they chose. The logical reason is they placed the body further afield....and time becomes a factor. No cadaver. No forensics. Not there. I don't buy feral animals at all..

What I KNOW is that EXIF can be edited and not detected..I DON'T KNOW what tests were performed to satisfy that time..because I don't know and until I do I don't accept anything under control of FM and capable of manipulation. That is sound evidence assesment not nonsensical.

Personally I think anyone who blindly accepts evidence other than on the hierarchy I outlined is looking to get the answer SFR has .....a wrong one. Indeed to then double down and characterise the logic as nonsensical is ignorance.

I'm not asking you to engage me. I couldn't give a..... But I post for the benefit of the thread in entirety not YOU.

Then there is something very critical to consider and it should probably be referred to as a what if.

What if the created times were actually the times? But then I have the following question continually circling in my mind and that is:

What would be the reason someone would want to prove that they were with William (his foster grandmother and his biological sister) and they were all alive and present and positioned on the deck at 48 Benaroon Drive in Kendall at the times between 9.37 and 9.39 on 12/9/2014 when it could be proven (likely) beyond doubt (by cctv images captured in Lakewood and later verified by police investigators) that the foster father was in the Lakewood location at these times and Lakewood was approximately 10 kilometers away?

 

[Underarrest_]

Then there is something very critical to consider and it should probably be referred to as a what if.

What if the created times were actually the times? But then I have the following question continually circling in my mind and that is:

What would be the reason someone would want to prove that they were with William (his foster grandmother and his biological sister) and they were all alive and present and positioned on the deck at 48 Benaroon Drive in Kendall at the times between 9.37 and 9.39 on 12/9/2014 when it could be proven (likely) beyond doubt (by cctv images captured in Lakewood and later verified by police investigators) that the foster father was in the Lakewood location at these times and Lakewood was approximately 10 kilometers away?

Totally agree, it’s a possibility.